DC Training Thread (Part 3)

Training Bodybuilding
141

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:
Ok, I pretty much know the answer I’m gonna get, but I’m gonna ask anyway. How has switching to DC from traditional high volume training really changed your physiques? I’ve tried about every style of training in the few years I’ve started training regularly and can honestly say that, especially as of late, almost nothing has worked that amazingly.

A few years ago I was about 237 at 6’1." I had gained a ton of strength and muscle by doing only fullbody routines. I usually did 3-4 days a week. However, I switched to typical high volume, bodybuilding oriented training and got way over trained and ended up injured (shoulders, knee, hip). After switching back to fullbody I was way weaker and seem to just keep losing weight and being fatigued.

Anyway, I’ve tried everything: Waterbury stuff, I,BB, EDT, HIT, HSS-100, Reverse pyramiding, OVT, nothing really seems to work anymore. I’m 31, 6’1", a dismal 195lbs. (and that’s eating about 3500 calories a day), and looking for something. I guess basically I’ve answered my own question, especially with my work schedule that only lets me train 3-4 days max anyway. So what I’m looking for is numbers, pictures, something. What are some gains you guys have really made?[/quote]

Short answer: Try upping your calories by 500 per day (no idea what your macro ratios look like) and see if that doesn’t result in you gaining some weight on the scale. If it doesn’t, add another 500 per day. Keep repeating this process until you do start to gain weight (which should also result in strength gains).

Long answer: You seem to be making the mistake of looking for the “magical training program” which is going to put slabs of muscle on your body without realizing that training is just the signal which tells your body that it needs to supercompensate by rebuilding your muscles bigger and stronger. What you then NEED is the actual raw materials to allow it to do so. 3,500 calories is not a lot of food (especially for someone who weighs around 200 lbs), so you may need to change your perspective on that matter.

You’re also making the mistake of jumping from one program to the next (suffering from what we like to call “training program ADD”), most likely never actually giving any of them a chance to work for you. My guess is that just about every one of those programs which you’ve supposedly “tried” was a solid program (maybe the CW ones weren’t great BB’ing choices, but whatever) and you would have been fine sticking with it had you just continued to eat more food and give your body the fuel it needed to continue progressing.

For instance, you said you’ve done I,BB? What’s that been out for, 1 month? If that. How could you possibly expect to see huge gains in 1 month’s time?

You are either trolling (and if that’s the case, then know that this thread will not tolerate that kind of crap and no one will respond to you once it becomes clear) or are just really misguided and naive.

If it’s the first, then GTFO! If it’s the later, then hopefully what I’ve said above will throw a switch in your brain, cause a paradigm shift, and get you to realize that your plateau is not the result of not having found the “optimal program”, but mainly a result of your dietary habits.

Let me break it down into a “Cliff Notes” version for you:
-Pick a program specific to your goals that appeals to you and that you believe in (could be a traditional BB split like in Bricknyce’s thread, “I,BB”, MAX-OT, any of the numerous splits that C_C has posted in his thread or the T-Cell, Prof. X’s split, whatever) and stick with it for at least 6 months to 1 year (and don’t stop using it until you outgrow it).

-Focus on strength progression (I don’t care how many drop sets, or forced reps, or whatever intensity techniques you use, or how much of a “burn” you get from doing something; if you aren’t getting stronger, you aren’t progressing)

-EAT!!! Food is the most anabolic substance known to man and it’s the ONLY substance that your body can actually use to build new muscle tissue with. If you don’t give your body the raw materials that it needs, then no program, NONE, is going to result in your putting on large amounts of muscle mass.

-Ramp up to a top 1-2 sets per exercise (although I believe that Skip Lacour advocates doing 3 at times, but unless you’ve got someone like him guiding you, then don’t go above 2). None of this straight set crap (5+ sets at the same weight). Only people with very, very good recovery abilities can handle that type of training (especially as strength increases) and if you have to ask, you aren’t one of them. Besides, who do you think is going to be adding weight to the bar at a faster pace, the guy who only has to wait until he can do it for 1 set, or the guy who has to wait until he can do it for 5 sets?

