[quote]Bingbeast wrote:
i hope i’m not hijacking anybodies post !
I am about 2-3 weeks into my blast and for the past week & a 1/2, most of my lifts are stalling! I’m beating the logbook by a rep here and there but a few of my lifts have even decreased. This definitely sounds like a ‘systematic’ fatigue rather then stalling on particular lifts but it doesn’t make any sense for it to be happening so soon! I’ve read that Dante says your lifts should be going up by at least 2 reps (or tie the old record with 5+ lbs (or was it 10 ?!).
Should I rotate in new exercises to replace the ones that are stalling the most? Maybe cruise early then planned? Or could it just be a temporary kinda thing. My strength levels seem to fluctuate but usually workout to workout - not week to week.
Thanks[/quote]
Do you mean you’re 2-3 weeks into beating your logbook, which is actually week 4-5 in the blast, or are you trying to beat your numbers for the 1st time (=week 3). You shouldn’t be stalling either way though… Post your blast setup here so people can pick at it. You’re eating & sleeping enough, right?
Bingbeast, sounds like diet or rest are the problem… Provided you’re doing everything else right of course (proper setup and technique, enough intensity, etc)… Diet=gains.
I’m 2-3 weeks into beating my log book. The first week or two went really well and i had to hold back from being overzealous. I added 5 or 10 lbs max on the lifts I was doing well on. I have been eating and sleeping pretty well and consistently.
my current blast looks like this.:
1a) Incline bench / db seated press / dips / pull-down / deads
2a) Ez Curl / Pivot curls / standing calf raise / glute-ham raise / leg press
1b) Db bench / Military press / close grip bench / nar. pull down / t-bar row
2b) Seated db curl / Hammer curl / seated calf raise / sumo press / front squat
3a) hammer incline / smith rear press / rev.grip bench / pull-ups / row
3b) db curl / hammer bar curl / leg press calf raise / lying leg curl / squat
My setup is pretty good. I ramp up with descending reps (usually 5-6 sets total). I’m afraid my diet will actually raise a new topic! I’m completely vegan. Therefore I don’t follow the DC diet guidelines.
Meal 1: Smoothie (mix of rice/pea/hemp protein + oatmeal + banana + blueberries)
Meal 2: Raw nuts and seeds + 1-2 pcs of fruit
Meal 3: Salad with broccoli, quinoa & lentils
Meal 4: Protein shake + fruit or veggies
Meal 5: Tempeh & brown rice
Meal 6 (pwo): Gatorade w/ Protein mix.
Your diet, is simply not adequate to give you the recovery for this program. It needs to be increased a ton to see the size and strength gains you are hoping for.
I don’t want this thread to turn into whether vegan diets are good or not, but your diet you put there is not good enough.
My setup is pretty good. I ramp up with descending reps (usually 5-6 sets total). I’m afraid my diet will actually raise a new topic! I’m completely vegan. Therefore I don’t follow the DC diet guidelines.
Meal 1: Smoothie (mix of rice/pea/hemp protein + oatmeal + banana + blueberries)
Meal 2: Raw nuts and seeds + 1-2 pcs of fruit
Meal 3: Salad with broccoli, quinoa & lentils
Meal 4: Protein shake + fruit or veggies
Meal 5: Tempeh & brown rice
Meal 6 (pwo): Gatorade w/ Protein mix.
btw. I’m 6’ - 235 lbs.[/quote]
That’s the problem then. I’m not sure if there are any vegans doing DC… I’m sure it could be done though. How much protein are you getting? From looking at your list, it doesn’t seem like it’s anywhere near enough, unless your shakes are huuuuge. You probably need to up your fats too… Shovel in some coconut oil etc.
thanks for the input guys and I appreciate not turning this into a vegan debate.
