2 Years Lifting. Minimal Success

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

I am about to start Wendler, using the big but boring option.

I have a few questions about it if that is OK?

  1. Will wendler help me this narrow shoulders and rear shoulders looking like they go in rather than stick out like a normal shoulder.?

  2. The routine looks too easy, for example I cant go all the way down with perfect for am 70KG on a bench press but 55KG is super easy, most of the sets seem too easy to be working me properly.?

  3. Can I swap back squat for front squat as I have problems with back squats.?

4.If you are overweight with little muscle should I stay on a clean bulk or reduce calories and start doing moderate cardio?

  1. Is it better to use a belt or just lift raw and when I bench should i use powerlifting form or elbows out, if getting bigger is my primary goal?
2

Based on 1rm’s

Real 1RM	Wender's Training Max

Military Press 1?×?60 1?×?54
Bench Press 1?×?85 1?×?76.5
Squat 1?×?80 1?×?72
Deadlift 1?×?125 1?×?112.5

Week 1
military press
5?×?25 [2.5]
5?×?30 [5]
3?×?35 [5,2.5]
5?×?40 [10]
5?×?45 [10,2.5]
5 ?×?50 [10,5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?40 [10]
10?×?35 [5,2.5]
10?×?35 [5,2.5]
chin-ups
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?

deadlift
5?×?45 [10,2.5]
5?×?60 [10,5,5]
3?×?70 [25]
5?×?75 [25,2.5]
5?×?85 [25,5,2.5]
5 ?×?100 [35,5]
10?×?85 [25,5,2.5]
10?×?85 [25,5,2.5]
10?×?75 [25,2.5]
10?×?70 [25]
10?×?70 [25]
hanging leg raise
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?

bench press
5?×?35 [5,2.5]
5?×?40 [10]
3?×?50 [10,5]
5?×?50 [10,5]
5?×?60 [10,5,5]
5 ?×?70 [25]
10?×?60 [10,5,5]
10?×?60 [10,5,5]
10?×?50 [10,5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
dumbell row
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?

squat
5?×?30 [5]
5?×?40 [10]
3?×?45 [10,2.5]
5?×?50 [10,5]
5?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
5 ?×?65 [10,5,5,2.5]
10?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
10?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
10?×?50 [10,5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
leg curl
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
Week 2
military press
5?×?25 [2.5]
5?×?30 [5]
3?×?35 [5,2.5]
3?×?40 [10]
3?×?45 [10,2.5]
3 ?×?50 [10,5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?40 [10]
10?×?35 [5,2.5]
10?×?35 [5,2.5]
chin-ups
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?

deadlift
5?×?45 [10,2.5]
5?×?60 [10,5,5]
3?×?70 [25]
3?×?80 [25,5]
3?×?90 [35]
3 ?×?105 [35,5,2.5]
10?×?85 [25,5,2.5]
10?×?85 [25,5,2.5]
10?×?75 [25,2.5]
10?×?70 [25]
10?×?70 [25]
hanging leg raise
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?

bench press
5?×?35 [5,2.5]
5?×?40 [10]
3?×?50 [10,5]
3?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
3?×?65 [10,5,5,2.5]
3 ?×?70 [25]
10?×?60 [10,5,5]
10?×?60 [10,5,5]
10?×?50 [10,5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
dumbell row
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?

squat
5?×?30 [5]
5?×?40 [10]
3?×?45 [10,2.5]
3?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
3?×?60 [10,5,5]
3 ?×?65 [10,5,5,2.5]
10?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
10?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
10?×?50 [10,5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
leg curl
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
Week 3
military press
5?×?25 [2.5]
5?×?30 [5]
3?×?35 [5,2.5]
5?×?45 [10,2.5]
3?×?50 [10,5]
1 ?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?40 [10]
10?×?35 [5,2.5]
10?×?35 [5,2.5]
chin-ups
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?