-Start spending more time actually in the gym learning what exercises work well FOR YOU, what you can and cannot handle in terms of volume/intensity/frequency/etc…more time in the kitchen/at the table eating, and less time obsessing over theory on the internet.

That answer may not have been what you were looking for, but it’s what you needed to hear.[/quote]

Thanks for the honest answer. I know I’ve jumped around a bit lately. It just seems everything I try stops working after about a week. By week two I’m usually fatigued, start hurting, or lift even worse than the last week. I know I’m definitely gonna up my calorie intake even though I thought I was eating a ton right now.

When I got to about 240 before I was taking in like 4000-4500 calories a day. I just felt bloated all the time. Maybe taking in too many carbs at one time. How many would you recommend? I think guessing right now I’m at about 250 grams of protein, not sure fats but probably too low, and about 250 carbs. [/quote]

The bloating could be due to several factors (carb intake, sodium intake, etc…), but even at your current weight, I’d suggest taking in at least 1.5 grams of protein per pound, 2g per pound if you’re really having a hard time gaining strength. That would mean getting somewhere between 290-390 grams of protein per day. I think that in itself will probably help you with strength gains.

Carbs are somewhat individual, some people can handle more than others. The daily activity levels will also dictate how many carbs you need. On days when you aren’t training, you don’t need as many carbs as days when you are (or, if you’re doing a traditional split, days like “legs” and “back” are going to require more carbs than “arms”). If bloating is an issue, stick to more complex carbs which will help to “keep things moving” if you know what I mean, and are generally healthier anyhow (more nutrients). CT has a good article on this site about “carb cycling” which gives some basic guidelines for how to adjust carb intake to activity levels. Then just adjust up or down from there depending on how your body responds (lacking energy=increase carb intake, starting to get a little too soft/bloated=decrease carb intake).

Fat intake is pretty much inverse to carb intake. The more carbs you take in the less fat you’ll need; the less carbs, the more fat. Choose healthy fat choices when possible (nuts, legumes, fish oil, etc…) but don’t be afraid of eating things like red meat either.

142

[quote]BBriere wrote:
Thanks everyone else too for the info. I definitely believe that high volume training is overrated. I never got burned out until I started doing it. I’m gonna give it a spin. [/quote]

There is a lot of confusion out there concerning this topic. Reading through muscle mags would have you believe that most pro’s are doing multiple straight sets for multiple exercises per body part.

In reality the only main difference between “high volume” and “low volume” routines is semantics.

For instance, “high volume” BB’er A trains chest and does:
-Incline BB bench
bar x 15
135 x 8
225 x 5
315 x 3
350 x 8 (hits failure)

He then says, “I did 1 warm-up set and 4 sets of incline BB bench”.

“Low volume” BB’er B trains chest and does:
-Incline BB bench
bar x 15
135 x 8
225 x 5 (starting to see a pattern?)
315 x 3
350 x 8 (hits failure)

He then says, “I did 1 set of incline BB bench”.

Both did the exact same workout, but BB A counted all of the sets leading up to and including his top set, while BB B only counted the top set.

That right there is the difference between “low volume” and “high volume” in the real world. You might find a very rare few who actually do multiple “straight sets” and reach a high level of development, but the vast, vast majority “ramp/pyramid” up to a top 1-2 balls to the wall set(s). Some guys will then drop the weight down and do a “back off” or “burn out” set where they go for higher reps. But that’s a matter of preference.

143

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:
Thanks everyone else too for the info. I definitely believe that high volume training is overrated. I never got burned out until I started doing it. I’m gonna give it a spin. [/quote]

There is a lot of confusion out there concerning this topic. Reading through muscle mags would have you believe that most pro’s are doing multiple straight sets for multiple exercises per body part.

In reality the only main difference between “high volume” and “low volume” routines is semantics.

