Cro Cop Sux

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
almostabb wrote:
I don’t think K-1 guys could mop the floor with ufc guys at all. However, Pride is a different story, they got the best fighters in the world.

You should probably pull your head out of pride’s ass and breathe. Heath Herring, Werdum, and CC have went a stunning combined 2-3 in their first UFC fights.

Yup. Donut, you are one of a small handful of guys here that seem to know what the hell you are talking about.

excluding yourself…

No shit. You seem to know much less than me. The only difference is you are not aware of your ignorance of the subject.

hmm…if you ever decide to actually take up MMA…stop by Full Circle MMA…Killeen,TX…maybe we could just “share our knowledge” and become best of buds.[/quote]

Whatever dude. Nothing like an internet challenge.

[Big_Boss]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
almostabb wrote:
I don’t think K-1 guys could mop the floor with ufc guys at all. However, Pride is a different story, they got the best fighters in the world.

You should probably pull your head out of pride’s ass and breathe. Heath Herring, Werdum, and CC have went a stunning combined 2-3 in their first UFC fights.

Yup. Donut, you are one of a small handful of guys here that seem to know what the hell you are talking about.

excluding yourself…

No shit. You seem to know much less than me. The only difference is you are not aware of your ignorance of the subject.

hmm…if you ever decide to actually take up MMA…stop by Full Circle MMA…Killeen,TX…maybe we could just “share our knowledge” and become best of buds.

Whatever dude. Nothing like an internet challenge.[/quote]

Yeah,I know…you’re the bigger man…this feud is squashed.Holla!

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
almostabb wrote:
I don’t think K-1 guys could mop the floor with ufc guys at all. However, Pride is a different story, they got the best fighters in the world.

You should probably pull your head out of pride’s ass and breathe. Heath Herring, Werdum, and CC have went a stunning combined 2-3 in their first UFC fights.

Yup. Donut, you are one of a small handful of guys here that seem to know what the hell you are talking about.

excluding yourself…

No shit. You seem to know much less than me. The only difference is you are not aware of your ignorance of the subject.

hmm…if you ever decide to actually take up MMA…stop by Full Circle MMA…Killeen,TX…maybe we could just “share our knowledge” and become best of buds.

Whatever dude. Nothing like an internet challenge.

Yeah,I know…you’re the bigger man…this feud is squashed.Holla![/quote]

Have a good night and good luck coming back from the car crash . Keep training.

[Man_O_War]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Cro Cop Sux
[/quote]

There’s a long list of banged up people that would strongly disagree with you there Zapper.

[Big_Boss]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
almostabb wrote:
I don’t think K-1 guys could mop the floor with ufc guys at all. However, Pride is a different story, they got the best fighters in the world.

You should probably pull your head out of pride’s ass and breathe. Heath Herring, Werdum, and CC have went a stunning combined 2-3 in their first UFC fights.

Yup. Donut, you are one of a small handful of guys here that seem to know what the hell you are talking about.

excluding yourself…

No shit. You seem to know much less than me. The only difference is you are not aware of your ignorance of the subject.

hmm…if you ever decide to actually take up MMA…stop by Full Circle MMA…Killeen,TX…maybe we could just “share our knowledge” and become best of buds.

Whatever dude. Nothing like an internet challenge.

Yeah,I know…you’re the bigger man…this feud is squashed.Holla!

Have a good night and good luck coming back from the car crash . Keep training.[/quote]

Been there…done that!

[Big_Boss]

Ok…maybe I was a little harsh(or too many HOT-ROX Extremes)…but I just have the utmost respect for any fighter because of the sacrifices they make and the passion they have for the sport and to have someone who is “new to the MMA thing” downplay what a great fighter like CroCop has accomplished because of one loss is disrespectful in my eyes…but its just that.

If you are truly interested in MMA,do your research and keep an open mind.Holla

[Marshallman]

As someone who’s only watched UFC, I’d like to ask the more well-rounded MMA fans a question: are there any other major differences between Pride and UFC other than the cage vs. ring?

