CT & Professor X's Discussion

Firebug9 · February 21, 2008, 3:51am

[quote]Professor X wrote:
firebug9 wrote:

Why is it more impressive for a fat 300lb man to lift twice his body weight and a guy that is lean and weighs 165 and lifts the same 600lbs? I don’t get that, I really just dont.

See, I didn’t say “the same 600lbs”. How many 165lbs guys are lifting 600lbs? A lot? 10? To answer you more directly, however, it is EASIER to lift 200-300lbs than it is to lift in excess of 500-600lbs. It takes less time and less overall size and leverage to reach a smaller weight regardless of what you weigh personally, so no, someone’s relative strength is not a major concern to me. I am impressed by big weights being lifted and could really care less how much the guy lifting it weighs.

So you are telling me that Jeff Lewis is more impressive with his rolls upon rolls than Wade Hooper is? I was scared to walk to close to Joe Lewis – the gravitational pull was strong and I did not want to be sucked into that.

You really find this more impressive:

I am not into powerlifting anymore. At one time, after seeing Anthony Clark lift at my gym, I was into it…but that turned more into bodybuilding. I don’t know who Jeff Lewis is and I would be lying if I wrote that I cared much. I RESPECT powerlifting but it isn’t my pursuit.[/quote]

And yes I understand it is not your pursuit - anymore than bodybuilding is mine. Diet is just to damn hard ;P, I like to eat, could be why I am in the 82kg class. And I do agree that it is easier to hit certain weights and that if you increase your weight the next bench mark so to speak then becomes easier – but is it because you weigh more, have more muscle or that the bar has less distance to travel in say the bench? Because it does not really hold true in the Deadlift.

Professor_X · February 21, 2008, 3:59am

[quote]firebug9 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
firebug9 wrote:

Why is it more impressive for a fat 300lb man to lift twice his body weight and a guy that is lean and weighs 165 and lifts the same 600lbs? I don’t get that, I really just dont.

See, I didn’t say “the same 600lbs”. How many 165lbs guys are lifting 600lbs? A lot? 10? To answer you more directly, however, it is EASIER to lift 200-300lbs than it is to lift in excess of 500-600lbs. It takes less time and less overall size and leverage to reach a smaller weight regardless of what you weigh personally, so no, someone’s relative strength is not a major concern to me. I am impressed by big weights being lifted and could really care less how much the guy lifting it weighs.

So you are telling me that Jeff Lewis is more impressive with his rolls upon rolls than Wade Hooper is? I was scared to walk to close to Joe Lewis – the gravitational pull was strong and I did not want to be sucked into that.

You really find this more impressive:

I am not into powerlifting anymore. At one time, after seeing Anthony Clark lift at my gym, I was into it…but that turned more into bodybuilding. I don’t know who Jeff Lewis is and I would be lying if I wrote that I cared much. I RESPECT powerlifting but it isn’t my pursuit.

And yes I understand it is not your pursuit - anymore than bodybuilding is mine. Diet is just to damn hard ;P, I like to eat, could be why I am in the 82kg class. And I do agree that it is easier to hit certain weights and that if you increase your weight the next bench mark so to speak then becomes easier – but is it because you weigh more, have more muscle or that the bar has less distance to travel in say the bench? Because it does not really hold true in the Deadlift.
[/quote]

Either way, it comes down to this; I would not take advice or even listen to some guy who doesn’t look like he works out. I would not listen to what some guy with 14" arms had to say about biceps training. I would not listen to what some guy who weighed 300lbs of obesity had to say about dieting. I would not listen to what some guy who could only bench press the bar had to say about building a big chest or handling a lot of weight in that exercise.

Sure, you could argue that somewhere there may be some guy who exists who doesn’t look the part but happens to be Hercules, but let’s not pretend like it is such a frequent occurrence that I need to be on the look out for tiny little super-experienced Smurfs.

will_to_power · February 21, 2008, 4:03am

[quote]firebug9 wrote:
I have no reason not to believe you. But I also believe that society as a whole would not listen to him. I also believe that in general alot of people – even on this board would not listen to a female on the same subject. If she was Hott they would give her the time of day but the information would go in one ear and out the other. Just my opinion.

I live with this daily at work. The guys I work with don’t listen to how a squat should be done. Hell one guy was deadlifting at work ON THE SMITH machine blew three discs and had to have back surgery before he listened to me. By the way he was lifting my second warm up and out weighs me by 65 lbs…and was an athlete in high school and college. Go figure.

