I’m having problems increasing my deadlift so any help would be great. I’ve read Dave Tate’s great article ?deadzone? where he lists the most common deadlifting mistakes and I’m trying put what he says into practice only its not going too well.
The problems are:
I’ve always lifted the bar straight up whereas having read DT’s article I now know that I should be pulling back more i.e. using the leverage of my weight by almost ?falling back?. However, DT also says that a common mistake is having the shins too close to the bar. I’ve always had the bar against my shins (and against my body throughout the entire movement) and I cant see how you can pull back with having the bar against your shins when you start. As DT says that bar needs to travel forward and go over the knees first if you do it this way (i.e. the wrong way) but I cant see how you can pull back without the bar against your shins. Any ideas?
Another mistake is that I do not keep my shoulders behind the bar, usually right over the bar. Again how can you correct this. I just cant seem to keep behind the bar. This goes back to number 1 above in that to keep my shoulders behind the bar I would have to keep it against my shins which apparently is wrong.
DT says one big mistake is to have the hips too far from the bar (I think he means too low at the start of the lift). On the other hand Charles Staley in his article ?Deadlifting for dummies? says the opposite i.e. you should deadlift as if squatting with the bar in your hands. Who is right? What do you do?
In addition, which other exercises would you recommend for bringing up the deadlift?
This little debate continues I see. My advice is to soak in all the information you can and use what works best for you. When it comes to the deadlift it is especially important to be comfortable or in a groove during the movement. If your lift is a smooth fluid thing and you feel comfortable don’t worry to much about your shoulders being an inch over the bar.
Have some experienced deaders watch you and also watch yourself in the mirror (from the side) you’ll beable to pick out mistakes. Everyone is shaped different so there is no standfast rules that you can attach to deads.
Here are a couple of rules I give newbie dead lifters that might help.
During your 1st couple warm-up sets get down into position and roll the bar toward you until it rests or almost rests against your shins. This will help you see were your feet should be, for me my shins are about 6-8inches from the bar when standing, you need to beable to plant your feet before you grab the bar.
The bar should be as close to center gravity as possible i.e. keep it over the center of your feet, which result in an angle ascent and proper shoulder alignment. You really need to have someone video tape your lifts to see that the bar probably is moving back, if it doesn’t 2 things will happen the bar will travel away from your legs and you will start to lose your balance forward.
Hope this helps
Basso (self proclaimed dead master)
Dude, listen to Dave - he’s a freaking powerlifter at Westside Barbell, and, as great as Staley is, powerlifting is not his specialty. I dunno what Dave
s best is, but I’m pretty sure it’s over 700lbs.
When I started to listen to other people in the gym (weaker people - I should have known) and started trying to drop my hips, my deadlift died. You look at pictures of strong deadlifters - even bodybuilders with powerlifting backgrounds like Franco Colombu, Ronnie Coleman and Johnnie Jackson - these guys keep their hips pretty high at the start of the lift. If you pull conventional, this is the way to go.
Best exercises? I find rack pulls for reps from above the knees make my lockouts strong, any hamstring work, lower back work, trap work, and barbell rows are also great. But for a beginner, and I know the die hard Westsiders will disagree, the best thing for your pull is to pull.
Thanks for the input. What you say about feeling comfortable with the technique makes alot of sense.
If you keep the bar against your shins when you start, do you think that the extra resistance (you pulling back but the bar actaully travelling forward until it gets over the knee) makes the lift heavier?
I don’t necessarily think you need to drag the bar up your shins, but your shins should be resting against the bar at the starting. Some deadlifters will drag some won’t, I’ve seen an 800+ lift with a complete drag. It defenitely should be dragging on the thighs though. Once again you gotta find your sweet spot.
I definitely would agree with a high hip start, the whole idea is to make your whole body work together, never just legs or just back, if you start with low hips your basically doing a dead squat at the beginning of the lift, the more of your body you get involved the more power you’ll have to move the weight off the floor.
I have a 500 lb deadlift at 181 lbs. That’s not spectacular, but I do know something about it.
First of all, put down your protractor and compass and stop analyzing it to death. The deadlift is technically speaking the simplest of the 3 lifts.
There are two dilemmas that I have noticed, watching many deadlifters. If you are too far “over” the bar at the start and not far enough “back” then you most likely will have trouble with the lockout portion of the lift. If you are too far “back” at the start and not far enough “over” the bar, then you probably will have trouble out of the hole.
So in a nutshell, there is no one right way to do it. My biomechanics are way different from yours, and Dave Tate’s biomechanics are way different than both of ours. He wrote an article that fixes the most common problems among trainees. I’m sure he’ll be the first to say that it is not a “fix-all” and that there are athletes that are exceptions to his rules.
I will say that your posterior chain is of utmost importance. I have taken 6-8 week (or more) breaks from deadlifting, and when I resumed, my deadlift had gone up. Train your hamstrings and low back hard. Squat heavy.
As far as the actual execution of the lift, it is hard to tell without seeing you lift. PULL HARD, and pull back. Drive your head and neck back into your traps, and keep your back arched.
I think you are over-analyzing your form way too much and agree with others in this forum that you have to find what works for you. I’ve found two things that have worked very well for me. The first is partial deadlifts inside of a rack (sans support gear) starting just above the thighs–hold at lockout for 10-20 seconds. The second thing that has helped me a lot is something called "top down deadlifts in which you start at the top of the lift , lower the bar to the floor, then complete the lift. This will help you find correct body alignment .
You’ve got some great advice to already work with, but a coupla west side guys who let me work out with them last summer gave a tip i always remember: imagine not that you’re pulling the bar up but that you’re pushing the ground down with your legs. this helps me keep my upper body position true during the start of the lift since i’m not really thinking so much of pulling the weight up. it might help, it might not, but i know it helps me.