DB Rows - What Do You Use?

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ve never really felt the need to go over a pair of 125’s, I do mine bent over with both arms at once (much better contraction than with a barbell). (“if you can’t hold it there, then you didn’t lift it with your muscles, you threw it there” - Yates)

S
[/quote]

I get the point, but core stabilization will be a limiting factor here, even if your back muscles could hold the weight[/quote]

Oh I agree,… to an extent. When you see a kid ‘rowing’ some ridiculously heavy dumbell, and it looks like his arms can’t be more than 15",… you have to wonder if there’s any actual muscle building effect even taking place. For most trainers that reach a certain level of experience, I totally think some body english is necessary to overload the muscle, but when you’re all hunched over, and there is absolutely no arch to the back (which would actually allow the muscles to contract as the scapulae move inward),… well, it makes me think that the line was crossed a while back.

S

22

I love this movement. I did the 110 for a rp set of 15 last week (no straps in my bag). I love to really stretch/flare the lat at the bottom.

Stu- You mentioned doing 2 handed db rows. Seeing as how the neutral hand position, in my opinion (possibly yours) is the reason for such a good contraction, ya think doing them with a swiss bar/neutral grip skullcrusher type bar would be a similar animal?

Another thing: Anyone have an opinion on really stretching/flaring the lat at the bottom versus not?

23

I am generally pretty strict with my form on most exercises, but dumbell rows are an exercise that I feel is much more productive for me if I use some english. I started out doing them really strict and developed a good mind muscle connection to where I can cheat quite a bit and still feel them in my back. This is my second favorite back exercise behind deadlifts. Like everything else, you have to find what works for you. Some people may get more out of this exercise doing it strict and feel it allows them to target the muscle better, while others, like myself, get more out of it with some oomph. Matt Kroc is pretty much the person who made this cheat rows popular to the point many call them Kroc rows, and I would say his back development speaks for itself. I have personally improved my back a good deal in the past year, and in that time, my three primary exercises have been deadlifts, dumbell rows, and chinups.

Would I recommend that everyone do their rows like I do? Not necessarily. I think each person has to find what works best for them as far as targeting the muscle, progression, etc.

I know some people are big on visual evidence so I do have before and after pictures of my back, but I can’t figure out how to post multiple pictures in one post so I will just leave them out for now.

24

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ve never really felt the need to go over a pair of 125’s, I do mine bent over with both arms at once (much better contraction than with a barbell). (“if you can’t hold it there, then you didn’t lift it with your muscles, you threw it there” - Yates)

S
[/quote]

I haven’t done DBs with both arms in a while. Not sure why. I’m going to sub them for BB rows next back day.

The other thing about heavy 1-arm DB rows is that they absolutely hammer my obliques. Which could be good for the “core” but I’m not big enough yet,or tall enough, to balance out any extra mid-thickness.

25

I’ve recently started doing DB rows again. I do them last in my back workout and I use quite a bit of body english, I feel that this exercise is well suited for some lose form. I also do some kind of chest supported rows where I go strict though.

26

For Ninja rows, my PR is 300lbs which I did 13 reps this weekend. It’s on tape too, so if you want proof, I got 'em.

27

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
For Ninja rows, my PR is 300lbs which I did 13 reps this weekend. It’s on tape too, so if you want proof, I got 'em.[/quote]

Matt Kroc, is that you??

My best is 170 x 20 LR
I don’t have super strict form, but I don’t jerk my body a ton. I haven’t ever really gone balls out with these and might just see how many I can get at 170 or 180 at some point if I feel like inflicting a ton of pain haha.

28

I like to do these strictly. As Stu paraphrased Dorian, you have to be able to hold the weight at the top, otherwise you’re just using momentum to jerk the weight up – you didn’t ‘muscle’ it up. Nonetheless, Bruno, that is terrific power on display. I like to use the rack rather than a bench to stabilise with my other arm, and bring the dumbell up to my hip, like starting a lawnmower. I squeeze it there. Most I will do is 120 for reps, perhaps 5 or 6.

But if you’ve got the mind muscle, jerk it up I guess. I just find I can really feel the stretch and squeeze if I do these strictly, with almost no core/trunk rotation.

29

[quote]Sexxxton wrote:
I like to do these strictly. As Stu paraphrased Dorian, you have to be able to hold the weight at the top, otherwise you’re just using momentum to jerk the weight up – you didn’t ‘muscle’ it up. Nonetheless, Bruno, that is terrific power on display. I like to use the rack rather than a bench to stabilise with my other arm, and bring the dumbell up to my hip, like starting a lawnmower. I squeeze it there. Most I will do is 120 for reps, perhaps 5 or 6.

