Yeah I get it. The works outs are intense. I’m not so worried about that. My area of inquire is more around the parts outside of the gym. Recovery.
I asked for advice before starting my latest programme - and Pwnisher told me “this is all about recovery”. And I thought I had that bit licked. I was wrong. And its had a negative effect on this block of training. Not hugely. But enough for me to want to get it right this time out.
And to get it right I can’t compromise.
Reviving this thread since I just started Deepwater and I had a few questions for folks that ran it before @T3hPwnisher @flappinit:
For point 1, I ran straight into each program. I didn’t feel a deload was necessary AND, being completely transparent here, I was afraid (fear is the right emotion to use here) that, were I to deload, I’d not actually come back to the program after having that week off. I had to just keep the misery rolling.
2: I used a training max and kept it the same for the first 2 blocks. I didn’t feel a need to increase it to make things more challenging, and ACTUALLY only used 75% instead of 80% for the intermediate block.
3: EAT EAT EAT. It is going to be an uncomfortable amount of eating.
Thanks! Quick response is appreciated.
You can go into each program, I think it’s pretty subjective. There’s a video of Jon that @T3hPwnisher posted where he says you can keep running DW Beginner over and over too. I ran it once, then my second time I did a hybrid where I had some sets to all-out failure,
Just finding this glorious thread discussing Deep Water.
I am at the tail end of my second round of BTM. Absolutely love it and the simplicity.
Ive done nearly every 531 program under the sun and this one is ELITE.
I ran into Deep water, no pun while downloading the spreadsheet of Mythical Mass on Lift Vault. I then began digging deeper into where it came from.
Curious as to how people still feel about this program, if anyone is still running and any advise in hindsight.
I plan on starting it in two weeks time. My biggest question is, food.
I am a carb guy and have been running high carb low fat for a while now. I do look more soft than Id like to at 6’4" 220 lbs. I am sub 20% bf and obviously want to look sharper for the summer months.
I may run the diet listed in the EBOOK, however this would be a huge shift in nutrients, what are the thoughts here? I’ve been eating nothing but Chicken Breast and 96/4 beef for 3-4 months now with fats coming from grass fed butter and yolks only.
When I do things I like to do it 100%. Should I give the low carb approach a shot? And follow his 200 lb diet to a T? My metabolism is OKAY.
Conventional knowledge would say to carb cycle. A lot of experts say to load up on carbs, especially with crazy volume or intensity, once protein gets passed a certain point doesn’t it just convert into energy anyways? (overpriced carbs).
I am still willing to give this a shot and ignore everything I have learned over the last 15 years of training. At the very least a brutal experiment for 12 weeks.
A lot of the guys on this thread have some great posts. Thanks for the good content.
Hey dude!
I’m the guy that compiled the “Mythical Mass” composition of programs.
Deep Water is still absolutely incredible.
Regarding your question of the food: it’s absolutely worth taking on the challenge of flipping your nutritional paradigm here. There is a LOT to learn from it.
I actually eat even FEWER carbs now than I did during my Deep Water runs, as I was still getting in quite a few with incidental carbs through nut butters/nuts, whereas now I consume only animal foods outside of 1 meal a week with carbs. I’m following Vince Gironda’s “Maximum Definition Diet”, which asks for a carb meal every 3-4 days, but I keep it at once a week.
You’ll learn a LOT of you dive fully into Deep Water.
Awesome man! It’s funny I downloaded that not knowing it was you but read a lot of your earlier posts. You put out great shit man. Thank you! I’ll give this diet switch a shot. But like you I like the idea of one or two high carb meals a week. I wanna push numbers but also wanna look sharp and not flat.
Pushing through the second round of btm. First round was conservative. This one especially after an injury that put me out for 2-3 weeks is daunting with real training maxes. But I love it.
I’m all for a challenge excited to get into deep water.
To clarify: I DON’T like this idea: it’s just a requirement of the diet I am following. I prefer no carbs when possible
Really glad it is working out for you dude! Enjoy Deep Water.
Well fuck the carbs then. I’ll dive in.
Thanks brotha.
Hey man, I ran beginners and intermediate twice and a modified version of my own creation once.
Only advice from me is to eat as much as you possibly can. I was fairly strict with the diet, maybe 85-90% adherence and I was having a hard time keeping up with recovery. I logged everything extensively in my log, including food if you care to go back and look through it.
This is the first run through. Second one starts around post 1800 ish I believe.
Edit
Edit 2
And another one
I went somewhat low carb, not sure i noticed a massive difference, you’re going to be eating a lot any which way you do this.
