Some guys will… Palumbo for example is fairly open about drug talk and there are rumors of Hany, Farrah etc but who knows what’s truth and what’s just rumor. I asked Shelby if he saw benefit over using “help” in the lean mass phase vs diet down phase and he left it pretty vague and made it a personal choice saying both had benefits.
When it comes to pre contest and particularly the last week or so when those things matter he may have more of a say on it but I wouldn’t expect guidance on dosages. I’m sure he or whoever you consult with would answer that ahead of time to let you know what to expect.
I recently started TRT and asked Shelby if I would have any pain from my inject, he said probably not… that’s about as drug heavy as our conversations have got haha.
Yeah, I know Farrah is very involved in the ‘chemical’ aspect of contest prep (Milos as well I believe), whereas guys like Shelby or others that work with natural as well as assisted athletes tend to address the commonalities, ie. diet, training and cardio.
S
Ok, thanks. I’m not really concerned about the AAS part, as I would just use test for a precontest diet, I don’t really want to get more involved than that and be on a boatload of stuff for my first show. I’d definitely be more interested in the fat burning type things such as clen, T3, etc. as I’m not too knowledgeable in that area and I assume the conditioning that assisted athletes achieve is in part to do that area of supplementation.
I wouldn’t trust a word of advice from half of the actual AAS drug guru’s out there to be honest, haha. If you just keep tabs on Bushy,Bill Roberts and some of Dante’s stuff I think you’re golden in that area.
Hypothetically speaking, I cover all areas of supplementation relevant to a client’s success. If it’s an enhanced athlete competing in an open bodybuilding competition, then obviously certain compounds (i.e. the typical precontest goodies) will need to be addressed.
Much of it will depend on what the client has access to, and is willing to use, of course.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I assume the conditioning that assisted athletes achieve is in part to do that area of supplementation.
quote]
It really depends on the competitor, and his coach. Farrah is pretty well known for relying more heavily on ‘assistance’ to achieve the contest day effect for his clients, and I’ve certainly heard a good amount of negative stories about post-contest ‘issues’ because of this approach. Of course a smart coach will understand and be able to combine the best aspects of both according to the individual. Personally I have to wonder if the better pros out there today excel because they actually understand the training/diet aspect of contest prep (able to hold onto more muscle mass), and therefore rely a bit less on the magic of chemicals for their conditioning on game day.
S
I’ve been asked to weigh in on the cheat meal situation. I’m dieting down for my surgery now, and got my first cheat meal about 7 weeks in to the diet. I managed 4930kcals in an hour, my sister sat and worked it all out for me. The guidelines are “whatever you want, as much as you want, dont go for more than one hour”
I had a large Pizza, loaded with toppings
6 chilli onion rings with BBQ dip
4 slices of garlic bread
175g bag of chocolate M&M’s
A mars bar
A Caramel bar
A small bag of ‘Milkshake Bottles’ jelly sweets.
Thats a cheat meal. I went up about 3-4lbs in weight, which I kept for most of the week, coming in 2lbs lighter on my next update. Havent had another since, but this has been a slow week, so I might get another one.
I dont mind paying the $300 extra for the year, I might do one more year when this ones up, the way I see it is that $100 a month isnt all that much if its helping you get to your goals faster. Or I might fly solo for a bit. We’ll see how things pan out.
Hypothetically speaking I cover all aspects that are relevant to a clients success, and if it’s an enhanced client competing in an open show, then you bet your butt that’s going to include all the normal precontest goodies.
Obviously we’re always limited by what a client has access to, and also is willing to do. But, I leave no stone unturned.
[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
I’ve been asked to weigh in on the cheat meal situation. I’m dieting down for my surgery now, and got my first cheat meal about 7 weeks in to the diet. I managed 4930kcals in an hour, my sister sat and worked it all out for me. The guidelines are “whatever you want, as much as you want, dont go for more than one hour”
I had a large Pizza, loaded with toppings
6 chilli onion rings with BBQ dip
4 slices of garlic bread
175g bag of chocolate M&M’s
A mars bar
A Caramel bar
A small bag of ‘Milkshake Bottles’ jelly sweets.
Thats a cheat meal. I went up about 3-4lbs in weight, which I kept for most of the week, coming in 2lbs lighter on my next update. Havent had another since, but this has been a slow week, so I might get another one.
I dont mind paying the $300 extra for the year, I might do one more year when this ones up, the way I see it is that $100 a month isnt all that much if its helping you get to your goals faster. Or I might fly solo for a bit. We’ll see how things pan out. [/quote]
How did you feel after that meal and what did you do? Instant nap?
[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
I had a large Pizza, loaded with toppings
6 chilli onion rings with BBQ dip
4 slices of garlic bread
175g bag of chocolate M&M’s
A mars bar
A Caramel bar
A small bag of ‘Milkshake Bottles’ jelly sweets.
Thats a cheat meal. I went up about 3-4lbs in weight, which I kept for most of the week, coming in 2lbs lighter on my next update. Havent had another since, but this has been a slow week, so I might get another one.
[/quote]
Man, that’s just insane -lol. (tip of the hat to you though!) I find that after dieting for a while, even when I binge, my stomach has usually shrunk considerably, and even before the amount of food reaches levels I would consider ‘excessive’, there is a certain degree of discomfort (pain?) from having your innards stretched in such a manner.
S
Good stuff, thanks for the responses Stu.
