[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
Darkane - are you doing the VLC/modified keto diet? That might explain why my cheat meal was unlimited, as I’m still cycling my carbs this time round.[/quote]
Yes.
I’m actually cycling Fat now. 2 days pro/fat, 1 day very low fat.
So the low fat day is more a PSMF?
I think that’s why your cheat meals would need to be lower volume, as your metabolism can get stoked on less volume of food. I’m on week 10 now, still got 4 medium carb days and 3 lows. Weight still coming off.
To put that into perspective, when I dieted from October to Jan I was on all low days by week 6 or 7, so my off season added some muscle to really benefit my metabolism. And of course no deviations this time round have helped. I’ve not missed a cardio session, nor have I eaten off diet.
for the pro/fat day what is your meal set up like?
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
for the pro/fat day what is your meal set up like?[/quote]
Not to sure what you mean here. Asking total meals? The caloric split?
[quote]sidewalkdances wrote:
So the low fat day is more a PSMF?
I think that’s why your cheat meals would need to be lower volume, as your metabolism can get stoked on less volume of food. I’m on week 10 now, still got 4 medium carb days and 3 lows. Weight still coming off.
To put that into perspective, when I dieted from October to Jan I was on all low days by week 6 or 7, so my off season added some muscle to really benefit my metabolism. And of course no deviations this time round have helped. I’ve not missed a cardio session, nor have I eaten off diet. [/quote]
Low day is exactly like a PSMF. I did Lyle’s rapid fat loss diet and it’s almost identical. Only difference is the amount of veggies.
[quote]Darkane wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
for the pro/fat day what is your meal set up like?[/quote]
Not to sure what you mean here. Asking total meals? The caloric split?
[/quote]
my bad i was in a rush… yeah like im guessing like six meals, 45 grams protein + 1 TBSP natty PB, then last meal same protein but w/ healthy oils?
im just wondering because right now im on 30 grams carbs a day, and i think they’re getting dropped next week. my first and PWO meal are 15g carbs each and im just curious how the fat is gonna be manipulated
oh, now im up to 60 mins 130 BPM every day if that makes you feel any better
[quote]ShelbyStarnes wrote:
Hypothetically speaking I cover all aspects that are relevant to a clients success, and if it’s an enhanced client competing in an open show, then you bet your butt that’s going to include all the normal precontest goodies.
Obviously we’re always limited by what a client has access to, and also is willing to do. But, I leave no stone unturned. [/quote]
Totally missed this post somehow. Thanks for chiming in Shelby, good to know.
^^ I didn’t notice he posted here either.
Good to have the boss man here in person 
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]Darkane wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
for the pro/fat day what is your meal set up like?[/quote]
Not to sure what you mean here. Asking total meals? The caloric split?
[/quote]
my bad i was in a rush… yeah like im guessing like six meals, 45 grams protein + 1 TBSP natty PB, then last meal same protein but w/ healthy oils?
im just wondering because right now im on 30 grams carbs a day, and i think they’re getting dropped next week. my first and PWO meal are 15g carbs each and im just curious how the fat is gonna be manipulated
oh, now im up to 60 mins 130 BPM every day if that makes you feel any better[/quote]
That is pretty much exactly it.
First and last meals are eggs. Nothing exciting, but effective.
Sent this to shelby too… But here are some results to my blood test i had last week. I really wish i would have taken it before I started dieting though. But these numbers are pretty much as good as you can get. Only thing I could bring up would be HDL to above 60 to get in the optimal range. above 40 is good for men though.
Top round steak once a day FTW!!!
Fasting glucose - 74
Total Cholesterol - 123
HDL - 52
Triglycerides - 42
LDL - 63
LDL/HDL Ratio - 1.21
Chol/HDL Ratio - 2.4
TSH - 2.0
I also read this online. [b]"The normal levels of cholesterol ratios for total cholesterol to HDL should be below 4 as a general rule for both men and women. However a very good ratio is 3.5, excellent is 3.0 and fantastic is 2.6.
If you can get your ratio down between 2.4 and 2.8, you can actually experience a reversal of heart disease. Whereas the normal levels of cholesterol ratios of LDL to HDL should be less than 2.5. And remember that this is the best indicator of risk of heart disease and stroke."[/b]
Even with proper diet from Shelby and abundant cardio my LDL stayed pretty consistent with what it was even on a poor diet, I can assume it’s just a genetic predisposition but I’d like to see if I can improve that number over time with some OTC remedies.
Mine came back (non fasted because I wasn’t instructed to do so…woops). Any ideas on how much that influences this particular test?
Chol 205 mg/dl 0-200
Trig 45 mg/dl 30-150
HDL 66 mg/dl 40-100
Chol/HDL Ratio 3.1 0.0-6.0
LDL(direct) 134 mg/dl 0-130
Ratio is pretty good and all the healthy fats really jacked up my HDL.
Your numbers are VERY good beaul, kudos.
[quote]beaul wrote:
Sent this to shelby too… But here are some results to my blood test i had last week. I really wish i would have taken it before I started dieting though. But these numbers are pretty much as good as you can get. Only thing I could bring up would be HDL to above 60 to get in the optimal range. above 40 is good for men though.
Top round steak once a day FTW!!!
Fasting glucose - 74
Total Cholesterol - 123
HDL - 52
Triglycerides - 42
LDL - 63
LDL/HDL Ratio - 1.21
Chol/HDL Ratio - 2.4
TSH - 2.0
I also read this online. [b]"The normal levels of cholesterol ratios for total cholesterol to HDL should be below 4 as a general rule for both men and women. However a very good ratio is 3.5, excellent is 3.0 and fantastic is 2.6.
If you can get your ratio down between 2.4 and 2.8, you can actually experience a reversal of heart disease. Whereas the normal levels of cholesterol ratios of LDL to HDL should be less than 2.5. And remember that this is the best indicator of risk of heart disease and stroke."[/b]
[/quote]
Very nice. I just had a blood draw a couple weeks ago and landed in the 2.6 for ratio. Last year I was very poliquin inspired and was doing 25-30g Fish oil/day and landed a 2.3.
Food for thought: I’ve been talking to KSman and a ratio this low might not be ideal for figured inspired people like ourselves. Testosterone might not be at it’s potential.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Even with proper diet from Shelby and abundant cardio my LDL stayed pretty consistent with what it was even on a poor diet, I can assume it’s just a genetic predisposition but I’d like to see if I can improve that number over time with some OTC remedies.
Mine came back (non fasted because I wasn’t instructed to do so…woops). Any ideas on how much that influences this particular test?
Chol 205 mg/dl 0-200
Trig 45 mg/dl 30-150
HDL 66 mg/dl 40-100
Chol/HDL Ratio 3.1 0.0-6.0
LDL(direct) 134 mg/dl 0-130
Ratio is pretty good and all the healthy fats really jacked up my HDL.
Your numbers are VERY good beaul, kudos. [/quote]
No idea on the fasted thing. Your HDL level is nice for sure. I do agree though, its definitely a lot to do with genetics. I will get another reading when i am at the end of gaining weight.
Darkane- Yeah, i had thought that as well, too low might not be ideal either. But nothing i can really do about that during a dieting phase. I was reading some things that said too low could cause some reactions, like depression, anxiety, low energy among other things. I suppose we could take protein down a notch and raise fats if it became an issue. Reversing heart disease can’t be bad either though. I wish i would have gotten mine checked when i was doing the anabolic diet during a gaining phase. That would have been very interesting.
Hopefully i can get my doc to order a hormone panel this week. If not i am going to pay for it out of pocket. I really want to know where i am at.
[quote]beaul wrote:
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Even with proper diet from Shelby and abundant cardio my LDL stayed pretty consistent with what it was even on a poor diet, I can assume it’s just a genetic predisposition but I’d like to see if I can improve that number over time with some OTC remedies.
Mine came back (non fasted because I wasn’t instructed to do so…woops). Any ideas on how much that influences this particular test?
Chol 205 mg/dl 0-200
Trig 45 mg/dl 30-150
HDL 66 mg/dl 40-100
Chol/HDL Ratio 3.1 0.0-6.0
LDL(direct) 134 mg/dl 0-130
Ratio is pretty good and all the healthy fats really jacked up my HDL.
Your numbers are VERY good beaul, kudos. [/quote]
No idea on the fasted thing. Your HDL level is nice for sure. I do agree though, its definitely a lot to do with genetics. I will get another reading when i am at the end of gaining weight.
Darkane- Yeah, i had thought that as well, too low might not be ideal either. But nothing i can really do about that during a dieting phase. I was reading some things that said too low could cause some reactions, like depression, anxiety, low energy among other things. I suppose we could take protein down a notch and raise fats if it became an issue. Reversing heart disease can’t be bad either though. I wish i would have gotten mine checked when i was doing the anabolic diet during a gaining phase. That would have been very interesting.
Hopefully i can get my doc to order a hormone panel this week. If not i am going to pay for it out of pocket. I really want to know where i am at.[/quote]
Tell him common low testosterone issues. Low/libido, problems maintaining erections, no morning wood, no “drive” for life, depression, no energy, issues sleeping etc.
Ask him for a thyroid palpitation (just so he gets that idea out of his head and goes to the hormones for an answer) and hopefully he’ll do a male panel for you. That’s what I did.
[quote]Darkane wrote:
[quote]beaul wrote:
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Even with proper diet from Shelby and abundant cardio my LDL stayed pretty consistent with what it was even on a poor diet, I can assume it’s just a genetic predisposition but I’d like to see if I can improve that number over time with some OTC remedies.
Mine came back (non fasted because I wasn’t instructed to do so…woops). Any ideas on how much that influences this particular test?
Chol 205 mg/dl 0-200
Trig 45 mg/dl 30-150
HDL 66 mg/dl 40-100
Chol/HDL Ratio 3.1 0.0-6.0
LDL(direct) 134 mg/dl 0-130
Ratio is pretty good and all the healthy fats really jacked up my HDL.
Your numbers are VERY good beaul, kudos. [/quote]
No idea on the fasted thing. Your HDL level is nice for sure. I do agree though, its definitely a lot to do with genetics. I will get another reading when i am at the end of gaining weight.
Darkane- Yeah, i had thought that as well, too low might not be ideal either. But nothing i can really do about that during a dieting phase. I was reading some things that said too low could cause some reactions, like depression, anxiety, low energy among other things. I suppose we could take protein down a notch and raise fats if it became an issue. Reversing heart disease can’t be bad either though. I wish i would have gotten mine checked when i was doing the anabolic diet during a gaining phase. That would have been very interesting.
Hopefully i can get my doc to order a hormone panel this week. If not i am going to pay for it out of pocket. I really want to know where i am at.[/quote]
Tell him common low testosterone issues. Low/libido, problems maintaining erections, no morning wood, no “drive” for life, depression, no energy, issues sleeping etc.
Ask him for a thyroid palpitation (just so he gets that idea out of his head and goes to the hormones for an answer) and hopefully he’ll do a male panel for you. That’s what I did.
[/quote]
What is funny is… those are my symptoms and have been for about 2 years. This is just the first time i decided to do something about it. He already tried an SSRI. That last about a week. Didn’t help a single problem. Although i dont know if i took it long enough. But i slept worse.
Re: the food for thought comment
The ldl/hdl ratio and other health markers is somewhat of a catch-22(not really in my mind) and I’ll copy and paste a post by Dante on a reason why although the whole spectrum is well beyond my knowledge
[quote]There is a huge dilemna in bodybuilding nowadays and basically the heart healthy and cardiovasular health (LDL, HDL, triglyc) diets in many ways work directly against the objective in this sport (building muscle mass)
The frontier that is being pushed currently is prostaglandins, namely the interaction between PGE2 and PGF2a with PGF2a being the one everyone is concerned with as it has a direct effect on muscle growth thru increased Protein synthesis. And here lies the dilemna…the exact same compounds people use to stay healthy work directly against the objective.
Fish oils and flax oils (omega-3’s) lower prostaglandins and PGF2a
Omega 6 thankfully raises prostaglandins and PGF2a
N-saids (Ibuprofen, aspirin etc) blunt block prostaglandin production and in recent studies shown can halt MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY completely! (think about that next time you pop a Bufferin or Advil)
Extreme stretching increases PGF2a [/quote]
So while ksman is likely correct that hormonally it may be more advantageous to not be “that healthy” I think we all will agree that death is certainly catabolic so it’s a balance you have to find. Personally I’ll take the added quality years on my life and continue working on improving those figures versus a potential bodybuilding benefit of having them be elevated.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Re: the food for thought comment
The ldl/hdl ratio and other health markers is somewhat of a catch-22(not really in my mind) and I’ll copy and paste a post by Dante on a reason why although the whole spectrum is well beyond my knowledge
[quote]There is a huge dilemna in bodybuilding nowadays and basically the heart healthy and cardiovasular health (LDL, HDL, triglyc) diets in many ways work directly against the objective in this sport (building muscle mass)
The frontier that is being pushed currently is prostaglandins, namely the interaction between PGE2 and PGF2a with PGF2a being the one everyone is concerned with as it has a direct effect on muscle growth thru increased Protein synthesis. And here lies the dilemna…the exact same compounds people use to stay healthy work directly against the objective.
Fish oils and flax oils (omega-3’s) lower prostaglandins and PGF2a
Omega 6 thankfully raises prostaglandins and PGF2a
N-saids (Ibuprofen, aspirin etc) blunt block prostaglandin production and in recent studies shown can halt MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY completely! (think about that next time you pop a Bufferin or Advil)
Extreme stretching increases PGF2a [/quote]
So while ksman is likely correct that hormonally it may be more advantageous to not be “that healthy” I think we all will agree that death is certainly catabolic so it’s a balance you have to find. Personally I’ll take the added quality years on my life and continue working on improving those figures versus a potential bodybuilding benefit of having them be elevated. [/quote]
Sounds like it fits well with our Fat loss/muscle gain cycles 
Optimize it when you are gaining. Then get the health benefits when losing. haha
I got another cheat meal this week. I sucked ass big style. I had roughly the same amount of food, but couldnt finish it. I had to lay down on my side in the foetal position in my bathroom covering my head with a towel as I was in some much discomfort.
I guess this is the other side of cheat meals, you long for one for a mental break from the dieting and they make you feel so awful, you dont want to glut out one again for a while!
When Shelby gave me my cheat meal I went all out
Medium Thin Crust Pepperoni Pizza
Bacon cheese fries
Waffles w/ice cream
1/2 a Hershey’s chocolate pie
Double Stuf Oreos w/ milk
A full bag of cheetos(large bag)
And I literally woke up sick the next day with my throat and lymph nodes swollen, laying in sweat soaked sheets, achey like I had the flu. I even sent Shelby an email telling him NOT to give me another cheat meal due to the pain lol
When yu guys do great big cheats like that how much water do you put on? And how long until the water is gone?