If I ate 500 grams of protein, “whatever else I wanted to eat” would be “not a damn thing.”
[quote]thomas.galvin wrote:
If I ate 500 grams of protein, “whatever else I wanted to eat” would be “not a damn thing.”[/quote]
Yes but you don’t weight 415 pounds.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
<<< Beings the only advice I’ve ever seen you give is to eat more, I think I have actually always agreed with you…
I don’t know where I’m even going with these posts, as I really don’t even see myself disagreeing. I’m probably just all hot and bothered because I’m one of those new people everyone is writing off, lol.
I promise you he has proffered advice far beyond that on many occasions, but given the fact that no other advice matters if people refuse to eat it is true that that has been said many many times.
Also. Attitude has as much to do with being “written off” as how much experience you have. I haven’t found you to have an arrogant know it all attitude around here and have not written you off for instance. That doesn’t mean you haven’t said a few boneheaded things here and there, but people are all human man.
Even really young guys can redeem themselves as well.
This Triple10sets guy for instance or whatever he calls himself showed up here with an attitude you could cut with a knife, but is learning that he will not be taken seriously talking like a punk to everybody. Hence I’ve revised my opinion of him.
All anybody is saying is if you need help your highest likelihood of finding it is with somebody who’s closer to where you want to get than you are. If they’re worth listening to they 're going to help you think yourself as well. Nobody means every single syllable they utter is for you either.[/quote]
Very humbling post. Puts things into perfect perspective. Thanks.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
Beings the only advice I’ve ever seen you give is to eat more, I think I have actually always agreed with you…
Dude, I want you to go find the last post of mine where the response was “eat more”. If that is all you hear, that means there is something wrong with your perception.[/quote]
I was just trying to point out that you’re THE advocate of eating big and not worrying about a few extra pounds of fat.
I was really just trying to give the newbs like myself, who do actually mean well, a voice. I know what you all are saying though.
CT, this is exhibit A:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1969315
As with most things the middle ground is often the best place to be. You dont have to eat so much that you get fat because you have gain 10lbs of fat and 6 oz of muscle, and you dont have to focus both on losing bodyfat and gaining muscle simulataneously.
As a general rule you shouldnt be too concerned with your bodyfat when you are really trying to gain muscle, though you should have some cut off point, and this varies for everyone.
Now if you are inexperienced and have fat to lose, you would be better served doing moderate cardiovascular exercise, 3 days 30 mins, eating relatively clean but not cutting calories too much because you want to take advantage of the fact that you have been eating like a cow for years and you can easily eat enough calories to build muscle (after neural adaptation) and still lose fat because you can cut into your former caloric intake so much.
Now for a person who is not really overweight just overfat, or for the typical gym goer who is overfat, overweight but still has a good amount of muscle, when you seriously start losing weight, you should consider yourself done building muscle for the moment.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
<<< This Triple10sets guy for instance or whatever he calls himself showed up here with an attitude you could cut with a knife, but is learning that he will not be taken seriously talking like a punk to everybody. Hence I’ve revised my opinion of him. >>>[/quote]
I may have to re-revise this opinion again.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Experience gets treated like it isn’t important around here.
I just wanted to toss this out there: The people spewing information that they read HAS COME FROM EXPERIENCE. Even though all they did was read it and yeah, they may look like a pole, the writers have that experience. The advice they give is the same whether it comes from a Chad Waterbury or some skinny kid, the words and the advice is still the same. The skinnies regurgitating it probably haven’t put it to good use.
I’m not totally discounting experience, I personally prefer bigger guys like X offering advice because they have nothing to sell. When it comes down to it, the writers have to sell themselves to make money. Some of the bigger guys don’t benefit at all from offering advice so I do appreciate it.
I think this post went in two different directions, but I just wanted to throw this out there, for what it’s worth…
What makes you think Chad Waterbury (or any other author) is right about everything he writes about? What makes you think it will work for those tossing the info with no personal experience?