For instance, “high volume” BB’er A trains chest and does:
-Incline BB bench
bar x 15
135 x 8
225 x 5
315 x 3
350 x 8 (hits failure)

He then says, “I did 1 warm-up set and 4 sets of incline BB bench”.

“Low volume” BB’er B trains chest and does:
-Incline BB bench
bar x 15
135 x 8
225 x 5 (starting to see a pattern?)
315 x 3
350 x 8 (hits failure)

He then says, “I did 1 set of incline BB bench”.

Both did the exact same workout, but BB A counted all of the sets leading up to and including his top set, while BB B only counted the top set.

That right there is the difference between “low volume” and “high volume” in the real world. You might find a very rare few who actually do multiple “straight sets” and reach a high level of development, but the vast, vast majority “ramp/pyramid” up to a top 1-2 balls to the wall set(s). Some guys will then drop the weight down and do a “back off” or “burn out” set where they go for higher reps. But that’s a matter of preference.

[/quote]

Thanks for the information. It’s always good to hear from someone that has definitely made the gains themselves and is willing to give advice without talking down so to speak. The idea of ramping weight is honestly a virtual unknown in most training articles. Even when you read ones written by some of the best known strength coaches. It’s funny how almost EVERY article you find says stuff like do 3-4 sets of 10-12 reps. The average reader assumes take a weight you can handle for say 4 sets of 10 reps. That’s basically what I did, and it got me overtrained in no time. Then you hear about something like DC or HIT and common logic says one set wouldn’t work. I think I applied that logic to my training with I,Bodybuilder which is why I stalled after about week 2.

Anyway, I’m pretty sure I’m gonna give the DC style training a spin. I’m not looking for a “magic program” by any means. It just looks like a routine that allows for maximum results without 5-6 days in the gym at 1 1/2 hours per day. I’ll probably stick to the A/B/A workout schedule. I’ve always liked that approach especially because if I’m busy and miss a workout it doesn’t throw the entire week off.

Thanks again.

144

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Dante’s post/description of the PDPP (for anyone who may have never heard of it, or just wants a refresher):

"I am going to show you how much exercise selection is of an utmost importance…and Im going to do this in a way thats going to make some of you unhappy for the next 8 weeks but there is a method to the madness.

I would like anyone reading this thread who is on the 2 way split…and feels their chest is lacking to do the following…and no there are no exceptions because this is my deal and im doing it my way.

Most gyms have the following machine…a cybex pec deck on a very slight incline…I know most of the major gyms out here have it…not a deep incline one…the very slight incline one that is close to vertical

I want you to throw your regular chest rotation in the garbage and use this machine every single chest day for the next 8 weeks or so…this is your chest exercise.

Will other parts of your chest probably go down a little bit…yea probably but they will go right back up with muscle memory after I teach you this example—in fact your chest will be much better in about 10-12 weeks when you go back to your regular 3 exercise chest rotation and I bet any money 80% of you will be saying “aint no way im taking that pec deck out of my rotation now…its in there with my smith incline press and my hammer strength flat press (or whatever your third exercise is) now”

Lets Begin:
Put the seat all the way up to the top,

put the notch to hold the arms all the way back (so you have to start at the very beginning–i think its got one notch after 6)…this is for the stretch of the movement and is very important—you arent going to bottom out here so put the notch all the way back for the arms. If you are hitting the rack when you go into your deep stretch, you arent doing it right.

Your pinky and ring finger are on the bottom of the pad (near that corner) the rest of your fingers are on the side of the pad…YOU PRESS THE PADS NOT THE HANDLES–A POWER PRESS OF THE PADS–im going to put a red arrow where your hand should be on the pad on the right so you see what i mean. Im also going to put a red arrow where the notch is to put the arms all the way back to get the full stretch.

Heres how i want reps done.

1)ass back against the pad, sternum held high, chest out, shoulders down and back at the beginning of the movement.