But if you’ve got the mind muscle, jerk it up I guess. I just find I can really feel the stretch and squeeze if I do these strictly, with almost no core/trunk rotation.[/quote]

You might also like to try some 1 arm chest supported rows on an incline bench becasue they are very similar to the exercise you are describing. I do these from time to time when my lower back is burned out, or sometimes I’ll just throw them in at the end of a workout. They will hit lats well and force you to stay strict.

I do them similarly to the person in this video at 47 seconds.

30

[quote]grinder001 wrote:

[quote]ParagonA wrote:
I do one-arm DB Row ratchets. My heaviest set is 3 x 202 lbs (92kg), which is the heaviest dumbbell in my gym…[/quote]

You lucky man…60kg is the heaviest in probably all the gyms in my country…

One arm T-bars are just not the same…sigh[/quote]

Really? I actually prefer 1-arm T-bars to DB Rows. I get a much better contraction in my lats, and can load up a BB quite a bit more than a DB. Anyone else feel this way, or am I all alone on this one?

31

[quote]thephantom wrote:

[quote]grinder001 wrote:

[quote]ParagonA wrote:
I do one-arm DB Row ratchets. My heaviest set is 3 x 202 lbs (92kg), which is the heaviest dumbbell in my gym…[/quote]

You lucky man…60kg is the heaviest in probably all the gyms in my country…

One arm T-bars are just not the same…sigh[/quote]

Really? I actually prefer 1-arm T-bars to DB Rows. I get a much better contraction in my lats, and can load up a BB quite a bit more than a DB. Anyone else feel this way, or am I all alone on this one?[/quote]

I have yet to try it, but I may have to seeing as I’m knocking on the door of my college weightrooms heaviest DBs. Do you just set up a barbell in the middle of the db area and row there? I guess you could just set a barbell up in some open space and do the rows with the opposite hand on a knee. What do you do?

32

Also have tried one-arm T-bar rows… I don’t like them at all, and my low back gets fried. I just want fuckin heavier DBs damnit!

33

[quote]thephantom wrote:

[quote]grinder001 wrote:

[quote]ParagonA wrote:
I do one-arm DB Row ratchets. My heaviest set is 3 x 202 lbs (92kg), which is the heaviest dumbbell in my gym…[/quote]

You lucky man…60kg is the heaviest in probably all the gyms in my country…

One arm T-bars are just not the same…sigh[/quote]

Really? I actually prefer 1-arm T-bars to DB Rows. I get a much better contraction in my lats, and can load up a BB quite a bit more than a DB. Anyone else feel this way, or am I all alone on this one?[/quote]

Yes, really…I do them like Bruno does them, although I go slower on the negative and prefer standing with hand on dumbell rack…Using that body english, explosive somewhat twisting scapula contraction style does amazing shit to you back and yes I agree with Bruno it does carry over to the dead.

If you can’t use your scapulae properly in things like normal BB rows etc. and don’t feel the back thickness muscles work then doing them in this style will probably feel wrong to you…but once you master that super hard and quick scapulae contraction you will see why we do it with some body english…

34

[quote]grinder001 wrote:
Yes, really…I do them like Bruno does them, although I go slower on the negative and prefer standing with hand on dumbell rack…Using that body english, explosive somewhat twisting scapula contraction style does amazing shit to you back and yes I agree with Bruno it does carry over to the dead.

If you can’t use your scapulae properly in things like normal BB rows etc. and don’t feel the back thickness muscles work then doing them in this style will probably feel wrong to you…but once you master that super hard and quick scapulae contraction you will see why we do it with some body english…[/quote]

Just so we’re on the same page: with ‘explosive somewhat twisting scapula contraction style’ you’re talking about forcefully retracting the scapula in the end position, right?

If not, please elaborate a bit, since I always found it pretty hard to feel my scap at all while doing db rows - as opposed to bb rows, where I’ve no trouble at all using and feeling my scaps.

35

[quote]FattyFat wrote:

[quote]grinder001 wrote:
Yes, really…I do them like Bruno does them, although I go slower on the negative and prefer standing with hand on dumbell rack…Using that body english, explosive somewhat twisting scapula contraction style does amazing shit to you back and yes I agree with Bruno it does carry over to the dead.

