a jerk is explosive, you drive with the legs push simultaneously, and catch the bar in a locked out position overhead.
a press is slower and relies on the triceps to lock it out rather than momentum from the initial drive.
as far as your workout, I’d say probably too much volume, throw out some of that stuff but add some external rotations or cuban presses for rotator health
My shoulders actually started popping out when I stopped doing any direct shoulder work AND cut down a few %BF. You might have more lard on your arms than you know, and that can make you lose definition.
All I was doing that involved shoulders was power cleans, push-presses, dips, farmer’s walks, bench-press, and cable rows. Every once in a while I’d do a few sets of Arnold presses.
Why don’t you give us some lifiting numbers? How much do you bench, clean&press, etc? Maybe your intensity does suck but you’re just not aware of it.
You’re young, and you’re strong, so you should be able to tolerate a lot of volume. Nevertheless, you’re not getting the results you want on this particular bodypart.
So you have two options:
Specialize more.
De-specialize.
Personally, I’d recommend number 2. I’d do the four-day split, as was recommended above, but do it chest/quads/back/hams (one focus per day), rotating every six days (or seven if you want the extra recovery. Don’t do any specialized delt work other than maybe a few sets of lateral rasies to hit the medial delts. Front and rear delts will be taken care of automatically by the various pressing and rowing movements that you should be doing.
If you’re taking every fourth week off, I agree that you’re probably overtraining. Yes, I know you don’t have to, but if you’re even worried about it at your age you’re probably on the wrong side of the line. Also, taking one week out of four off isn’t going to help with your fatloss. Better to do a more reasonable routine and be more consistent. If you want to take time off, schedule a half-week every 8 weeks or a full week every 12 weeks.
Also, just as a general point for future reference: If you’re dieting (as I assume you are for fat loss), you want less volume in your routine, not more. It may seem counter-intuitive, but really, you’ll see better gains.
BassGuy - I thought that a snatch was from floor/hang to overhead, and a clean was from floor/hang to shoulder height. You said a jerk was a snatch or a push press, depending on where the weight starts.
Can anyone give a detailed description or point me to something? It would be much appreciated.
char-dawg: thx for the advice! i was worried that 8-12 weeks would be too long without a rest period (as i have read elsewhere… but then again, prob not a trustworthy source compared to real experience, not to mention that advice might not have been targetted at someone whos only 24 i.e. me)… i also didnt realize that less volume meant higher fat loss… while i know the reasons why things like HIIT is better for fat loss etc, can anyone point to an article that i could read about doing less volume for increased fat loss? btw, ya i am dieting… pretty standard low carb high protein/fat diet…
i gotta lot to think about when devising my new split…
fucking blind leading the blind! Your problem is simple, you are doing a routine and not a program. Learn about creating a program, the info can be found in the previous issues section or FAQ’s section. Have you read, and studied these articles? If not, then get your ass in gear. This forum is not intended to teach such concepts, it is intended to discuss them. It seems you have not taught yourself and are relying on others to do it for you. Get busy!
it seems your being a ridiculous snob. im sorry i wasted your time with reading this thread… dont like it, go fuckin read a different one. some ppl dont mind helping others.
Lower volume doesn’t help with fat loss per se, it helps with retaining muscle while on a diet.
So the fat loss should come from your diet, not your routine, while your routine should be geared towards trying to keep as much Lean Body Mass (LBM) as possible under the circumstances.
Oh, and did everyone hear that? He said that I was helpful. Heh heh heh…
Here’s something I copied from CT’s Lair that gives more detail:
"I’ll say it once and for all: the purpose of strength-training while dieting is primarily to prevent muscle loss while on a caloric deficit. A lot of gurus now like to use strength training exercises to burn fat by using long series (15-20+ repetitions) and short rest intervals (30-60 seconds). Their logic is that this form of training increases growth hormone output. GH being a lipolytic (increased fat usage) hormone they argue that a training method leading to a great level of GH will naturally lead to important fat utilization. This theory is interesting however in the real world it is not that effective. Why? Consider that when a bodybuilder uses exogenous human growth hormone a minimum dose of 2IU per day for at least 3 months is required to produce noticeable changes. Many bodybuilders even argue that below 4IU per day is useless for body composition purposes. The medical dose recommended for GH is around 0.20 to 0.5 IU/kg per day, so for a 90kg individual (200lbs) this comes up to a daily dose of 2.6 to 6.5IU. And this is for medical use, which is often too low to cause any “bodybuilding” results. As a comparison, the natural production of GH by the body varies from 1IU to 2IU per day (so maybe 0.25 to 0.5IU during exercise). So it is unlikely that the slight, transient, increase in GH levels from strength training would cause any significant short term improvements in body composition.
High-intensity strength exercises (in the 70-100% range) are better than low intensity strength exercises (in the 40-70% range) while dieting. The higher training load helps you preserve strength and muscle while on a hypocaloric diet much better than super-high volume/low intensity workouts.
We’ve been brainwashed by the various muscle magazines to believe that you should do high rep training for definition. This is absolutely ridiculous! Sure you use a little more energy, but think about it: the higher the training volume, the more energy you need to recover. The more glycogen you burn while strength training, the more carbs you’ll need to recover and progress. When on a hypocaloric diet your body has a lowered anabolic drive, meaning that it can’t synthesize as much protein into muscle. A super-high volume of work leads to a lot of microtrauma to the muscle structures; a lot of microtrauma requires a great protein synthesis increase.
So if you use high-volume/low-intensity training while dieting you’ll breakdown more muscle and build up less. Not exactly good news! Perhaps one of the greatest benefits of high-rep training is an increase in blood and nutrient flow to the muscles, but if you have a reduced amount of nutrients available in your body, this benefit is pretty much wasted."
So the advice above to read more was good. You should take it.
A Clean & Jerk is a clean up to the racked position(bar on shoulders) then the jerk is simply a push press. At least to my understanding. The only difference I can think of is when jerking it(the weight that is…) one may choose to split his legs, for better balance. The Clean & press is again a clean up to the racked position, and then I would say a more controlled press. Not to sure about the clean and press. Someone please correct me if any of this is wrong. I hope I have explained it so you can all understand, my wording wasnt to good.
gq you were given about thirty options in this thread. i would cut out all shoulder work and just concentrate on squats, deads, rows, chins, and bench presses.check back in 8 weeks. And if one of the reasons you take off from lifting is that you want to enjoy the summer,then youve got problems. either you are working out too long, or you are lazy. one or the other. Thats my tough love of the day.
actually i am planning on something along those lines goldberg…
and u hit the nail right on the head. someone like me who everyday looks forward to the next day when i go back into the gym for my avg of 1.25 hours of work (not inluding cardio afterwards) is bone lazy. thats my tough love
A push press and a jerk are different. Think of a push press as a “cheat” overhead press. You use some leg drive at the beginning to help get the weight moving, then you lock it out with your arms at the top. The jerk is almost all leg drive. You pop the bar up using leg drive, then you quickly split the legs (split jerk) or rebend the knees (power/push jerk) to receive the bar at arms’ length overhead.
just finished my last shoulder workout as i switch to my new split next week… and well im definetly dropping almost all shoulder work (will prob keep military press, and one other exercise only). cause today i added 20lbs to my military press out of nowhere. i attribute this to the fact that ive been really workin hard on my bench press lately, particularly my incline bench. im betting thats where all the improvements came from. so i can already see first hand that the direct shoulder work im doin is doin balls compared to the other pressing movements etc. so ya, u guys were right, drop the rest of the stuff