I have never really counted all my nutrients but I estimate I usually get around 150-200 g’s of protein a day. I know many of you will be cringing at that but it has worked pretty well for me. I spent most of my life as a vegetarian eating tons of eggs and drinking tons of milk. I actually started gaining a lot ‘better’ weight when i jumped over to vegan. I agree my diet could use some work but it is a little difficult for me considering vegan meals take more prep time and there aren’t nearly as many ‘quick’ fixes… If any of you have any suggestions I’m all ears.
edit.
I just wanted to add that even though my diet could use some work, I’m not sure it is entirely related to my lifts stalling right now. I have been following DC for almost 2 years and this is the first time i’ve had a overall stall like this.
If being a vegan is a choice you are making you also have to accept the fact that things will be more difficult if not out of your reach given your limitation.
150-200 grams of protein(estimated) is probably enough for a 130 lb fitness girl to grow as long as the other macros are high enough. You said it is working better, but your numbers and post in this thread don’t seem to reflect that.
haha… i see your point. Well my choice to be vegan is not even an option for me. I do some work with animal rights groups and have seen too many things with my own eyes to ever go back. I haven’t eating meat in over 10 years. Personally I don’t believe that it is a limitation.
I’m not sure what you referring to by my numbers? Are you referring to my weight?
Bing, most guys can get to 200-220 in decent condition low teens in terms of bodyfat) with a sub-optimal protein intake. But getting beyond that, esp. as a natty with average genetics? Slow and difficult, in many cases practically impossible. At your height, 235 sounds about right… Going beyond that size will require more protein… Not saying you won’t be able to make any more gains, but they will certainly be hard to come by.
You may even have more luck with a regular routine…
DC is kind of like putting someone on rails belly-first and mounted on train-wheels and then sticking a big rocket in his ass.
It allows you to make very fast progress, but there is little margin for error.
To really make it work, everything needs to be in place.
Technique and setup, or else you’ll end up hurting yourself (guy falls off the rails and shoots right into the closest rock wall)…
Diet, or else you simply won’t make it much past a certain point (rocket runs out of fuel/doesn’t have enough power left to propel you uphill /stutters)… Gotta know your body and when to cruise and when to blast (otherwise the rocket goes boom and that was the end of that)…
If you were a vegetarian instead of a vegan, you could at least use quark (curd), cottage cheese etc… That would probably help you get to 250-260 in decent-ish condition if you really went at it… I train a few vegetarians… But being a vegan is really going to make this bloody difficult.
In this game, for guys of average genetics (and even many of the elite), nothing happens without a massive diet past a certain point.
thanks for this post CC … especially this: “DC is kind of like putting someone on rails belly-first and mounted on train-wheels and then sticking a big rocket in his ass.” I have to admit, I started chuckling all by myself. I totally agree with what you’re saying and I can actually attest to it.
Getting my weight up to 235 lbs has been relatively easy (well maybe not easy but steady) but this has become my sticking point.
edit: I cannot imagine going back to a higher volume - bodypart hit once a week routine!!! The madness!
You probably have hit the point where you are strong enough to push your recovery systems beyond the point where they are able to keep up with the demand, given your diet. In the past you may have been successful with DC because you simply weren’t strong enough to push your body that hard (even though you may have been giving it your all in the gym).
Anything under 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight is pretty much recovery suicide on most any intense bodybuilding program, let alone one as taxing as DC. And even going as low as 1g is probably too low (unless maybe you were doing a carb rotation diet under the watchful eye of someone like Justin Harris, Shelby, or some other very knowledgeable dietary coach, and that would only be on your “high” days).
Technically you can make complete proteins out of mixing incomplete proteins (rice and beans for example make a complete protein, as does peanut butter and bread). But you’re gonna be eating a crap load of carbs in the process, which (since you’d pretty much have to do this every day) is likely going to lead to insulin resistance and subsequently a whole lot of bodyfat (at least).