And yes I do understand the point that is trying to be made. I also think that we are all of the same belief. I find the conversation interesting and would love to investigate every angle ;P.
[/quote]

I totally agree most people wouldn’t listen to the old guy who they didn’t know use to be a top bodybuilder. A good example is Frank Zane, who did a training shoot with Lee Priest and Shawn Ray a few years ago. It’s on youtube and if you see some of the disrespectful comments about Zane there…

As for girls, it’s funny how the same guys who tend have these huge egos about taking advice from girls will completely embarrass themselves in the way they act around a hot girl.

heavythrower · February 21, 2008, 4:09am

[quote]Professor X wrote:
heavythrower wrote:

i almost never train my arms, but then again, my arms are pathetic, so maybe i am not the best example.

The difference is, anyone with eyes can tell you lift weights. I am willing to bet the same can’t be said for most of the people on the forum. That hasn’t stopped newbies from giving other newbies retarded advice.

I am willing to bet more than a few people could learn something from you.[/quote]

well, most of my muscle is on my back, and i work my back 2-4 times a week. so logic dictates that if you want bigger arms, you need to train them. as a thrower olympic lifter and pl, i never saw the need to do a lot of arm training, now that i do nothing(competitively at least), i probably should do more arm work, but old habits die hard.

i tell myself that i have to squat/pull/clean/press heavy in just about every workout, after i do that, i usually have little energy for arm stuff.

Firebug9 · February 21, 2008, 4:09am

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Either way, it comes down to this; I would not take advice or even listen to some guy who doesn’t look like he works out. I would not listen to what some guy with 14" arms had to say about biceps training. I would not listen to what some guy who weighed 300lbs of obesity had to say about dieting. I would not listen to what some guy who could only bench press the bar had to say about building a big chest or handling a lot of weight in that exercise.

Sure, you could argue that somewhere there may be some guy who exists who doesn’t look the part but happens to be Hercules, but let’s not pretend like it is such a frequent occurrence that I need to be on the look out for tiny little super-experienced Smurfs.
[/quote]

Nor would most people. But given that the way we comunicate here is only with typed words, then you have to “listen” to figure out if they know anything – because pictures on the internet can lie…pga was great with this.

And yes it can be argued that there are people that exist who do not look the part of a lifter, this is true with any profession. Face it you dont look like a DR. And I am sure you face problems with that in your practice, don’t you? Because DR’s are thin nerd looking dudes with glasses and graying hair. But do you have any less to offer in the medical field? Nope, probably more if they would just listen long enough to find out.

I agree that in some fields it is more important to look the part – I just wish that we were not always so quick to jump ship just because of the way someone looks.

Firebug9 · February 21, 2008, 4:12am

[quote]will to power wrote:

I totally agree most people wouldn’t listen to the old guy who they didn’t know use to be a top bodybuilder. A good example is Frank Zane, who did a training shoot with Lee Priest and Shawn Ray a few years ago. It’s on youtube and if you see some of the disrespectful comments about Zane there…

As for girls, it’s funny how the same guys who tend have these huge egos about taking advice from girls will completely embarrass themselves in the way they act around a hot girl.[/quote]

Yes they do – never around me, but Yes they do!!

Professor_X · February 21, 2008, 4:13am

[quote]firebug9 wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Either way, it comes down to this; I would not take advice or even listen to some guy who doesn’t look like he works out. I would not listen to what some guy with 14" arms had to say about biceps training. I would not listen to what some guy who weighed 300lbs of obesity had to say about dieting. I would not listen to what some guy who could only bench press the bar had to say about building a big chest or handling a lot of weight in that exercise.

Sure, you could argue that somewhere there may be some guy who exists who doesn’t look the part but happens to be Hercules, but let’s not pretend like it is such a frequent occurrence that I need to be on the look out for tiny little super-experienced Smurfs.

Nor would most people. But given that the way we comunicate here is only with typed words, then you have to “listen” to figure out if they know anything – because pictures on the internet can lie…pga was great with this.

And yes it can be argued that there are people that exist who do not look the part of a lifter, this is true with any profession. Face it you dont look like a DR. And I am sure you face problems with that in your practice, don’t you? Because DR’s are thin nerd looking dudes with glasses and graying hair. But do you have any less to offer in the medical field? Nope, probably more if they would just listen long enough to find out.

I agree that in some fields it is more important to look the part – I just wish that we were not always so quick to jump ship just because of the way someone looks.[/quote]

No argument.

