Previous thread is locked again from maximum replies -_-
Here’s part 3!
If memory served me right Dante said to ONLY widowmaker lagging parts on a 3-way split and should NOT do it on a 2-way split. Am I right? I was flirting with the idea of WM for my lagging parts but recall something like that so I wanted to double check.
no wm on the 2way outside of the quad wm. for the 3 way you do use it for lagging parts.
gotcha thanks
If you’re concerned with lagging bodyparts, then I’d pay extra attention to your exercise selection. There’s an actual thread about this subject over at IM, but the gist of it is to pick exercises for other body parts which secondarily hit the desired lagging bodypart(s).
For instance, if pecs are lagging, pick all pressing exercises for triceps, and maybe do some high incline presses for shoulders. If biceps are lagging, choose back exercises where the palms are supinated. If hamstrings are lagging floor deads and/or sumo deads (back thickness exercises) can be chosen over something like rack deads (which take out the bottom portion of the lift and therefore hit the upper back more directly).
I’ll see if I can find Dante’s original post and paste it here.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
If you’re concerned with lagging bodyparts, then I’d pay extra attention to your exercise selection. There’s an actual thread about this subject over at IM, but the gist of it is to pick exercises for other body parts which secondarily hit the desired lagging bodypart(s).
For instance, if pecs are lagging, pick all pressing exercises for triceps, and maybe do some high incline presses for shoulders. If biceps are lagging, choose back exercises where the palms are supinated. If hamstrings are lagging floor deads and/or sumo deads (back thickness exercises) can be chosen over something like rack deads (which take out the bottom portion of the lift and therefore hit the upper back more directly).
I’ll see if I can find Dante’s original post and paste it here.[/quote]
Here’s a quote from the article that came out a while ago:
The exercises you select should reflect your needs and goals. “If you have a weak chest, you don’t want to do skull crushers for your triceps,” SM said. You’d pick dips or close-grip bench presses instead, giving you an extra exercise for your chest without cheating your triceps.
[quote]forbes wrote:
Here’s a quote from the article that came out a while ago:
The exercises you select should reflect your needs and goals. “If you have a weak chest, you don’t want to do skull crushers for your triceps,” SM said. You’d pick dips or close-grip bench presses instead, giving you an extra exercise for your chest without cheating your triceps.[/quote]
Hey that sounds familiar. That’s pretty much it… “how can I get some extra work in for my lagging parts without compromising gains overall?” Let your brain think it out.
Biceps suck=a couple reverse and or neutral grip exercises for back. Now you’re hitting biceps HARD with your back moves and still getting good(maybe even better) lat growth.
First and foremost pick the 3 best exercises for that particular body part. Something that’s overlooked but it’s the most important thing we do with the program here. Maybe do the exercise a little weird if you have to, Dante’s suggestion to grip the dumbbells near the plate to have to supinate harder made a nearly obsolete exercise in dumbbells curls one of my best movements for awhile. Make those 3 rotated exercises as effective as possible, add in some “extra” work via smart exercises choices elsewhere and beat the log for 3+ months.
Unbelievable how much interpretation this system needs.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Unbelievable how much interpretation this system needs. [/quote]
It’s obviously very straight forward once you get the hang of it, but there’s also a lot of incorrect information about it out there. You also get a lot of people wanting to screw with the formula without really understanding why the program was set up like it is. Which is where we come in. 
Besides, it gives us DC guys something constructive to talk about (rather than arguing over whether TBT is better than splits for example). 
And every now and then it pulls Scott out of the woodwork to come post here on T-Nation. 
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Unbelievable how much interpretation this system needs. [/quote]
It’s obviously very straight forward once you get the hang of it, but there’s also a lot of incorrect information about it out there. You also get a lot of people wanting to screw with the formula without really understanding why the program was set up like it is. Which is where we come in.
Besides, it gives us DC guys something constructive to talk about (rather than arguing over whether TBT is better than splits for example).
And every now and then it pulls Scott out of the woodwork to come post here on T-Nation. :D[/quote]
i know, scott has been pretty low key on the boards lately.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
If you’re concerned with lagging bodyparts, then I’d pay extra attention to your exercise selection. There’s an actual thread about this subject over at IM, but the gist of it is to pick exercises for other body parts which secondarily hit the desired lagging bodypart(s).
For instance, if pecs are lagging, pick all pressing exercises for triceps, and maybe do some high incline presses for shoulders. If biceps are lagging, choose back exercises where the palms are supinated. If hamstrings are lagging floor deads and/or sumo deads (back thickness exercises) can be chosen over something like rack deads (which take out the bottom portion of the lift and therefore hit the upper back more directly).