  1. YOU NEVER ROUND/ROLL FORWARD THE CHEST WHEN THE REPS GET HARD–YOU ALWAYS KEEP THE CHEST AND STERNUM HIGH…when the reps get really hard you are going to want to roll forward and press the handles together because it will be the only way you can do it—DONT–thats your last rep if you do—so now you know you cant do the roll forward or you lose the set—good— a little pressure on your ass

ok this is how i want a rep done–feet flat on floor–and on the stretch you can raise yourself about an inch (and youll see where this will come into play on the tough reps)–what i mean is you can kind of push with your feet and raise yourself about an inch (an inch only) in height on the back pad in the upper body on the negative portion of the movement…dont overthink this–its not going to be much but its going to help you greatly on the tough reps when you get a rhythm.

REP: its back into to full stretch with full air in your lungs, sternum high, head back, and that slight (and i mean slight–i dont mean 4-5 inches–i mean an inch) push with your feet to raise your torse upward and hold the stretch for “one onethousand two one thousand” count then push the handles together with your chest and sternum still held high----you can blow out your air BUT DONT ROLL YOUR CHEST AND TORSO FORWARD TO COMPLETE THE REP—chest and sternum held high!

Thats one rep—as you press the handles together you will automatically drop that inch that you pushed up with your feet and the very slight drop with momentum will give you a lil bit of oomph to complete the rep. When you get to the really tough reps that inch drop/momentum is going to get you 3-5 reps trust me. Those are the grind it out reps and they are golden so get your rhythm down.

First time doing this i want something like 50 pounds for 30 reps straight

(think thats easy? it will be for the first 15, and then the one onethousand, two onethousand pain will kick in and it will get a little more uncomfortable)

And then i want you guys to bump this up 10-15 pounds every week for the next 8 weeks every chest workout

And this is straight setted not rest paused.

Try to be a badass and keep it in the 20-30 rep range…youll fall out of it but try…and then at that point try to stay in the 15-20 range…youll fall out of it but try week after week

and then do the same thing for 10-15

id like to see something like this

50x30
65 x 27 next time
80 x 24 next time
95 x 21 next time
110 x 20 next time
125 x 16 next time
125 x 19 next time
140 x 14 next time

etc (and all this above is hypothetical—i want you going to failure here–complete utter failure)

and at that point i will have taught you all a lesson----you will see that you have more muscle mass on your sternum inner pec line than you have ever had previously–and you will do a most muscular in the mirror and see a great deal of thickness in your inner pec area than you ever had previously…and your going to come to realize how extremely important exercise selection is and doing an exercise that involves an enhanced stretch and then a press in a key mechanical position (sternum high chest high)

and at that point your going to go back and pick 3 rotated exercises for your chest and probably like i said have the pec deck presses in your rotation and really think about the other 2 exercises

Who is up for this — who is going to be my guinea pig? You dont have a chest anyway what is it going to hurt? Your going to lose 8 weeks of getting nowhere anyway doing it your way right? Try it out and let me prove to you what this stuff is all about.

When you do go back to your regular 3 exercise rotation your going to NOW have inner pec thickness this time along with GAINING BACK your old muscle mass in your chest in ONLY 2 weeks due to muscle memory…so dont worry about it."

Seriously? No one here has tried this? Scott? C_C?[/quote]

Don’t have a cybex machine. Would this do?

145

You can’t really turn that into a power move, you’d be better off with one of the old school pec deck with the large cushion pads than what you show there.

146

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

You could also try doing the “droop row” stretch, or even a rack chin stretch if you need a width stretch and don’t have a belt.[/quote]

Would that provide enough of a pull on your muscles? It seems like with this rope/doorknob pulling I’m really pulling on the muscle hard, maybe even more than with the hanging lat raise. But just hanging with as in rack chins or even more so with just holding onto a rope on a cable (for the droop rows) seems like it wouldn’t pull hard enough on your back muscles. Rack chins I guess would be similar to hanging lat stretches but I’d probably have to get some big dumbbells for that.