I apparently ran this over 2 years ago, still haunts me
Hell yeah man, thank you for sharing this. I am looking forward to it. I will try to keep a log on here when I can, maybe a review after every two weeks or so. Keep myself motivated.
Solid lifts as well, what are you running for a 531 template?
Brutal, did you swap out exercises?
I might start adhering to the diet a few weeks early to try and adapt before day 1 begins. But I am still running BTM, which is gnarly in its own ways.
Heck, the dozen eggs and 1.5lbs of ground beef a day are already getting you pretty close.
YUP! @T3hPwnisher I was doing 2-3 lbs of meat and about a half dozen eggs, a ton of rice as well. Talk about a great program for size, the pump on Chin and Dip volume day was unreal.
For Deep Water Ill be following the diet listed closely to see how my body reacts to low-no carbs. I would like to look sharper so I may throw in a carb day here and there, IF I feel I need the refill.
Currently suffering through BTM week 6, put am likely going to roll right into DW on Monday or Tuesday. I usually only take deloads when I lose all motivation due to fatigue. This week its meat fruit and eggs with some added monos. Next week Ill pull the fruit out.
I do have a few questions, I read through your extensive review with added cardio @T3hPwnisher on DW.
Would you recommend anything further than what is listed in the program on recovery days for cardio?..20 minutes steady state. I have been doing 30 minutes on most off days through BTM and some sled work, usually a long walk in the sunshine if possible (this helps maintain leanness when pushing food). Ill throw in some light stretching and agile 8 if Im feeling froggy. Sometimes Ill throw in push ups. Saturday morning I typically spar but Ill be back working weekends all summer. I would otherwise likely lean into let myself get used to the GVT style of training. The 20 rep Friday widowmakers have me finding myself and pushing past 20 reps since reading this, trying to set prs weekly. Its built a good understanding of the philosophy behind DW.
Next would be that I do not have 1rm for Cleans and Pulls, CG or Incline. Should I just try and establish these on week 1? Maybe workup to a heavy 3RM? Also what should I be using for Row and Clean weights on the working sets?
Ill be following the recommended diet for a 200 Lb lifter, except I dropped the egg intake to 12, and upped the meat intake to 1lb on each of those two meals. So in total Ill be at 12 eggs and 2 lbs of meat.
When 1lb or 3/4lb meat is listed is this pre cooked measured or post? I counted calories for years but found myself getting completely addicted to it so I’ve tapered off of that and just focus on quantity and hitting my protein goals. For this ill be pushing 330 grams of protein a day.
A quick and dirty summary for credibility sake:
35 YO 6’4" 225lb (15%) almost 20 years in the gym. I flip back and forth into and out of the SBD world. Never was built for this but always said fuck it Ill do it anyways.
Current #'s
Ass to grass Squat 1RM: 330: All time PR 425 parallel.
Deadlift: 555: All time PR 617 in Comp.
Bench: 275: All time 285.
All the PRs were set full natty status, currently running low dose test, which has really improved my recovery and physique.
All PRs were hit when I was over 230. Likely could fill a 300 lb frame at my height but never had the genetics or the desire to push gear.
I expect to shed some fat on this program and maybe maintain or build some muscle due to its intensity.
Hey man, I am traveling and without a computer but will try to rapid fire
You will need a 1rm for cleans for intermediate. For anything that isn’t 10x10, just make them double progression worksets.
General activity is a great idea for recovery. I wouldn’t try to do additional hard conditioning.
Jon uses cooked weight when he tracks stuff.
Use current PRs, rather than lifetime ones.
Weeks 1 and 2 will seem easy. They NEED to be, because week 5 and 6 will be half as much rest. It’s going to be brutal.
Awesome thanks brotha! And yes I shared lifetimes for Ego sake lmao.
Cooked weight is good to know that will make a difference for sure.
Double progression meaning workup to a 10rm or so?
Also looking at subbing in Reverse Hypers for Back Extension as I am extremely weak on those.
Double progression meaning workup to a 10rm or so?
Also looking at subbing in Reverse Hypers for Back Extension as I am extremely weak on those.
Also been running strict Squat, Bench, Dead, Press for a good 6 months -year or so, should I switch to some sort of variations instead or keep grinding away?
No. Double progression in the traditional meaning of it.
I wouldn’t personally. One is closed chain while one is open chain. The extensions work in the circuit they are designed in.
For Deep Water, first run through, I would run as laid out. Same with any first time program. See how it works first before trying to change it.