I’ll see if I can find Dante’s original post and paste it here.[/quote]
Ah I know what you’re talking about. I recall reading that as well a while back. Thanks for reminding me about it!
Damn, for some reason I can’t seem to find the thread/post by Dante on the subject. I’ve put every conceivable combination of words into the IM search and google search and can’t find the thread I’m looking for. I think it was something like “2 way split guys, use your heads”.
Maybe Scott can help us out?
Two way split people start using your head!
You know, I see alot of guys in this forum freaking out about their weaker bodyparts with the 2 day split (mon wed fri) and every time I see these posts I think “dont these guys think this stuff out?”…but maybe its my fault and my brain works a certain way and some of you guys think more on a straight and narrow view. (please dont take that as a putdown–its constructive criticism
This is pretty simple guys, it really is.
If your chest is weak what does that mean? That means you
a) find the 3 most productive exercises that you can rotate for your chest and rest pause them (as you already knew)
b) and that means for triceps you put your 3 rotated exercises as dips, close grip bench presses, and reverse grip bench presses or any other exercise that secondarily will also hit your chest–its just that simple.
If you are rest pausing incline barbell presses, decline barbell presses, and hammer strength presses as your rotated chest exercises and hitting dips, close grips and reverse grips for your triceps (and secondarily chest) exercises, and its not responding TRUST ME–the problem lies in something else your doing (diet is way off, overtraining, low testosterone levels, the worst chest genetics known to man)
and its up to you the individual to figure out your body and how you percieve your weak bodyparts–and think it out on how to set up this attack.
Traps arent up to snuff? Gee what does that mean? Ill tell you what that means to me…that means your three rotated back thickness exercises are floor deadlifts, rack deadlifts, sumo rack deadlifts, or hammer machine deadlifts. What is that going to give you? huge traps and a back that is as thick as a brick
Biceps not up to snuff? Whats that mean to me? You find the 3 most prolific bicep exercises to rotate obviously and then I would probably have you do undergrip assisted chins, undergrip pulldowns and maybe something similiar for your third rotated back width exercise or maybe I would have one of your back thickness exercises really hit your biceps hard in place of the 3rd width exercise (example: you do wide rack chins on that day but for back thickness (and biceps) you do t-bar rows or seated cable rows with a close grip parallel grip)
Hamstrings suck? Well that means your probably going to end up doing heavy lunges somewhere in your quad exercises. Shoulders suck? Well maybe that means close grip, high incline bench presses find their way into your tricep exercises among other things
This really isnt that hard guys if you think it out. I can give you a basic outline to all this as Ive felt Ive done, but I cant go thru your individual bodies and tell you what I would do. Look in the mirror, figure out what needs to come up and start developing an overlapping gameplan.
Why do my personal trainees seem to develop pretty evenly? Because I try to think out this stuff by their pictures and what they tell me. I switch them to exercises I think will take care of weak areas and to secondary exercises that I feel will do the same. Thats your job–your job is to figure out what you need to be doing exercise wise. If your triceps absolutely suck dont you think doing deep dips for one of your chest exercises might be alot better than the decline cable flyes you are currently doing?
I see some guys in this forum just going with the thought “well im just going to do what that guy over there does” Huh? That guys chest, shoulders and triceps are awesome, while your chest sucks. His back width is awful though and your back width is by far your best bodypart. WHY THE HELL ARE YOU DOING EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING? Sit down and figure out what you need to be doing on the 2 way split to get weak bodyparts moving along with your strong bodyparts.
I hope you guys take this post and really think about what im trying to relay here and this post helps you start fixing the particulars as it pertains to your body.
EDIT: Post by Dante, obviously. I forgot to use the quote brackets.
The easiest way to find those popular threads is to scroll to the bottom of the page and arrange the viewing from the preset “most recent post” to “most viewed thread” and then change last 45 days to all time, a lot of great threads appear right on the front page that way.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
The easiest way to find those popular threads is to scroll to the bottom of the page and arrange the viewing from the preset “most recent post” to “most viewed thread” and then change last 45 days to all time, a lot of great threads appear right on the front page that way.
[/quote]
Thanks Scott.
[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Two way split people start using your head!
You know, I see alot of guys in this forum freaking out about their weaker bodyparts with the 2 day split (mon wed fri) and every time I see these posts I think “dont these guys think this stuff out?”…but maybe its my fault and my brain works a certain way and some of you guys think more on a straight and narrow view. (please dont take that as a putdown–its constructive criticism
This is pretty simple guys, it really is.