This is more out of interest I guess since the pull seems to feel like it’s working and I found a way to pull harder today but pushing my feet against something more stable

147

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

You could also try doing the “droop row” stretch, or even a rack chin stretch if you need a width stretch and don’t have a belt.[/quote]

Would that provide enough of a pull on your muscles? It seems like with this rope/doorknob pulling I’m really pulling on the muscle hard, maybe even more than with the hanging lat raise. But just hanging with as in rack chins or even more so with just holding onto a rope on a cable (for the droop rows) seems like it wouldn’t pull hard enough on your back muscles. Rack chins I guess would be similar to hanging lat stretches but I’d probably have to get some big dumbbells for that.

This is more out of interest I guess since the pull seems to feel like it’s working and I found a way to pull harder today but pushing my feet against something more stable[/quote]

Depends on how much weight you use. The rounded upper back actually increases the stretch on the lats, so you may not need as much weight as you would with the hanging lat stretch. You could also add plates to the stack once it gets easy to use the whole stack for the desired length of time.

With the rack chins, just place a loaded BB/DB on your lap and you should be fine. Increase the weight once you can hold it for the maximum desired length of time.

Also, the doorknob stretch is a thickness stretch, not a width stretch. So you’re comparing apples to oranges.

148

BBriere make a thread and post your diet in there (or post it here if Scott and co don’t mind)…

If you feel overly bloated/gassy here are some basic things you may want to consider:

-Fiber intake (!) esp. when drinking lots of shakes/large shakes.
-Some foods and some types of protein simply bloat some people, so avoid them… Can’t tell you which ones do that in your case, you have to find out yourself. If you eat mostly the same stuff every day, year in, year out, then that might lead to problems… I have multiple options for every meal and vary what I eat (keeping overall cals and macros roughly the same, of course) to some degree…
If some type of food bloats you, then you can literally go from full 6-pack to “roid gut” (bwahaha) and back within a day.
-some digestive enzyme type stuff can help, depends somewhat on which macros you have trouble digesting… In general, Bromelain is a good addition.
Stay away from all the HCL crap though and the tablets where you get 10 different additives… 2-3 total should be fine, and obviously depending on what it is.
You can read up on this in the official DC forum for example, or ask someone like Bricknyce.

149

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
So what do you guys doing DC think about this “new” perfect rep stuff? Clearly pretty opposite from DC training[/quote]

And if you’re talking about the “no grinding reps” and low-rep stuff etc… That’s because IBB is a different system. It lets you keep overall/general fatigue at bay… You can still do higher rep sets to failure after your ramp, if you feel strong that day or whatever…

You focus too much on differences between successful systems rather than looking at the similarities…

Those differences are just there because the systems are organized in a different way/have different roots (oly lifting vs. Post-failure/low volume bbing I guess)… But despite the differences both systems share the same similarities which practically all successful routines with similar goals share.
CT and Dante took the same basic aspects of lifting but each added a different twist, so to speak, and both work… Though CT’s approach is applicable for beginners and intermediates as well, while DC requires more experience before you can make it work as it is supposed to.

[/quote]

I do have a question on recovery here based on this:

  1. i’ve found ramping sets of 3 far more useful for me than ramping up in sets of 8 or 10, previously i found myself so tired from that i had nothing left to blast out the final set. I’m now handling weights and dumbells i thought were beyond me by miles

  2. I really like the 2way DC split, the way its organised and over 3 days suits me perfectly.

  3. I’m not really ready for the full DC rp thing yet i suspect, not to see full benefit. But i know you guys suggest doing 2 SS instead for a while

  4. Theres an earlier comment here about adding volume and how the 2 way split is on the limit of recovery

So, if i did the dc split, rotating exercises as well, but ramp up to a peak on sets of 3, then drop back maybe 15-20% and rep out, then drop another 10% and rep out for 2 SS, would that be too much? Im thinking of the ramping sets all being max efforts. Or would doing 2ss be a lot easier to recover from than all the RP work and offset that? Or should i just shut up and go down the gym to try it and see…?