LankyMofo · February 21, 2008, 2:07pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Experience gets treated like it isn’t important around here.[/quote]

I just wanted to toss this out there: The people spewing information that they read HAS COME FROM EXPERIENCE. Even though all they did was read it and yeah, they may look like a pole, the writers have that experience. The advice they give is the same whether it comes from a Chad Waterbury or some skinny kid, the words and the advice is still the same. The skinnies regurgitating it probably haven’t put it to good use.

I’m not totally discounting experience, I personally prefer bigger guys like X offering advice because they have nothing to sell. When it comes down to it, the writers have to sell themselves to make money. Some of the bigger guys don’t benefit at all from offering advice so I do appreciate it.

I think this post went in two different directions, but I just wanted to throw this out there, for what it’s worth…

Professor_X · February 21, 2008, 5:21pm

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Experience gets treated like it isn’t important around here.

I just wanted to toss this out there: The people spewing information that they read HAS COME FROM EXPERIENCE. Even though all they did was read it and yeah, they may look like a pole, the writers have that experience. The advice they give is the same whether it comes from a Chad Waterbury or some skinny kid, the words and the advice is still the same. The skinnies regurgitating it probably haven’t put it to good use.

I’m not totally discounting experience, I personally prefer bigger guys like X offering advice because they have nothing to sell. When it comes down to it, the writers have to sell themselves to make money. Some of the bigger guys don’t benefit at all from offering advice so I do appreciate it.

I think this post went in two different directions, but I just wanted to throw this out there, for what it’s worth…[/quote]

What makes you think Chad Waterbury (or any other author) is right about everything he writes about? What makes you think it will work for those tossing the info with no personal experience?

You are right, they do need to sell a product because that is how they make their living. Their opinion is also biased based on their own personal character…which is why you get statements like, “bodybuilders can’t walk up stairs” as if they are so out of shape.

I can climb and run up stairs just fine.

It looks like Waterbury was wrong about something.

The difference is, those without a product to sell don’t have a few hundred newbies using their every statement as if it were written in The Holy Bible or The Constitution.

Tiribulus · February 21, 2008, 5:23pm

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Experience gets treated like it isn’t important around here.

I just wanted to toss this out there: The people spewing information that they read HAS COME FROM EXPERIENCE. Even though all they did was read it and yeah, they may look like a pole, the writers have that experience. The advice they give is the same whether it comes from a Chad Waterbury or some skinny kid, the words and the advice is still the same. The skinnies regurgitating it probably haven’t put it to good use. >>>[/quote]

Some of this has to do with how things are stated. There’s a difference between a guy really just trying to be helpful and some of these jackasses who speak as if their word is unassailable because they read a lot.

Also who you are talking to matters as well. You’ll never find me telling somebody who obviously knows what they’re doing that they don’t because I think I read somewhere that so n so disagrees. Even if my experience doesn’t seem to support theirs, mine is mine and theirs is theirs and mine may not equally apply to them

If someone is happy with how things are going there’s no point in trying to talk them out of it. It’s the guys who are hung up right at the fundamentals who do not need anything more than the fundementals which they rarely get because they’re jumped by folks assaulting them with often misinterpreted and misapplied book larnin.

GetSwole · February 21, 2008, 6:17pm

Alert: Will now beat dead horse.

I have to agree with the Prof, that too many guys with nothing to show are quick to spout off advice based on what they read.

Now yes there are some universal truths whether you’ve applied them or not…such as…compound lifts will make a person stronger and bigger to some degree, lowering your carbohydrate is an effective way to lose weight for the general population…etc…

But people giving advice as if its set in stone with no experience to back it up is basically useless. People should read, and take it in, sure…but they shouldn’t spout it back out and just assume it works for everyone because an author said so.

If people are going to give advice they should have some experience.

I.E…You’ll never see me telling people how to “bulk” properly…why? Cuz I’ve never “bulked”.

I do give people advice on weight loss frequently however, why? Because I’ve lost a shitton of weight, and I can only offer my experience. I don’t just regurgitate what certain articles said about “cutting” or losing weight…I just share what worked for me and how I went about it. I lost alot of weight before I joined this site…

Point is, I have experience there…so I share my experience.

I don’t have experience in “putting on muscle as fast as humanly possible”…my muscle is shearly a consiquence of getting in the gym when I was 13 and consistently working out since then…so I don’t tell people the best way to bulk or “get big”…cuz I haven’t been there.