deadlift
5?×?45 [10,2.5]
5?×?60 [10,5,5]
3?×?70 [25]
5?×?85 [25,5,2.5]
3?×?100 [35,5]
1 ?×?110 [45]
10?×?85 [25,5,2.5]
10?×?85 [25,5,2.5]
10?×?75 [25,2.5]
10?×?70 [25]
10?×?70 [25]
hanging leg raise
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?

bench press
5?×?35 [5,2.5]
5?×?40 [10]
3?×?50 [10,5]
5?×?60 [10,5,5]
3?×?70 [25]
1 ?×?75 [25,2.5]
10?×?60 [10,5,5]
10?×?60 [10,5,5]
10?×?50 [10,5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
dumbell row
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?

squat
5?×?30 [5]
5?×?40 [10]
3?×?45 [10,2.5]
5?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
3?×?65 [10,5,5,2.5]
1 ?×?70 [25]
10?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
10?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
10?×?50 [10,5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
leg curl
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
Week 4
military press
5?×?25 [2.5]
5?×?30 [5]
5?×?35 [5,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?40 [10]
10?×?35 [5,2.5]
10?×?35 [5,2.5]
chin-ups
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?

deadlift
5?×?45 [10,2.5]
5?×?60 [10,5,5]
5?×?70 [25]
10?×?85 [25,5,2.5]
10?×?85 [25,5,2.5]
10?×?75 [25,2.5]
10?×?70 [25]
10?×?70 [25]
hanging leg raise
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?
15?×?

bench press
5?×?35 [5,2.5]
5?×?40 [10]
5?×?50 [10,5]
10?×?60 [10,5,5]
10?×?60 [10,5,5]
10?×?50 [10,5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
dumbell row
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?

squat
5?×?30 [5]
5?×?40 [10]
5?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
10?×?55 [10,5,2.5]
10?×?50 [10,5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
10?×?45 [10,2.5]
leg curl
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?
10?×?

Would it be worth taking away leg curl and throwing in dips instead as my arms are puny and there seems to be nothing to make them grow as he program is?

I will also be trying front squats rather than back squats, should I lower the squat 1rm guesstimate seein as front squat might be a bot more taxing?

3

[quote]wasd wrote:

  1. Will wendler help me this narrow shoulders and rear shoulders looking like they go in rather than stick out like a normal shoulder.?[/quote]
    Yes, but a program with some specific medial and rear delt work might be better.

[quote]
2. The routine looks too easy, for example I cant go all the way down with perfect for am 70KG on a bench press but 55KG is super easy, most of the sets seem too easy to be working me properly.?[/quote]
If done with consistency and intensity for long enough it progresses.

[quote]
3. Can I swap back squat for front squat as I have problems with back squats.?[/quote]
Not if you want the same results

[quote]
4.If you are overweight with little muscle should I stay on a clean bulk or reduce calories and start doing moderate cardio?[/quote]
Stay eating mainteneance of slightly higher. As you gain muscle your current level of body fat will become a lower percent of your overall body composition. This will make you look leaner over time.

[quote]
5. Is it better to use a belt or just lift raw and when I bench should i use powerlifting form or elbows out, if getting bigger is my primary goal?[/quote]
Since the main lifts are power lifting based I would use power lifting form for them and wear a belt for squats, deads, and shoulder pressing.

4

^ Thank you for the answers big man. I was thinking the same about the form too but I have been watching some rippetoe videos online and He suggests not lifting with powerlifting form if your goal is stimulating hypertrophy on the bench.

5

You didn’t really mention your lifting goals in general, but if hypertrophy is your biggest concern, rather than strength, Wendler’s program might not be your best option. 5/3/1 is strength-based first. That being said, the boring but big assistance work is hypertrophy-oriented. Most assistance work Wendler prescribes is similar to what you’d find in a typical bodybuilding split (high rep sets).

My suggestion would be to use powerlifting form (leg drive, strong arch) on your 5/3/1 sets on the bench press. Then drop the weight enough that you can take the arch down, reduce the leg drive, flare the elbows a bit, and bring the bar closer to mid chest than low chest, and still get 5 sets of 10.