150

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
BBriere make a thread and post your diet in there (or post it here if Scott and co don’t mind)…

If you feel overly bloated/gassy here are some basic things you may want to consider:

-Fiber intake (!) esp. when drinking lots of shakes/large shakes.
-Some foods and some types of protein simply bloat some people, so avoid them… Can’t tell you which ones do that in your case, you have to find out yourself. If you eat mostly the same stuff every day, year in, year out, then that might lead to problems… I have multiple options for every meal and vary what I eat (keeping overall cals and macros roughly the same, of course) to some degree…
If some type of food bloats you, then you can literally go from full 6-pack to “roid gut” (bwahaha) and back within a day.
-some digestive enzyme type stuff can help, depends somewhat on which macros you have trouble digesting… In general, Bromelain is a good addition.
Stay away from all the HCL crap though and the tablets where you get 10 different additives… 2-3 total should be fine, and obviously depending on what it is.
You can read up on this in the official DC forum for example, or ask someone like Bricknyce.
[/quote]

Ok, here is an example:

Breakfast: 1 cup of oatmeal, 1 1/2 cups milk, scoop of protein powder, banana or
6 eggs, 2 oz of deli ham, 1 oz of cheese, banana

Midmorning: 2 scoops protein powder in water, apple, 2 fiber tablets

Lunch: 1 1/2 chicken breasts, spinach, 1 serving of beans, sweet potato

Afternoon: 1 scoop of protein powder in water, orange (not always hungry in the afternoon though)

Pre-workout: raisins or cup of cheerios, 1 scoop of protein powder
Post-workout: Surge Recovery

Dinner: Usually meat and vegetables (I’m usually still kinda full from post workout drink)

When I calculated the calories last time I was at about 3200-3500 on workout days

I usually take fiber with protein shakes, much to the chigrin of my wife

I think one big factor before was high protein intake w/o fiber + acid reflux = bloating

Thanks for all the help so far

151

is your protein a concentrate or an isolate (assuming it is whey)? if it is concentrate, the lactose might what is causing the gas/bloating.

152

[quote]dropshot001 wrote:
is your protein a concentrate or an isolate (assuming it is whey)? if it is concentrate, the lactose might what is causing the gas/bloating. [/quote]

Yeah, my gf is lactose intolerant and had that same problem. We found that egg protein doesn’t produce any gas, is still one of the most complete proteins you can find, and has a fair amount of protein per scoop. So, if that’s an issue you could also try that.

153

It’s isolate. I’m not totally lactose intolerant. The only thing I can’t handle is milk. I have to buy that Lactaid stuff. It make me feels like an old man.

154

[quote]Mateus wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Mateus wrote:

3B
HS Machine Curls 11-20 rps
Pinwheel Curls 10-20 SS (want to change this)
Leg Press Calf Raises 10-12 SS
Sumo Press 15-25 SS
Front Squats 6-10 SS
Leg Press WM[/quote]

This sounds like such a stupid questions but here it goes. The pinwheel curl, when counting the reps are we supposed to be treating it like any other alternating exercise? 10-20 reps per arm right? And does it always stay a SS or can it be RPS?

155

[quote]uklifts wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
So what do you guys doing DC think about this “new” perfect rep stuff? Clearly pretty opposite from DC training[/quote]

And if you’re talking about the “no grinding reps” and low-rep stuff etc… That’s because IBB is a different system. It lets you keep overall/general fatigue at bay… You can still do higher rep sets to failure after your ramp, if you feel strong that day or whatever…

You focus too much on differences between successful systems rather than looking at the similarities…

Those differences are just there because the systems are organized in a different way/have different roots (oly lifting vs. Post-failure/low volume bbing I guess)… But despite the differences both systems share the same similarities which practically all successful routines with similar goals share.
CT and Dante took the same basic aspects of lifting but each added a different twist, so to speak, and both work… Though CT’s approach is applicable for beginners and intermediates as well, while DC requires more experience before you can make it work as it is supposed to.