You are right, they do need to sell a product because that is how they make their living. Their opinion is also biased based on their own personal character…which is why you get statements like, “bodybuilders can’t walk up stairs” as if they are so out of shape.
I can climb and run up stairs just fine.
It looks like Waterbury was wrong about something.
The difference is, those without a product to sell don’t have a few hundred newbies using their every statement as if it were written in The Holy Bible or The Constitution.[/quote]
Great post. The authors are all quite good, but just remember there are several people who are great thinkers and have quite effective approaches to training, and are just as knowledgable as some of the authors. Prof. X being one
[quote]Professor X wrote:
CT, this is exhibit A:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1969315
[/quote]
I can provide an anecdote –
Tired of carrying a belly, I decided to aim for the 10% challenge, starting at approx 18-19%BF, LM of 180lbs. In 11 weeks I lost 11lbs of fat and gained 6lbs of muscle - this according to various measurements ie scales, tapes and calipers. To gain 6lbs muscle while in a calorie deficit was fairly pleasing. I look better, feel better, and am so much more looking forward to hitting some mass cycles without having a belly. Though I havent reached 10% I am glad I did it.
My point I guess would be it is up to the individual and what they prefer. Since Ive actually gained muscle while losing fat I dont see how my lean mass progress has been hampered at all.
[quote]Scotacus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
CT, this is exhibit A:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1969315
I can provide an anecdote –
Tired of carrying a belly, I decided to aim for the 10% challenge, starting at approx 18-19%BF, LM of 180lbs. In 11 weeks I lost 11lbs of fat and gained 6lbs of muscle - this according to various measurements ie scales, tapes and calipers. To gain 6lbs muscle while in a calorie deficit was fairly pleasing. I look better, feel better, and am so much more looking forward to hitting some mass cycles without having a belly. Though I havent reached 10% I am glad I did it.
My point I guess would be it is up to the individual and what they prefer. Since Ive actually gained muscle while losing fat I dont see how my lean mass progress has been hampered at all.
[/quote]
If you were really at 18 or 19% it is no surprise that you were able to lose and gain at the same time. Without putting numbers on it, nobody has said one could not do what you say. Keep it up and let us know what happens though. I’ll tell you what,ll happen, again without numbers because everybody’s different.
You will at some point short of either really lean or really big stop making consistent progress at least one way or the other, but probably both. You will hit a point where you will be forced to choose. It’s the people at that point that I’m concerned with. Hell, when I started training again fat almost literally fell of me while I also made steady size and strength gains, but I had PLENTY of fat to spare for a while.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Scotacus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
CT, this is exhibit A:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1969315
I can provide an anecdote –
Tired of carrying a belly, I decided to aim for the 10% challenge, starting at approx 18-19%BF, LM of 180lbs. In 11 weeks I lost 11lbs of fat and gained 6lbs of muscle - this according to various measurements ie scales, tapes and calipers. To gain 6lbs muscle while in a calorie deficit was fairly pleasing. I look better, feel better, and am so much more looking forward to hitting some mass cycles without having a belly. Though I havent reached 10% I am glad I did it.
My point I guess would be it is up to the individual and what they prefer. Since Ive actually gained muscle while losing fat I dont see how my lean mass progress has been hampered at all.
If you were really at 18 or 19% it is no surprise that you were able to lose and gain at the same time. Without putting numbers on it, nobody has said one could not do what you say. Keep it up and let us know what happens though. I’ll tell you what,ll happen, again without numbers because everybody’s different.
You will at some point short of either really lean or really big stop making consistent progress at least one way or the other, but probably both. You will hit a point where you will be forced to choose. It’s the people at that point that I’m concerned with. Hell, when I started training again fat almost literally fell of me while I also made steady size and strength gains, but I had PLENTY of fat to spare for a while.[/quote]
Based on what Ive read here I would not argue with you, though I cannot claim to speak from experience. I dont know how much of this came from the fact that I was back in the gym consistantly, as I had been training for awhile before I altered diet/routines for fat loss/muscle gain. Currently, I reside at around 13% and do not feel the need to pursue 10% at this point, as Ive made noticable change and frankly want more muscle before reducing BF% more. But these decisions to me seem intuitive. I dont get people that chase numbers, like the individual in the thread at 135lbs LBM.