[quote]NewDamage wrote:
[quote]Darkane wrote:
but We Figured the HRX bumped my Free Test real high. We got a theory but I won’t go into it unless people want me too.
[/quote]
Just keeping along, I’d be interested to hear more about this if you don’t mind. Thanks for sharing so far and good luck keepin’ on, I understand you must be pretty frustrated at times. Just keep that nose to the grindstone.[/quote]
Sorry, completely missed this.
Basically this is what we figured with the HOT-ROX Extreme, and this is all guesswork - not bashing Biotest is anyway. I just Wish Bill would have returned my IM about this when I asked him a while ago 
This substance: 3,17-dihydroxy-delta-5-etiocholane-7-one diethylcarbonate - Part of the Thermogenic gel compound.
Anyway I did some research and found it was basically 7-oxo with a diethylcarbonate ester attached.
7-oxo is supposed to be a non-converting DHEA, meaning it will not become androgenic in the body. We figured this was indeed the case with me, and I have the salivary panels as reference.
I dropped 80% in testosterone AND DHEA levels once ‘off’ HOT-ROX Extreme for 8 weeks.
Shrug.
[quote]Darkane wrote:
Sorry, completely missed this.
Basically this is what we figured with the HOT-ROX Extreme, and this is all guesswork - not bashing Biotest is anyway. I just Wish Bill would have returned my IM about this when I asked him a while ago
This substance: 3,17-dihydroxy-delta-5-etiocholane-7-one diethylcarbonate - Part of the Thermogenic gel compound.
Anyway I did some research and found it was basically 7-oxo with a diethylcarbonate ester attached.
7-oxo is supposed to be a non-converting DHEA, meaning it will not become androgenic in the body. We figured this was indeed the case with me, and I have the salivary panels as reference.
I dropped 80% in testosterone AND DHEA levels once ‘off’ HOT-ROX Extreme for 8 weeks.
Shrug. [/quote]
Interesting! Thanks, Darkane.
Westcoast and Stu - instantly I went to the toilet and dropped a massive deuce. I had some comfort issues on trying to get to sleep, my belly just swelled up like a balloon, and stayed a little bigger for most of the next day, until after I trained and did cardio, then more or leas back to normal. With the cheat meal being the last meal of the day, I just went straight to sleep. I’ll break 5000 if I get another cheat meal, the savoury items will not change but I’ll prob go for different sweets and as I said, maybe a burger. Just all about satisfying cravings for me.
ME Dinners - the next big thing!
[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
Westcoast and Stu - instantly I went to the toilet and dropped a massive deuce. I had some comfort issues on trying to get to sleep, my belly just swelled up like a balloon, and stayed a little bigger for most of the next day, until after I trained and did cardio, then more or leas back to normal. With the cheat meal being the last meal of the day, I just went straight to sleep. I’ll break 5000 if I get another cheat meal, the savoury items will not change but I’ll prob go for different sweets and as I said, maybe a burger. Just all about satisfying cravings for me.
ME Dinners - the next big thing![/quote]
lol! nice work friend.
I get the shaft on cheat meals. Whatever I want however it must be a ‘normal’ sized meal and no longer than 45minutes.
Just curious but do you guys tweak your workout towards ti better facilitate fat loss or do you let cardio and diet take care of that?
I train the same as always (compounds, lift heavy) but was thinking maybe I should look into adding compounds or following a program like Romans bodycomp blitz or something. Would be good to hear some thoughts on this.
And sidewalkdances, the sound of that cheat hour got me drooling!
Darkane - that sucks amigo! I hope I get another before my surgery as it’s going to be a long time after it before I can train hard enough to warrant one I think. The plan is to diet hard the last three weeks and stay lean during the recovery then blast back with a rebound effect to get things going when I’m back in the gym
I didn’t change my training at all, 5/3/1 with short rest periods and pushing every week for new PR’s. Didn’t change my training max, so have done 2.1 waves with same weights. Have increased assistance where appropriate though.
[quote]cuzimsomoney wrote:
Just curious but do you guys tweak your workout towards ti better facilitate fat loss or do you let cardio and diet take care of that?
I train the same as always (compounds, lift heavy) but was thinking maybe I should look into adding compounds or following a program like Romans bodycomp blitz or something. Would be good to hear some thoughts on this.
[/quote]
Are you working with Shelby?
I didn’t change anything, diet and cardio and to a much smaller degree some supplements will take the fat off. I think those programs have merit, but when it comes down to it the people that display the most impressive package of muscle mass+low body fat(bodybuilders) don’t really train that way outside of maybe Milos’ camp who do giant sets to death lol.
Cool fellas, good to know.
ScottM, Yep working with Shelby and using 5/3/1 with shorter rest periods like Sidewalkdances.
I got emailed Romans free bodycomp blitz program and was thinking of giving it a blast for maybe 6 weeks after a couple cycles of 5/3/1 just to change things up
Darkane - are you doing the VLC/modified keto diet? That might explain why my cheat meal was unlimited, as I’m still cycling my carbs this time round.
[quote]cuzimsomoney wrote:
Just curious but do you guys tweak your workout towards ti better facilitate fat loss or do you let cardio and diet take care of that?
I train the same as always (compounds, lift heavy) but was thinking maybe I should look into adding compounds or following a program like Romans bodycomp blitz or something. Would be good to hear some thoughts on this.
And sidewalkdances, the sound of that cheat hour got me drooling![/quote]
I believe my program will not change when Shelby and I switch to a lean gain period. He’s been handling my training as well.