I think people should really only share their personal experiences if their gonna give useful advice. If your just gonna spout off a line from a Berardi article…tell the person to go read the article…don’t act like just because you read it that its a universal truth set in stone.

thomas_galvin · February 21, 2008, 7:27pm

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I just wanted to toss this out there: The people spewing information that they read HAS COME FROM EXPERIENCE. Even though all they did was read it and yeah, they may look like a pole, the writers have that experience. The advice they give is the same whether it comes from a Chad Waterbury or some skinny kid, the words and the advice is still the same. The skinnies regurgitating it probably haven’t put it to good use.[/quote]

The problem is, the skinny kid doesn’t know when to put it to use. For example, Shugart’s V-Diet is a great way to drop a keg of weight real fast. But how many times have we seen some 125 pound wonder tell some other 125 pound wonder that he needs to do the V-Diet so he can see his abs? Someone with personal experience wouldn’t make this mistake, but the internet experts make it all the time.

GetSwole · February 21, 2008, 7:43pm

Internet experts are always giving advice based on theoretics that come from articles/reading…etc

However, if you’ve had enough ups in downs in building your own physique you’ll know that theoretics don’t necessarily work in this game. Not everything in every articles works for every body. Too many guys give advice, based on what they read, that assumes everything works equally for everybody. It’s just simply not the case, which is why I’d rather somebody with personal experience give me their personal experience than someone who is a walking library give me a quote from their most recent read.

big_balls · February 21, 2008, 8:56pm

By Trevor Smith

Pizza, chocolate, cheeseburgers, french-fries, kentucky fried chicken, chinese food, ice-cream and soda. No, no, this is not the food list for my next holiday party. This is, in fact, what I have come to learn is the mainstay of most succesful and huge proï¿½??s diets in the off-season.

I apologize if I shattered anyoneï¿½??s misconception about what the Proï¿½??s eat. The fact is, the metabolism of the average high level amateur or pro is kicking at a higher level than your average Ed. Because of this, they can get away with eating whatever they want pretty much all year longï¿½??with the exception being contest prep time.

Personally I feel that, unless you are holding quite a bit of bodyfat, it is fool hardy to eat clean all the time. You need look no further than all the big-boys in the sport to find out if this theory holds any water (and fat too!)

You look at someone like Shawn Ray. Great bodybuilder no doubt, but great for circa 1987 where his physique seems to have been stuck in the past 12 years. “Eating Clean” has resulted in a number of proï¿½??s whoï¿½??s physiques have remained stagnent and unchanged.

I remember a conversation I had with Ian about the difference between the non-american bodybuilders and their american counterparts. He said the one thing he could never understand about the american bodybuilders was their delusion that they had to eat chicken breasts and baked potatoes 24/7 365 days a year. Aside from making dieting even harder than it already is come contest time, it tends to keep the metabolism stuck in neutral. Shocking the system every now and again always keeps the metabolic rate high and in doing this allows more muscle mass to be built, which the last time I checked was the reason bodybuilding became a sport in the first place!

How many proï¿½??s started their careers eating chicken breasts broccoli and potatos, only to make zero progress until they started eating everything and anything in site! You donï¿½??t pack on size eating like a gymnast.

I feel that the smart move to make for an off-season bodybuilder looking to acquire new size is to make sure they get in 450-500 grams of protein per day and then eat whatever the hell they want within reason. Iï¿½??m not suggesting a diet of twinkies and ice cream, but if you desire a little snack after you get in all your nutritional needsï¿½?ï¿½go for it. If controlling fat is a concern, you can always cut back on the carbs.

Following this rule has resulted in more freaks than you can imagine. Why is it that someone like Lee Priest carries 20lbs more tissue than Shawn Ray and is a good 2 inches shorter? Itï¿½??s in the eating I guarantee it! Both use steroids, and in fact, Shawn has used them for a longer time period as he is both older and has been around longer.

For those who think that the difference lies in the amounts I say simply that you would be surprised how far some proï¿½??s get on training and eating like an animal. People like to chalk steroids and gear use up as the deciding factor on why they donï¿½??t look like the Proï¿½??s when the reality of the situation is that there are multiple factors at play.

But itï¿½??s always easier to point the finger and say “heï¿½??s a total juice monster and uses a gram of test every dayï¿½?ï¿½ï¿½?ï¿½thatï¿½??s why heï¿½??s a pro and Iï¿½??m only 215lbs” “Iï¿½??m not willing to do that to my body!” Yet these same people take offense when they hear the whispers and assinine comments from the general public who think “I could look like that guy, all I have to do is gobble up lots of steroids everyday”.

In conclusion, I would suggest and offseason program that relies heavily on protein (450-500 grams a day) and then eat basic, high calorie foods. Things such as milk, whole eggs, steaks and pasta have resulted in more mass then broiled chicken and broccoli every have.