If your chest is weak what does that mean? That means you
a) find the 3 most productive exercises that you can rotate for your chest and rest pause them (as you already knew)
b) and that means for triceps you put your 3 rotated exercises as dips, close grip bench presses, and reverse grip bench presses or any other exercise that secondarily will also hit your chest–its just that simple.
If you are rest pausing incline barbell presses, decline barbell presses, and hammer strength presses as your rotated chest exercises and hitting dips, close grips and reverse grips for your triceps (and secondarily chest) exercises, and its not responding TRUST ME–the problem lies in something else your doing (diet is way off, overtraining, low testosterone levels, the worst chest genetics known to man)
and its up to you the individual to figure out your body and how you percieve your weak bodyparts–and think it out on how to set up this attack.
Traps arent up to snuff? Gee what does that mean? Ill tell you what that means to me…that means your three rotated back thickness exercises are floor deadlifts, rack deadlifts, sumo rack deadlifts, or hammer machine deadlifts. What is that going to give you? huge traps and a back that is as thick as a brick
Biceps not up to snuff? Whats that mean to me? You find the 3 most prolific bicep exercises to rotate obviously and then I would probably have you do undergrip assisted chins, undergrip pulldowns and maybe something similiar for your third rotated back width exercise or maybe I would have one of your back thickness exercises really hit your biceps hard in place of the 3rd width exercise (example: you do wide rack chins on that day but for back thickness (and biceps) you do t-bar rows or seated cable rows with a close grip parallel grip)
Hamstrings suck? Well that means your probably going to end up doing heavy lunges somewhere in your quad exercises. Shoulders suck? Well maybe that means close grip, high incline bench presses find their way into your tricep exercises among other things
This really isnt that hard guys if you think it out. I can give you a basic outline to all this as Ive felt Ive done, but I cant go thru your individual bodies and tell you what I would do. Look in the mirror, figure out what needs to come up and start developing an overlapping gameplan.
Why do my personal trainees seem to develop pretty evenly? Because I try to think out this stuff by their pictures and what they tell me. I switch them to exercises I think will take care of weak areas and to secondary exercises that I feel will do the same. Thats your job–your job is to figure out what you need to be doing exercise wise. If your triceps absolutely suck dont you think doing deep dips for one of your chest exercises might be alot better than the decline cable flyes you are currently doing?
I see some guys in this forum just going with the thought “well im just going to do what that guy over there does” Huh? That guys chest, shoulders and triceps are awesome, while your chest sucks. His back width is awful though and your back width is by far your best bodypart. WHY THE HELL ARE YOU DOING EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING? Sit down and figure out what you need to be doing on the 2 way split to get weak bodyparts moving along with your strong bodyparts.
I hope you guys take this post and really think about what im trying to relay here and this post helps you start fixing the particulars as it pertains to your body.
EDIT: Post by Dante, obviously. I forgot to use the quote brackets.[/quote]
That’s it. Thanks Purple.
I swear I put all kinds of word combinations using the words “2 way split” and “use your head” into the IM search and it came up with nothing. I guess I must have had the search criteria off, like Scott mentioned above.
Gotta love how concisely and clearly Dante spells out the above concept.
What’s up with the DC thread (one of the few consistently constructive and positive/helpful threads in the BB’ing forum) constantly getting bumped to the second page (even if there are posts from that day) while threads like “new incline DB record…”, which are full of nonsensical crap, arguing over who’s a troll and who’s using multiple accounts, and don’t really do any good to anyone, stays on the front page? I just don’t get it.
Anyhow back to DC.
Has anyone tried the pec deck push press “chest cure” that Dante prescribed over at IM? My chest isn’t really a weak point (was before I retrained myself to use my chest while benching and fixed my form), nor am I really lacking inner thickness, but I might give it a shot just to see how it works.
I haven’t ever really done the PDPP in my rotation (played around with it a little during a cruise once), but I have access to one of the incline old style pec fly machines at my gym, so I could do it if I chose to.
I’m currently coming off of an extended cruise (caught a nasty cold, damn contagious people) and had my 3 chest exercises all ready to go, but was reading the thread about the PDPP over at IM the other night and it kind of piqued my interest.
Hit the 315 x20 widowmaker on squats yesterday. Not much for some of you guys but it was a pretty big milestone for me.
[quote]ajweins wrote:
Hit the 315 x20 widowmaker on squats yesterday. Not much for some of you guys but it was a pretty big milestone for me.[/quote]
DAMN!!! that’s huge. now on to four plates!!!
[quote]ajweins wrote:
Hit the 315 x20 widowmaker on squats yesterday. Not much for some of you guys but it was a pretty big milestone for me.[/quote]
AWESOME!! Congrats!