Er when i started the gym i was overweight but my height/build kept me from looking to dire.
I never EVER heard of complexes/anything when i started just lifted LOTS of weights and fat fell off me from what i now know was muscle is the best fat burner ever ^^
So anyone cutting for 16 week like exhibit a needs a smack on the face and told to wake up building muscle is harder but it will burn fat for you !
Also i vote give Prof. X a chance to write for T-Nation i for 1 would read his articles.
[quote]big balls wrote:
By Trevor Smith
Pizza, chocolate, cheeseburgers, french-fries, kentucky fried chicken, chinese food, ice-cream and soda. No, no, this is not the food list for my next holiday party. This is, in fact, what I have come to learn is the mainstay of most succesful and huge pro�??s diets in the off-season.
I apologize if I shattered anyone�??s misconception about what the Pro�??s eat. The fact is, the metabolism of the average high level amateur or pro is kicking at a higher level than your average Ed. Because of this, they can get away with eating whatever they want pretty much all year long�??with the exception being contest prep time.
Personally I feel that, unless you are holding quite a bit of bodyfat, it is fool hardy to eat clean all the time. You need look no further than all the big-boys in the sport to find out if this theory holds any water (and fat too!)
You look at someone like Shawn Ray. Great bodybuilder no doubt, but great for circa 1987 where his physique seems to have been stuck in the past 12 years. “Eating Clean” has resulted in a number of pro�??s who�??s physiques have remained stagnent and unchanged.
I remember a conversation I had with Ian about the difference between the non-american bodybuilders and their american counterparts. He said the one thing he could never understand about the american bodybuilders was their delusion that they had to eat chicken breasts and baked potatoes 24/7 365 days a year. Aside from making dieting even harder than it already is come contest time, it tends to keep the metabolism stuck in neutral. Shocking the system every now and again always keeps the metabolic rate high and in doing this allows more muscle mass to be built, which the last time I checked was the reason bodybuilding became a sport in the first place!
How many pro�??s started their careers eating chicken breasts broccoli and potatos, only to make zero progress until they started eating everything and anything in site! You don�??t pack on size eating like a gymnast.
I feel that the smart move to make for an off-season bodybuilder looking to acquire new size is to make sure they get in 450-500 grams of protein per day and then eat whatever the hell they want within reason. I�??m not suggesting a diet of twinkies and ice cream, but if you desire a little snack after you get in all your nutritional needs�?�go for it. If controlling fat is a concern, you can always cut back on the carbs.
Following this rule has resulted in more freaks than you can imagine. Why is it that someone like Lee Priest carries 20lbs more tissue than Shawn Ray and is a good 2 inches shorter? It�??s in the eating I guarantee it! Both use steroids, and in fact, Shawn has used them for a longer time period as he is both older and has been around longer.
For those who think that the difference lies in the amounts I say simply that you would be surprised how far some pro�??s get on training and eating like an animal. People like to chalk steroids and gear use up as the deciding factor on why they don�??t look like the Pro�??s when the reality of the situation is that there are multiple factors at play.
But it�??s always easier to point the finger and say “he�??s a total juice monster and uses a gram of test every day�?��?�that�??s why he�??s a pro and I�??m only 215lbs” “I�??m not willing to do that to my body!” Yet these same people take offense when they hear the whispers and assinine comments from the general public who think “I could look like that guy, all I have to do is gobble up lots of steroids everyday”.
In conclusion, I would suggest and offseason program that relies heavily on protein (450-500 grams a day) and then eat basic, high calorie foods. Things such as milk, whole eggs, steaks and pasta have resulted in more mass then broiled chicken and broccoli every have.