[/quote]

I do have a question on recovery here based on this:

  1. i’ve found ramping sets of 3 far more useful for me than ramping up in sets of 8 or 10, previously i found myself so tired from that i had nothing left to blast out the final set. I’m now handling weights and dumbells i thought were beyond me by miles
    [/quote] FWIW: My regular style of ramping back in the day was more top-set focused.
    So I did not do the same reps on all warm-ups, but decreasing reps, and then whatever rep range I wanted on the top set (but this was not really auto-regulated the same way as IBB):
    Barxwhatever
    135x12
    225x8
    315x5
    405x3
    455x1 (didn’t want a 90 lb gap before my top set)
    495x6-10 or so (work set)
    for example (might have gone on to do another, heavier set as well if I felt like it)
    That’s how I’d do it when using regular bb training (not IBB ramping), but you can do the IBB stuff, too. [quote]

  2. I really like the 2way DC split, the way its organised and over 3 days suits me perfectly.

  3. I’m not really ready for the full DC rp thing yet i suspect, not to see full benefit. But i know you guys suggest doing 2 SS instead for a while

  4. Theres an earlier comment here about adding volume and how the 2 way split is on the limit of recovery

So, if i did the dc split, rotating exercises as well, but ramp up to a peak on sets of 3, then drop back maybe 15-20% and rep out, then drop another 10% and rep out for 2 SS, would that be too much? Im thinking of the ramping sets all being max efforts. Or would doing 2ss be a lot easier to recover from than all the RP work and offset that? Or should i just shut up and go down the gym to try it and see…?[/quote]

The triple rotation is there so advanced guys can progress, it is not useful for beginners unless you do all three exercises within a single week or so… We do them in two weeks, that’s not what I’d recommend for someone who can still progress by doing movements more frequently and needs to learn proper setup and technique.

The split as such you can use, sure, but it’s not really what I’d do in a IBB setting… For IBB style work, try a 3-way over 4-6 days per week (as many days as you can, can vary from week to week) or so, or one of the specialization routines out there now. Or even a 2-way over 4 days per week, but a 2-way in bbing means doing some 6 or so big exercises for different bodyparts in a session… That’s pushing things recovery and intensity wise…

156

[quote]Mateus wrote:

[quote]Mateus wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Mateus wrote:

3B
HS Machine Curls 11-20 rps
Pinwheel Curls 10-20 SS (want to change this)
Leg Press Calf Raises 10-12 SS
Sumo Press 15-25 SS
Front Squats 6-10 SS
Leg Press WM[/quote]

This sounds like such a stupid questions but here it goes. The pinwheel curl, when counting the reps are we supposed to be treating it like any other alternating exercise? 10-20 reps per arm right? And does it always stay a SS or can it be RPS?[/quote]

Some guys RP it… It’s supposed to be SS though. I would not RP it unless you have a good reason to do so.

Also, it is counted like any other alternating exercise, the 10-20 reps are for each arm respectively. Otherwise you’d really be doing 5-10 :slight_smile:

157

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

The triple rotation is there so advanced guys can progress, it is not useful for beginners unless you do all three exercises within a single week or so… We do them in two weeks, that’s not what I’d recommend for someone who can still progress by doing movements more frequently and needs to learn proper setup and technique.

The split as such you can use, sure, but it’s not really what I’d do in a IBB setting… For IBB style work, try a 3-way over 4-6 days per week (as many days as you can, can vary from week to week) or so, or one of the specialization routines out there now. Or even a 2-way over 4 days per week, but a 2-way in bbing means doing some 6 or so big exercises for different bodyparts in a session… That’s pushing things recovery and intensity wise…

[/quote]

Thanks for that, very useful reply. On the rotation side of things, i’ve read on the “other site” that its a vital part of the DC thing. I didnt want to question it over there, but i do like the idea like you say of sticking with and progressing on a few vital exercises, more frequently to get them properly ingrained.