I’m not trying to make excuses for Cro Cop losing, I’m just wondering if there’s other elements he needs to get used to and whether or not it would impact his fighting style.

[Big_Boss]

[quote]Marshallman wrote:
As someone who’s only watched UFC, I’d like to ask the more well-rounded MMA fans a question: are there any other major differences between Pride and UFC other than the cage vs. ring?

I’m not trying to make excuses for Cro Cop losing, I’m just wondering if there’s other elements he needs to get used to and whether or not it would impact his fighting style.[/quote]

the Octagon greatly affects the fighting style of someone such as CroCop…movement in the ring sets up his kicks…also just training in the Octagon(which CroCop doesn’t)helps more than people think.

[Donut62]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Ok…maybe I was a little harsh(or too many HOT-ROX Extremes)…but I just have the utmost respect for any fighter because of the sacrifices they make and the passion they have for the sport and to have someone who is “new to the MMA thing” downplay what a great fighter like CroCop has accomplished because of one loss is disrespectful in my eyes…but its just that.

If you are truly interested in MMA,do your research and keep an open mind.Holla[/quote]

Zap wasn’t disrespecting Mirko, he was using some sarcasm to poke fun at everyone who exalted the “everyone in Pride is unbeatable in the UFC” mentality that seemed to pop up on the internet. God knows I’ve had to eat some crow, but the fact is that MMA is such a complex game in it’s infancy as a professional sport that no one is unbeatable.

It has nothing to do with Mirko himself, he’s just doing his job and had a bad night. It’s the fan boy flocks that get old.

[Donut62]

[quote]Marshallman wrote:
As someone who’s only watched UFC, I’d like to ask the more well-rounded MMA fans a question: are there any other major differences between Pride and UFC other than the cage vs. ring?
[/quote]

Elbows, elbows, elbows. In Pride simply tying up someone’s hands is all you need to stop the ground and pound. With elbows in play, it makes things much harder on the bottom and proper positioning becomes incredibly important.

I think Mirko lost as soon as he got hit with a few of those elbows and was cut. It put him into panic mode because he was hit with something he had never seen before and seemed to have no answer for it. For someone set in their ways with a long career that has to be a horrible helpless feeling.

If it wasn’t for that horrendous stand up (ironically it ended the fight quicker though) Mirko would have went to his corner with a messy face or could have been TKO’ed.

Another thing, also affecting the man on his back, is the lack of yellow cards and fast stand ups. This was particularly apparent in Herring’s fight with JOB. No elbows and fast stand ups meant that a tight guard and tying up the hands was usually enough to get the fight back on the feet in Pride. Now, not so much.

[loppar]

I believe Mirko was seriously underestimating the UFC as an organization.

He spent all of his fighting career in Japan, where combat sports have a special place in the general culture.

After his transfer to the UFC, he expressed on several occasions how he doesn’t like the “circus” associated with UFC. That was plainly visible before and after his first match vs. Sanchez.

From what I’ve heard, his view on the whole UFC contract could have been summed up as “I’ll beat up some cans, pick up my paycheck and get another belt for the mantelpiece”

He treated Gonzaga like Sanchez, and got what he deserved. I hope he’ll start training seriously for his next match, and return in his OWGP form.

[Big_Boss]

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Ok…maybe I was a little harsh(or too many HOT-ROX Extremes)…but I just have the utmost respect for any fighter because of the sacrifices they make and the passion they have for the sport and to have someone who is “new to the MMA thing” downplay what a great fighter like CroCop has accomplished because of one loss is disrespectful in my eyes…but its just that.

If you are truly interested in MMA,do your research and keep an open mind.Holla

Zap wasn’t disrespecting Mirko, he was using some sarcasm to poke fun at everyone who exalted the “everyone in Pride is unbeatable in the UFC” mentality that seemed to pop up on the internet. God knows I’ve had to eat some crow, but the fact is that MMA is such a complex game in it’s infancy as a professional sport that no one is unbeatable.