If you can’t use your scapulae properly in things like normal BB rows etc. and don’t feel the back thickness muscles work then doing them in this style will probably feel wrong to you…but once you master that super hard and quick scapulae contraction you will see why we do it with some body english…[/quote]

Just so we’re on the same page: with ‘explosive somewhat twisting scapula contraction style’ you’re talking about forcefully retracting the scapula in the end position, right?

If not, please elaborate a bit, since I always found it pretty hard to feel my scap at all while doing db rows - as opposed to bb rows, where I’ve no trouble at all using and feeling my scaps.

[/quote]

Yes, the ‘explosive somewhat twisting scapula contraction style’ was referring to that intense but brief contraction achieved using that particular style. It also has a way of overloading the stretch position when done correctly this way

Once I start the row in the stretched position I actively think of lifting only my shoulder-almost like a horizontal type shrug- while simultaneously pulling up with the elbow (takes some practice to really feel this).

During this you will experience a certain slow down point near the top where I then take a very slight dip towards the weight (also takes a while to get that sweetspot) to get my elbow/shoulder as high and back as possible and thus achieve a very good scapular contraction. When taking a look at bruno or Kroc or anyone getting great results from this style you will always see that slight dip.

Immediatly after that little dip I actively try to keep resisting the weight down-not a slow negative but controlled and I then go into that long stretch and explode up again. So the ‘twisting’ referred to the low position of the shoulder at the stretched position and then the high position at the contraction…Hope that is clear enough :slight_smile:

BTW I am crazy about BB rows as well.
Yates are now my new favourite after switching a few months back- I did wide pronated grip for years. I like the extra weight that can be added and they way they hit my lagging lower lats as well as upper back…

I usually don’t do DB rows anymore because of the light dumbells in my country, but now and then I will do some with extreme high reps (30 or so) as a finisher after rows…Pity, because I really love the DB’s. The One arm T-bar, although somewhat free still has that one fixed point and just is not the same as the totally free DB’s. Guess I need to make some form of strap to tie the DB’s together or something…

36

Thanks, man,
I’m giving db rows another try.

Regarding db rows: I can load up my db to 330 lbs, no problem (not that I could db row that weight). Just takes a longer db. That’s at home, though. The heaviest db at the gym I’ve used to frequent was/is 88 lbs. A fucking shame.

37

Sure, no prob

Yeah, 88lbs IS a fucking shame- nice for some pinwheels :slight_smile:

Damn 330lbs is Heavy Barbell Row territory!! Just a 200lbs DB wil make me extremly happy already…

Edit: one more thing I do is keep the dumbeel at about 45 deg to my body and not parallel. The back end is further away from my body and the front is under my body…hope it is clear. just feels more natural for me…It is still parallel to the floor though…

Notice to where the front part of the DB is pulled (lower chest area) and how it applies to his traps…I noticed some people in my gym and this forum pull more towards the hips etc. Although not wrong in anyway, but will hit lats traps differently than what I have described…

38

I’ve been doing DB Rows standing but bent over with the opposite hand on the DB rack… I feel good lat movement with my right lat, but my left feels like there is no lat movement at all when I mimic the same exact movement… Always strange to me…

39

Got it, grinder. I’m holding the db the same way.

[quote]IAgainstI wrote:
I feel good lat movement with my right lat, but my left feels like there is no lat movement at all when I mimic the same exact movement… Always strange to me…[/quote]
I used to have the same problem. Pulling the db more to my butt had taken care of that.

40

[quote]Therizza wrote:

[quote]thephantom wrote:

[quote]grinder001 wrote:

[quote]ParagonA wrote:
I do one-arm DB Row ratchets. My heaviest set is 3 x 202 lbs (92kg), which is the heaviest dumbbell in my gym…[/quote]

You lucky man…60kg is the heaviest in probably all the gyms in my country…

One arm T-bars are just not the same…sigh[/quote]

Really? I actually prefer 1-arm T-bars to DB Rows. I get a much better contraction in my lats, and can load up a BB quite a bit more than a DB. Anyone else feel this way, or am I all alone on this one?[/quote]

I have yet to try it, but I may have to seeing as I’m knocking on the door of my college weightrooms heaviest DBs. Do you just set up a barbell in the middle of the db area and row there? I guess you could just set a barbell up in some open space and do the rows with the opposite hand on a knee. What do you do?[/quote]

I just put one end of a barbell in a corner (wall or machine uprights work well), straddle the bar, put my non-working hand on my knee and get to rowing. Straps help a good bit due to the revolving nature of the barbell. I just find that I can lock myself into that “power groove” much better with this as opposed to a DB row. Different strokes for different folks though.