Remember, fat can always be stripped off, muscle is a little harder to put on. Pack on the muscle and let the fat come along for the rideï¿½?ï¿½ï¿½?ï¿½then give yourself time to tighten things up and burn off the fat. Concerning yourself with appearance all year long is a sure fire way to keep your physique from causing heads to turn. There is a time and a place for everything and as the Zen monks say “You cannot serve two masters at once.”

GetSwole · February 21, 2008, 9:37pm

“Chase two rabbits and you will lose both”

Joe_D · February 21, 2008, 11:18pm

I wonder how many people read that article and just saw the bits about pizza and kfc?

I read that a few months ago, and the most important bit I saw was this:

[quote]
“I’m not suggesting a diet of twinkies and ice cream, but if you desire a little snack after you get in all your nutritional needs go for it. If controlling fat is a concern, you can always cut back on the carbs.”[/quote]

LankyMofo · February 21, 2008, 11:50pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Experience gets treated like it isn’t important around here.

I just wanted to toss this out there: The people spewing information that they read HAS COME FROM EXPERIENCE. Even though all they did was read it and yeah, they may look like a pole, the writers have that experience. The advice they give is the same whether it comes from a Chad Waterbury or some skinny kid, the words and the advice is still the same. The skinnies regurgitating it probably haven’t put it to good use.

I’m not totally discounting experience, I personally prefer bigger guys like X offering advice because they have nothing to sell. When it comes down to it, the writers have to sell themselves to make money. Some of the bigger guys don’t benefit at all from offering advice so I do appreciate it.

I think this post went in two different directions, but I just wanted to throw this out there, for what it’s worth…

What makes you think Chad Waterbury (or any other author) is right about everything he writes about? What makes you think it will work for those tossing the info with no personal experience?

You are right, they do need to sell a product because that is how they make their living. Their opinion is also biased based on their own personal character…which is why you get statements like, “bodybuilders can’t walk up stairs” as if they are so out of shape.

I can climb and run up stairs just fine.

It looks like Waterbury was wrong about something.

The difference is, those without a product to sell don’t have a few hundred newbies using their every statement as if it were written in The Holy Bible or The Constitution.[/quote]

You’re right, I don’t always agree with the writers. I also don’t always agree with you. The main problems newbs have is sorting through the wealth of information and deciding what’s logical. There is so much crap to read through, I think at least 75% of it is total garbage.

Newbs (like myself, as I’ve only been training for a little over a year) tend to get mixed up in too many fine details. Luckily for myself I decided to eat big, train with bill starr’s 5x5 and am seeing results so I’m not worrying about any details right now.

Beings the only advice I’ve ever seen you give is to eat more, I think I have actually always agreed with you…

I don’t know where I’m even going with these posts, as I really don’t even see myself disagreeing. I’m probably just all hot and bothered because I’m one of those new people everyone is writing off, lol.

Tiribulus · February 22, 2008, 1:20am

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
<<< Beings the only advice I’ve ever seen you give is to eat more, I think I have actually always agreed with you…

I don’t know where I’m even going with these posts, as I really don’t even see myself disagreeing. I’m probably just all hot and bothered because I’m one of those new people everyone is writing off, lol.
[/quote]

I promise you he has proffered advice far beyond that on many occasions, but given the fact that no other advice matters if people refuse to eat it is true that that has been said many many times.

Also. Attitude has as much to do with being “written off” as how much experience you have. I haven’t found you to have an arrogant know it all attitude around here and have not written you off for instance. That doesn’t mean you haven’t said a few boneheaded things here and there, but people are all human man.

Even really young guys can redeem themselves as well.

This Triple10sets guy for instance or whatever he calls himself showed up here with an attitude you could cut with a knife, but is learning that he will not be taken seriously talking like a punk to everybody. Hence I’ve revised my opinion of him.

All anybody is saying is if you need help your highest likelihood of finding it is with somebody who’s closer to where you want to get than you are. If they’re worth listening to they 're going to help you think yourself as well. Nobody means every single syllable they utter is for you either.

Professor_X · February 22, 2008, 2:07am

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

Beings the only advice I’ve ever seen you give is to eat more, I think I have actually always agreed with you…

[/quote]

Dude, I want you to go find the last post of mine where the response was “eat more”. If that is all you hear, that means there is something wrong with your perception.

Sentoguy · February 22, 2008, 2:45am

[quote]big balls wrote:
By Trevor Smith