It has nothing to do with Mirko himself, he’s just doing his job and had a bad night. It’s the fan boy flocks that get old.
[/quote]

I can deal with that…wish I could of got in on those that thought PRIDE fighters were superior to UFC fighters…the few differences between the two definitely weigh heavy.

[Big_Boss]

well…UFC 70 is behind us now…so now we can put this energy into Liddel vs. Jackson…I think Jackson’s style of fighting is perfect for the Octagon…but thats another subject.

[nikolo]

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Marshallman wrote:
As someone who’s only watched UFC, I’d like to ask the more well-rounded MMA fans a question: are there any other major differences between Pride and UFC other than the cage vs. ring?

Elbows, elbows, elbows. In Pride simply tying up someone’s hands is all you need to stop the ground and pound. With elbows in play, it makes things much harder on the bottom and proper positioning becomes incredibly important.

I think Mirko lost as soon as he got hit with a few of those elbows and was cut. It put him into panic mode because he was hit with something he had never seen before and seemed to have no answer for it. For someone set in their ways with a long career that has to be a horrible helpless feeling.

If it wasn’t for that horrendous stand up (ironically it ended the fight quicker though) Mirko would have went to his corner with a messy face or could have been TKO’ed.

Another thing, also affecting the man on his back, is the lack of yellow cards and fast stand ups. This was particularly apparent in Herring’s fight with JOB. No elbows and fast stand ups meant that a tight guard and tying up the hands was usually enough to get the fight back on the feet in Pride. Now, not so much.[/quote]

Excellent post.

[John_S1]

[quote]bigblue244 wrote:
John S. wrote:
If im not mistaken doesn’t ufc own pride now? So do you think they will bring fedor over and try to create what they where hoping Crocop would do?

Fedor is currently under contract with Bodog and not Pride. Hopefully this will change soon, especially with the growing amount of competition and talent in the UFC and the fact that Bodog will not be able to keep up with this or offer Fedor any top notch competition (see his last fight with Matt Lindland).[/quote]

I just watched that fight, They better bring fedor over if thats the best they have UFC would be much better for him.

[lucasa]

[quote]Donut62 wrote:

Brutal, brutal, brrrrutal KO.
[/quote]

Until I saw him sitting up, there was a little part of me that thought he might be dead.

[otoko]

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Marshallman wrote:
As someone who’s only watched UFC, I’d like to ask the more well-rounded MMA fans a question: are there any other major differences between Pride and UFC other than the cage vs. ring?

Elbows, elbows, elbows. In Pride simply tying up someone’s hands is all you need to stop the ground and pound. With elbows in play, it makes things much harder on the bottom and proper positioning becomes incredibly important.

I think Mirko lost as soon as he got hit with a few of those elbows and was cut. It put him into panic mode because he was hit with something he had never seen before and seemed to have no answer for it. For someone set in their ways with a long career that has to be a horrible helpless feeling.

If it wasn’t for that horrendous stand up (ironically it ended the fight quicker though) Mirko would have went to his corner with a messy face or could have been TKO’ed.

Another thing, also affecting the man on his back, is the lack of yellow cards and fast stand ups. This was particularly apparent in Herring’s fight with JOB. No elbows and fast stand ups meant that a tight guard and tying up the hands was usually enough to get the fight back on the feet in Pride. Now, not so much.[/quote]

Mirko loses when everybody absolutely believes he will win. The main thing that I immediatley realized in Mirko’s fight with Gonzaga was Mirko kept circling to his left which is all wrong when you are a southpaw. Guys will say Gonzaga was trying to stay to his left but Mirko was very actively going to his left.

A southpw going to his left puts himself into his opponent’s power and in perfect position for right kicks from his opponent. I don’t know why Mirko would go to his left. I can’t see any reason for it from a striking perspective unless he didn’t believe Gonzaga could kick or he felt going to his left put him a good position to negate a td from Gonzaga. Mirko lost to Mcdonald(in K-1) when everybody thought he would win. Randleman.