On the split front, i can always get mon/wed/fri. tues on and off but awkward, thurs generally cant and weekends stacked also with work. thats why i dont like a 4way split as i know im unlikely to stick with it. 3 way is a max, and ive preferred a 2 way A and B through the week for a bit more frequency, 3 of each every 2 weeks.

The DC is chest/shoulder/tri/back width/back thick and then biceps/forearms/calves/quads/hams. So 5 exercises a day. I was wondering if thats too much for me to going perhaps to chest/shoulder/back w/back t and then biceps/triceps/quads/hams. i like the idea of working the whole chest-shoulder-back area all together since it all seems to work together.

Anyway I’ve gone off topic now being in the DC thread, its not about me but thanks for the input.

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Sentoguy, CC, Scott M and other experienced members…

When ramping up to just one top set do you usually do multiple exercises when not on DC? I know for DC there’s just the one exercise per muscle group but lets just say you were to do a normal set. It seems like that is the case however the examples I’m thinking of are when just working the muscle about once per week.

For example, right now I’m doing 5x5 incline bench but when I switched back to my school gym with a higher incline the progression got kind of screwed so I’m thinking I’ll just go to 2 top sets, one at 4-6 reps and one at 8-10. This is on one of my 2 “push” days per week (this one consists of incline DB bench, CGBP, Military Press, and laterals…the other one is BB bench, pin press, OH ext and heavy laterals).

I would imagine that since I’m doing CGBP for 3x8 afterwards I probably won’t need another chest exericse, but I figured I’d ask since I’m dropping down from a 5x5 (which was actually progressing really well until I got back to my school gym)

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[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Sentoguy, CC, Scott M and other experienced members…

When ramping up to just one top set do you usually do multiple exercises when not on DC? I know for DC there’s just the one exercise per muscle group but lets just say you were to do a normal set. It seems like that is the case however the examples I’m thinking of are when just working the muscle about once per week.

For example, right now I’m doing 5x5 incline bench but when I switched back to my school gym with a higher incline the progression got kind of screwed so I’m thinking I’ll just go to 2 top sets, one at 4-6 reps and one at 8-10. This is on one of my 2 “push” days per week (this one consists of incline DB bench, CGBP, Military Press, and laterals…the other one is BB bench, pin press, OH ext and heavy laterals).

I would imagine that since I’m doing CGBP for 3x8 afterwards I probably won’t need another chest exericse, but I figured I’d ask since I’m dropping down from a 5x5 (which was actually progressing really well until I got back to my school gym)[/quote]

When doing a bodypart split (like say chest and triceps workout) I wouldn’t really bother ramping up on the second/third exercise for each body part. Generally you’re going to do the do the exercise with the greatest weight potential first anyhow. So after that, your muscle already has plenty of blood in it and is already accustomed to handling heavy weight, which area really the points of ramping in the first place.

Maybe if it was a very different movement (say like deads and then BB rows) I might do 1, maybe 2 acclimation sets, just to get used to the movement a little. But other than that it’s really not needed IMO.

With the way your current workout is set up though, I’d do at least a couple of ramp sets on CGBP, and Military press, since, although they are all pressing exercises, they target different muscles and are fairly different movement patterns. You don’t need to worry about ramping on the lateral raises though.

As far as whether to do multiple exercises per muscle group, that’s going to depend mostly on the split/frequency.

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i hope i’m not hijacking anybodies post !

I am about 2-3 weeks into my blast and for the past week & a 1/2, most of my lifts are stalling! I’m beating the logbook by a rep here and there but a few of my lifts have even decreased. This definitely sounds like a ‘systematic’ fatigue rather then stalling on particular lifts but it doesn’t make any sense for it to be happening so soon! I’ve read that Dante says your lifts should be going up by at least 2 reps (or tie the old record with 5+ lbs (or was it 10 ?!).

Should I rotate in new exercises to replace the ones that are stalling the most? Maybe cruise early then planned? Or could it just be a temporary kinda thing. My strength levels seem to fluctuate but usually workout to workout - not week to week.

Thanks