You say that you’re a vegan because you’re against cruelty to animals. Fair enough. Everyone has their principles. But have you ever considered say, buying organic cage free eggs? Or local milk (where you can actually see that the cows are well taken care of)? Both are a little more expensive, but you’re probably already paying top dollar for your vegan diet (had a cousin who was vegan years back, and the main reason he isn’t anymore is because of the ridiculous cost of vegan food). I mean, you’ve got to do what you think is right of course, just throwing out some possible “middle of the road” options that you might not have considered which would make getting the protein a little easier/more feasible.
I’ve gotta agree with C_C and Scott that if you aren’t willing to change your dietary habits, then you’d probably be better off doing a different program.
Not all bodypart splits are “high volume” either btw. Check out Bricknyce’s thread “The Bodybuilding Bible” for a general guideline on how to set one up. You can also read back in this thread a page or two to see how I explained the difference between “high volume” and “low volume” routines as they are actually practiced by successful bodybuilders.
thanks Sento… I think I have to agree with everything you mentioned. I have been feeling pretty tired lately. Not sleepy tired but drained out kind of tired. Like I mentioned before, I have done several blasts with no problems. My weight has been going up (both on the scale and on the bar) but I’ve hit a wall of sorts.
I would not have a problem consuming eggs or milk I knew they came from a ‘humane’ source. However I’m not sure if those 2 sources would really add up enough to make a big difference.
Since hitting this wall I’ve been thinking of dropping the rest pauses for 2 straight sets. I believe that is Dante’s suggestion for people with below average recovery. Personally I’ve had the best strength gains on a higher frequency (2 days a week) / lower volume / progressive load. I would simply follow a upper / lower split but I do not like the idea of performing back thickness, back width, chest, shoulders, bi’s and tri’s all in one day.
[quote]Bingbeast wrote:
thanks Sento… I think I have to agree with everything you mentioned. I have been feeling pretty tired lately. Not sleepy tired but drained out kind of tired. Like I mentioned before, I have done several blasts with no problems. My weight has been going up (both on the scale and on the bar) but I’ve hit a wall of sorts.
I would not have a problem consuming eggs or milk I knew they came from a ‘humane’ source. However I’m not sure if those 2 sources would really add up enough to make a big difference.
Since hitting this wall I’ve been thinking of dropping the rest pauses for 2 straight sets. I believe that is Dante’s suggestion for people with below average recovery. Personally I’ve had the best strength gains on a higher frequency (2 days a week) / lower volume / progressive load. I would simply follow a upper / lower split but I do not like the idea of performing back thickness, back width, chest, shoulders, bi’s and tri’s all in one day.
Anyways… thanks for the advice[/quote]
I think eggs alone could make a big difference in your case. I always make sure to buy free-range eggs and pasture-raised/grass-fed beef btw, and not just for humane reasons… That stuff is much healthier.
Do you guys think it would be more beneficial to stay on the 2 way split but replace the rp with 2 straight sets? Or will my diet still interfere with recovery due to the frequency? Should I back off and hit 1 body part every 5-7 days?
[quote]Bingbeast wrote:
Do you guys think it would be more beneficial to stay on the 2 way split but replace the rp with 2 straight sets? Or will my diet still interfere with recovery due to the frequency? Should I back off and hit 1 body part every 5-7 days?
Thanks for the advice.[/quote]
It would certainly help. I don’t know whether you would be able to handle it or not though. Really the only way to know is to give it a try. If not though, doing the traditional body part split approach would be a good way to go.
[quote]Mateus wrote:
Had a great day today. I don’t keep a log here at the forum but I figured I would just throw it into this thread today.
PR - Bicep Curl Straight Bar: 100 lbs for 16 reps.
PR - Leg Press: 1,040 for 10 reps w/ 720 lb WM
My legs are still numb! Think it is time for knee wraps. These 34 year old knees are starting to ache…[/quote]
Great job Mat.
And you don’t have to wait until you are injured to start using supportive gear. You want to be doing this for a while (I suspect), so there’s no shame in trying to keep the wear and tear on your joints to a minimum. Not saying to use wraps/sleeves/etc… when you’re warming up, but there’s nothing wrong with using them for maximal sets.