He lost his ight with Nog after dominating the first ten minutes. Hunt beat him up. Contrast his Gonzaga fight to when Mirko fought Hunt in K-1 and kept stepping off to his right, right and right again. Such a basic thing.
What is disapointing is guys just ripping into Mirko and other guys who lose a fight.

Mirko isn’t retiring. His career isn’t one fight. He is 22-5. Liddell is 20-3 etc. Everybody loses or that day will come. As for K-1 and Pride. Pride has world-class fighters. K-1 dishes out world-class strikers. Mirko has brilliant technical striking and all around skills regardless of where he fights.

[Grimnuruk]

[quote]booger wrote:

Looks like a quantum leap in the MMA game is brewing. People used to argue mostly about who is more skilled or talented than who at what, with Fedor and Couture being the only guys notable for consistently outstanding game plans.

These recent upsets, I think, showed as clearly as it can get that excellent, tailored game plans and training can trump talent, physical advantages and skill. Frankly, it’s exciting as hell.

Maybe next we’ll see counter- and counter-counter-game plans, and the ability to implement contingencies, think and adapt on the fly will become the next big advance.[/quote]

It’s an exciting time. Remember when this all “started” with the Gracie Challenge and the original UFC? It was all about style, with the Gracies taking home bank with BJJ because nobody had a good answer to it. Then the first “proto” rounded guys who could maybe box and wrestle and kick a little.

Now, almost twenty years later, everyone is rounded, though still having their strengths and weaknesses, both individual and style based. These kids that are coming up can’t even imagine just blindly training one style.

Crocop and Gozanga (and Couture and Fedor) are great examples of the state of the art fighter. Think about transporting any of these guys back to the first half dozen UFCs, they’d wipe the mat (in general) with those guys. The sport is constantly evolving.

[andymkb]

[quote]otoko wrote:
Mirko isn’t retiring. His career isn’t one fight. He is 22-5. Liddell is 20-3 etc. Everybody loses or that day will come. As for K-1 and Pride. Pride has world-class fighters. K-1 dishes out world-class strikers. Mirko has brilliant technical striking and all around skills regardless of where he fights. [/quote]

I assumed the retirement talk is down to how his leg looked twisting under him as he went down. I haven’t seen anything more on how bad it is yet, but if it’s as bad as it looked like it could be (and I hope it’s not) and needs surgery it could be quite a while before he’s ready to fight again.

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Ok…maybe I was a little harsh(or too many HOT-ROX Extremes)…but I just have the utmost respect for any fighter because of the sacrifices they make and the passion they have for the sport and to have someone who is “new to the MMA thing” downplay what a great fighter like CroCop has accomplished because of one loss is disrespectful in my eyes…but its just that.

If you are truly interested in MMA,do your research and keep an open mind.Holla

Zap wasn’t disrespecting Mirko, he was using some sarcasm to poke fun at everyone who exalted the “everyone in Pride is unbeatable in the UFC” mentality that seemed to pop up on the internet.

God knows I’ve had to eat some crow, but the fact is that MMA is such a complex game in it’s infancy as a professional sport that no one is unbeatable.

It has nothing to do with Mirko himself, he’s just doing his job and had a bad night. It’s the fan boy flocks that get old.
[/quote]

Exactly!!!

I like Cro Cop. He can be devastating. I have never seen any kick as hard as he does. He had a horrible night and got beat by a relative unknown. I think if he is going to stick around the UFC for more than a few fights he better expand his game. The UFC is far more ground oriented than he is used to.

I have respect for the longtime fans of MMA that have helped bring this cool sport along.

I just get tired of hearing the same old bullshit from some of them. Just because the only PRIDE fights I have seen are on Youtube or old stuff on FoxSports does not mean I am completely ignorant as to what is happening.