Remember, fat can always be stripped off, muscle is a little harder to put on. Pack on the muscle and let the fat come along for the ride�?��?�then give yourself time to tighten things up and burn off the fat. Concerning yourself with appearance all year long is a sure fire way to keep your physique from causing heads to turn. There is a time and a place for everything and as the Zen monks say “You cannot serve two masters at once.”
[/quote]
This is a diet I use, one that contains massive amounts of protein and a lot of calories. Whole milk, peanut butter sandwiches on whole wheat bread, yogurt, eggs, pizza, salads, fruits, and a hell lotta meat from chicken breasts to McDonald’s hamburgers are all you need to get huge in my opinion.
Has anyone actually looked at the nutritional content of McDonald’s hamburgers? It’s loaded with TONS of protein and calories which we, as bodybuilders, also need. It has served me well eating 2 - 2.5x BW in protein and I’d do it all over again.
Maybe with a few hundred less calories of carbs or maybe fat, but I do not believe that I could have packed on the mass I did eating like a panzie.
Since I’ve graduated from high school (graduated in 07’), I haven’t met one of those grads again and they didn’t mention my new size within 5 seconds of laying eyes on me.
I’m all up for dirtying up the diet a little bit, keeping protein intake 2x or more BW in grams, and more than 500 calories above maintenance.
What on earth is exhibit a?
EDIT: I re-read the thread. sorry.
[quote]Corkonian wrote:
Er when i started the gym i was overweight but my height/build kept me from looking to dire.
I never EVER heard of complexes/anything when i started just lifted LOTS of weights and fat fell off me from what i now know was muscle is the best fat burner ever ^^
So anyone cutting for 16 week like exhibit a needs a smack on the face and told to wake up building muscle is harder but it will burn fat for you !
Also i vote give Prof. X a chance to write for T-Nation i for 1 would read his articles.[/quote]
My only gripe about this whole thread are people advocating fast food. While I can understand consuming 4000 cals per day eating steak, chicken, pork, and fish, to achieve whatever goal, I see the idea of 4000 calories as just 4000 calories being ridiculous. Nobody should be advocating putting fast food into anybodies diet, ever.
???
Where on earth or how on earth did you get that out of this thread …
[quote]coloradosteve2 wrote:
My only gripe about this whole thread are people advocating fast food. While I can understand consuming 4000 cals per day eating steak, chicken, pork, and fish, to achieve whatever goal, I see the idea of 4000 calories as just 4000 calories being ridiculous. Nobody should be advocating putting fast food into anybodies diet, ever. [/quote]
You miss the point…the most important one being the pursuit of results and not simply following an agenda regardless of what the results are.
[quote]Corkonian wrote:
???
Where on earth or how on earth did you get that out of this thread …[/quote]
I really think some people eclipse their own progress by trying to find fault with basic tenants that have worked for decades.
[quote]coloradosteve2 wrote:
My only gripe about this whole thread are people advocating fast food. While I can understand consuming 4000 cals per day eating steak, chicken, pork, and fish, to achieve whatever goal, I see the idea of 4000 calories as just 4000 calories being ridiculous. Nobody should be advocating putting fast food into anybodies diet, ever. [/quote]
I don’t eat junk/fast food ever, but I am older than most of the people here and have specific reasons to avoid it not to mention the fact that I’m not afraid to eat enough to make progress.
There are people for whom the psychological benefit of eating a Big Mac and fries far outweigh any negative nutritional downside. When you understand the difference between that and “advocating putting fast food in your diet” your horizons will have been broadened for the better.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
There are people for whom the psychological benefit of eating a Big Mac and fries far outweigh any negative nutritional downside. When you understand the difference between that and “advocating putting fast food in your diet” your horizons will have been broadened for the better.[/quote]
Funny story … one Canadian winter olympic athlete (she medaled in 1992 I think) was a real health food freak … One of my friends was coaching her at the time and the day before her event at the Olympics he sees her eating a Big Mac… the last thing he would imagine this girl eating!
She told him that when she was young and was stressed out or sad, her father took her to McDonalds. And to this day, when she eats a Big Mac it took her stress away.