6

[quote]wasd wrote:
^ Thank you for the answers big man. I was thinking the same about the form too but I have been watching some rippetoe videos online and He suggests not lifting with powerlifting form if your goal is stimulating hypertrophy on the bench. [/quote]
Very true but if your goal is strictly hypertrophy you could pick a different program all together.

Lifting high percentages of your 1RM with elbows at 90 degrees(pointing straight out) can put a lot of stress on your rotator cuffs. Truth be told you can stimulate the pecs more by doing dumbbell press over barbell, again if hypertrophy is numeral uno.

7

^

Hey man, yeah I thought about doing Arnolds beginner workouts seeing as I am so weak and pretty fatso. Everyone on another site I frequent just shouts do wendler or 5x5 though so I figured I would do wendler as when I did 5x5 for a few months I gained no muscle at all and my strength gains while good did not translate to higher volume workouts and I looked shite and probably worse than when I started it.

8

Program for hypertrophy

9

anyone?

10

Are you seriously so impatient that you have to bump this thread every 30 minutes? If you had spent 5 minutes searching this site you could have found a program. I have a feeling you’re not making progress in the gym because your attitude sucks.

Here’s what I’m doing. The routine on the first page. No modifications, just the routine as is. I would suggest reading through the whole thread. Do This Routine Instead of That Dumb One - Competitive Bodybuilding - Forums - T Nation

If you want to get strong, do 5/3/1. If you want to get bigger, do this. If you eat well and dedicate yourself to a great program (like either of these), you are guaranteed to get results. If you don’t, you need to look at yourself, not the program. #realtalk

11

cheers dude. The reason I am bumping is because my gym has been closed for refurb and it opens tommorow and I have no schedule. Gym time for me is erly morning so needed a pointer.

Also I don’t have a hack squat or other machines on that list?
No lying leg curl either or calf machine but have a sit up one, would that be OK?

12

don’t need a machine.

do what you can, there’s always an answer.

13

Whatever you do, you should do it for 3 months at least and see what happens.

If you don’t like the results, then switch.

No one can assess your future gains from 5/3/1 BBB or any other routine. 5/3/1 will give you progress on strength which is always valuable. You won’t lose much time.

BB routines like the “do this routine instead…” are good too but they focus on a different goal : hypertrophy and symetry.

14

Thanks guys this helped a lot. On the other forum they call you a retard if you say your training to look good and ss or 531 are the only thing you should do till your relatively big.

I am going to do this routine for a year along with my clean bulk. may be back then to ask for advice.

15

Wednesday- Legs (2-3 second negatives recommended on all exercises)

Lying leg curls - 4x 6-8 (2)
RDL’s - 4x 8-10 (1)
Leg press - 4x8-10 (I like doing these before squats to help loosen up the hips) (2)
Squats or Front squats - 3x 8-10 (1)
Hack Squats (close stance) - 3x 8-10 (2)

on the program squats come near the end after lots of other sets, wont this exhaust my legs and make my squats shit?

16

[quote]wasd wrote:

on the program squats come near the end after lots of other sets, wont this exhaust my legs and make my squats shit?[/quote]

yea sort of. for awhile at least. I’ll share my experience with this program, specifically this workout.

This was extraordinarily difficult for me to get through. By the time I got to squats, I was completely gassed, my conditioning just wasn’t good enough. I’ve squatted 345 max before, and I felt like I could barely do 135 the first time I did this. Prior to doing this program, I spent the last 2 years doing 5 3 1.

It gets better every week. My conditioning improved significantly by about week 3 and 4. Last Wednesday, I did the RDL’s up to 325, Leg press up to 19 plates, and still was able to work up to 225 on my last squat set, followed by 5 plates on the hack squat.

Your first time you do this you’ll want to vomit. By week 6, you’ll be killing it.

Good luck :slight_smile:

17

OK been looking for two hours wtf is a standing cable x

18

standing cable curl probably

19

sorry curl was from math, it’s cross over. First link on google. You look like an X when you do it

20

By the way I have an elbow injury from motorcycle accident which means I can’t do skullcrushers, I do this instead: