Dealing with Fat Loss vs "Only Strength Matters"

Bigger Stronger Leaner Jim Wendler 5/3/1 Coaching
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Hi Jim & forum members.

I’ve got the books so this is not a question on triceps push down reps lol

however I find myself in the exact same position as you did. Close to 300lbs reasonably strong(700+ squats deads and late 4s bench) but fed up with the lifestyle, constantly eating, blood pressure etc

I decided to drop the body fat and get somewhat healthy while trying to hold onto some strength.

The adedge you can’t ride two horses with one ass comes into play and as predicted the lifts have went south.

During your weight loss and subsequent 5/3/1 beginning how did you deal with it physiologically.

I am aware of my sole goal but there is always the voice in the back of my head telling me only strength matters, as I’ve trained for strength for over 15 years.

How’d you deal with it?

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Not Jim obvisouly, This stuff is in your head. Tell your ego to back the fuck off lol. Don’t sweat it man. What really matters is getting in better shape. In all likeliness you’ll come back better AND STRONGER than you were. Prolly feel a lot better too.
Stay Frosty…

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Thanks for the reply.

I wouldn’t say its my ego as i fully anticipated my lifts to drop. Its simple physics.

I think it’s more of a reprogramming type deal for want of better terminology.

I was simply always more impressed with strength over aesthetics I guess

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Pound for pound you are probably stronger. I take it you are a powerlifter? Probably get a better wilks out of losing some weight.

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I think you and Jim both said it: you’re fed up with the extra mass it takes to perform at that level.

Once you make the decision to change, the rest should be history.

I’m a little confused. Are you struggling with the mental side of your journey?

Do you mean a reprogramming of your brain? If so, then you have to develop new habits. That’s a slow process.

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Pretty much on point here.

To describe it best would be like having an addiction, being big isn’t great for your health but lifting heavy(ish) is fucking awesome.

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Set goals for relative strength. Last time I checked, there are powerlifters at 200 pounds who can still bench 400 and squat 600 - of course they are freaks but it’s still possible. A 2X body weight bench, a 2.5-3X body weight squat and dead are both huge and use that as your gauge, not the actual number. So lose weight and set relative strength goals instead of the raw number. A 700# squat at 300 pounds is not the same as a 600 pounds squat at 200 pounds, right? You will still have big numbers at your new weight.

Since you’re 300 pounds, of course keep your goals reasonable. When you weight 275, how much weight do you want to lift? 2X bodyweight, 3X? just figure that out and make it so.

Then drop another 25 pounds to 250. Now find your relative strength goal again - 2X, 3X w/e…

you get the idea.

Stay strong my friend!

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Thanks for the reply Marc. I peaked at 292 for some time and am currently sitting at 250.

I’ve dropped a lot of weight quickly so it has taken a toll on my strength but I feel much better day to day.

I guess I just have to think of it differently now.

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what are you lifting now at a body weight of 250?

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I you are performance driven and strength is not going increase, picking other performance goals would be the key. Something to program/train towards and achieve success. If it’s just lbs on the scale, it doesn’t sound that will be as rewarding for you.

Focusing on limit strength while those numbers plummet would be demoralizing. I would think the wilks formula would provide little/no comfort.

If I were in that spot, I’d probably try and hit higher rep maxes and/or pick some lifts that I was not as strong in. I’d start with a really light TM and do an supplemental/assistance template that demands you start light. Should be easier to maintain the feel of progress as body weight drops and conditioning improves.

When you hit a body weight goal, you can always do a cycle to see how strong you can get on the main lifts at that weight. You might start at a weight you don’t like, but at least there’s a chance to make progress throughout the training block.

At least you’re not constantly slapped in the face by resetting TMs and lifting less weight.

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Im not training for strength, obviously ,but 520x3 squat, 365x3 bench and 660 deadl ift.

Dropped the 50lbs in about 3 month.
Target weight is 225

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For the most part I’ve also been following the frequency project. I like higher frequency programming and would rather train than do cardio.

However cardio has consisted of weighted best walks twice a week

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50 pounds in 3 months is a lot. I’m sure many guys on here at 250 pounds look at your 520x3 and 660 deadlift and dream of those numbers.

I’m 40 years old at 217 and I can squat and deadlift around 520-530. Bench is around 340-350x1. So who says you can’t be light and still be strong. Sounds like you’re on the right track, except I’d lose weight a bit slower than you are. I’ve lost 15 pounds over the last 4 months - just for perspective.

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Appreciate the kind words, we’re all in it to improve.

super numbers, howd you structure your own training during the weight loss?

A shake up in my own may improve it

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I’m actually all over the place with my training, but it goes a little something like this…

I am more interested in 10 and 20 rep maxes than 1 or 5, so I set my TMs closer to my 10RM than my 5RM (except for the press).

I do leaders and anchors and train 4 days a week, and condition 2-4 (although the last two weeks my conditioning has been in the trash due to a cold).

Squat and Deadlift I do the 5/3/1 OG Option 2 from the Forever book which sets you up for a goal of 10 reps at the top set each week. I always hit this goal (like today, 350x10 was my top set in the squats on 3’s week).

Bench and Press I do Malcolm X style training which is on Jim’s private forum. Since the information around this is only on that forum I don’t feel comfortable sharing it - but it has to do with X amount of reps at FSL, SSL or tops set each week.

My anchors for squat and deads are always 5/3/1 OG with the PR set at top set and then a widowmaker@FSL. I do the same thing with the bench and press, but I do the @FSL rest/pause style.

Leader assistance is always heavy from the 3 categaories, targetting 25-50 reps, then I lighten things up in the anchor and go for volume (50-100 reps).

Nothing ground breaking or rocket science here - but this works well for me. I have been losing weight extremely slowly. When I was 230 I set a goal of 225. Once I got to 225 I made sure to build up to my 230 strength by lowering my TM and then working my way back up to the TM I had at 230 pounds. Same thing at 220, and now getting close to 215 - I’m chasing the same TM and reps that I was at 230, and I’m not far off. 350x10 is a bit low in the squat for me, considering I was doing 385x15 at 230 pounds. So I will work back up to that and then try to get to 210 while maintaining strength.

My goal to lose weight was due to issues with my hamstring and planters fasciitis. I am by no means fat - most say I’m a ripped 6 foot 220 pound guy, but I feel heavy and don’t train for aesthetics - 100% performance based. My squat workout is superset with dips and chins and I finish it in under 45 minutes… shit like that.

Sorry for the book I just wrote, hope it helps.

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Sounds great, well done.

Unfortunately I’m outside the US, as the name suggests, so the terminology and methods from forever are slightly over my head.

I may however look into the forum.

Thanks for the info

Isn’t the internet a great place when people are counts lol (actually said in a deep irish voice as I typed)

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When people aren’t cunts😇

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FSL = First Set Last
SSL = Second Set Last
Top set = you get it.

Leaders = accumulation cycle. Higher volume of supplemental work (work done after the 5/3/1 sets, like 5x10@FSL on bench during the leader). Usually do 2 leaders in a row then deload.

Anchor = “peaking cycle” I guess. Jim wound’t call it a peaking cycle, or maybe he would? It sort of goes against the “never peak again” mantra but I don’t know what else to call it. During the anchor you lower the volume but up the intensity - like PR sets with no supplemental afterward, or lowering the supplemental volume from 5x10@FSL to 5x5@FSL. Since the heavy volume goes down, here is the time to “bodybuild” with the assistance - higher reps, lighter weight.

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Yeah I was lost in leaders and anchors.

Wouldn’t ask or don’t want any info from book or forum. We’ve enough integrity not to rip of Jim, he’s earned the right to charge for this stuff.

But I appreciate the info.

Will definitely look into the forum

Happy lifting

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Great stuff Marc a lot of detail. I have the Forever book and saw the 5/3/1 OG option 2 and it looked like it could be fun since it gives you a goal for the top end sets of 10 reps but what should I start my TM % at, I imagine 85% is to heavy? Also, what would you recommend for assistance lifts on this setup?

I have been debating on doing the Coffinworm or the 5/3/1 OG option 2 which one would you recommend for strength gains?