Critique My *NEW REVISED* Full Body Workout

I am looking to put on some lean mass and be cardio fit also. I love cardio; swimming, elliptical, running. I also want to add some lean mass from weights but only want to train twice a week BUT HARD and SMART - out of there by 45 mins or less. Am an ectomorph so weights twice a week is fine, anything more too taxing on my recovery.

Workout A. BACK. Pull ups 5 sets of how many I can do (usually 3,2,2,2,1) and then 2 sets lat pull down wide grip pronated and two sets medium grip palms facing. 8 reps for those.

CHEST - Flat barbell bench press. 3 x 10

SHOULDERS - Arnold presses. 3 x 10

LEGS - Seated Leg press. Seated Calf press. 3 x 10 both.

Mostly 3 x 10 (though somemight say 3 x 8 is better.)

Workout B.

BACK. Bent over barbell rows. 3 x 10

CHEST. Incline dumbell press. 3 x 10

SHOULDERS. Millitary barbell press. 3 x 10.
Lateral raises with light d’bell eg - 4 / 6 kg 21 reps (I train shoulders harder as lateral delts are my biggest weak area and I find adding these has helped a lot.)

LEGS. Leg extension, Hamstring curls, Calf press. 3 x 10.

No squat rack at my gym so will not be doing squats and no spotter so no way doing dumbell squats. I know how good thet are and I love em, but right now I am liking the leg workouts I’m doing just fine.

All above unless stipulated otherwise will be done 3 sets of ten reps.

I have worked out before on and off between 17 - now 36 yrs old. Haven’t worked out in past 2 years so starting as a beginner, using KISS (Keep it simple stupid) doing big compounds when I can and for the legs, well they are prob my best part so I’m fine with doing the leg press / calf press W.O A and ham curls, leg ext and calf press W.O B. Also squats give me a ‘black man’s butt’ and deads, a thick lower back and for an ectomorph this makes it hard to get the old v-shape. So shoulder width and waist reduction are paramount.

A typical week so far goes like this.

Monday. Workout A.

Tuesday. 45 mins steady state cardio early morn before breakfast. 3 sets of declined crossover sit ups / crunches till failiure.

Wednesday. 30 mins HIIT cardio in morn before breakfast. (Includes 5 mins warm up and wind down in the 30 mins.)

Thursday. Workout B.

Friday. Steady state cardio or HIIT on the elliptical if feel up to it.

Sat. REST DAY.

Sunday. Swim or rest day depending on how I feel.

REPEAT.

Will aim to do it for at least 6 MONTHS AND THEN MAYBE LOOK AT A NEW PROGRAMME. BUT I LOVE MY FULL BODY W/OUTS and I love my cardio.

Cardio days I workout before breakfast but eat well after, good mix of protien and carbs, 3 meals with a litre of 90% MILK drank throught the day.

Weights days I have a half litre of 90% milk pre workout and some carbs, usually toast an hour before and another half litre immediately before hitting the shower. Also on weights days I eat 3 maeals with good carbs, veg and around 30 g protien each meal and I drink another litre of 90% milk during the day.

I will not buy any shakes or pills etc other than the skimmed milk and centrum a - z. I will not get over fixated on my diet, it will remain mostly as stated above, but perhaps an extra ltr of 90% fat free milk on weights days.

I mostly need to lose some gut and get evrything else sculpted. Shape to me is more important than size I AM NOT LOOKING TO LOOK REALLY BIG, rather, lean and with a decent v-shape, kinda like a ufc bantam weight… I have mates who just lift anf just end up being bigger versions of the out of shape guys they were before. Not me, I go in for sculpting, changing.

I am 36 yrs old, 172cm and 75 kgs

Anyway all I want is feedback on my weights routines,I will never ever cut out or down on the cardio - I L.O.V.E my cardio. Sincerely.

ALSO AM UP FOR MAYBE ADDING AN EXERCISE FOR BI’S (BBELL CURLS?) AND TRI’S (DIPS?) on another one of my cardio days. I know people say that with rows and chins and push exercises ‘Guns take care of themselve’s’ - mine seem not to so much being an ectomorph.

Cheers all. My first post!

You really should have posted this in the beginner forum. (EDIT: now moved to the beginner forum)

But to summarize the general advice you’ll get: 1) pick ONE goal: gaining muscle, losing weight/getting cut, or getting stronger; 2) pick a known program that will help you reach that goal; 3) follow it, ask questions if they come up… like, “I don’t have access to a squat rack, what can I do instead?”

I doubt anyone here is going to say “great program! keep it up!” Most likely the opposite. Did you make it up yourself? It kind of looks that way to me.

Also, since you’re a self-described ectomorph, you need to eat more, and eat well. At least if you don’t want to stay like that.

Finally, if you haven’t already, actually read through some of the stickies… in the beginner forum especially.

Also…

Lol, wut? You’re in Korea; are you Korean?

Advice given to me: Don’t worry about that. You can’t make your lower back too thick.

Waist reduction occurs with diet (assuming you’re already exercising). Shoulder width comes from, well, shoulder exercises.

It sounded like you asked for advice, and then immediately said and heres a bunch of changes I wont make no matter what.

No squat rack, so go do Bulgarian split squats (with dumbbells!). You definitely DONT need a spotter for these at all whatsoever (im one of the most uncoordinated invidivuals ever and do these all the time)

Weighted lunges again, you do these with dumbells on your own.

The leg workout really isnt good at all, and the decision to not do dead-lifts for some bizarre reason is well just bizarre.

I guess you could do like weighted back-extensions instead of deads though.

“Sculpting changing” comes from diet

Putting on muscle comes from lifting big shit.

Having some predecided notion that certain exercises are going to make you look 'big" in a bad way is something you gotta overcome

I could try this variation of ‘starting strength’ 3 x a week, A B A, next week B A B. Mon / Wed / Fri

Workout A

3×5 Squat
3×5 Bench Press
1×5 Deadlift
3x5 Arnold press
5 x how many I CAN DO OF chins (at moment less than 4 as they have a really thick bar.)

Workout B

3×5 Squat
3×5 Overhead Press
3×5 Bent Over Rows
3x5 dips OR incline bench

Now, I personally am tempted to go 3 x 8 except on the deads… Also to include b’bell curls ONCE a WEEK. Cardio Tues and Thurs with heavy 3 x 10 abs done on one of those days and rest sat and sun. OR 20 - 30 mins steady state cardio after each workout and rest tues, thurs and sat and sun.

Maybe they advise only 5 reps due to the frequency…? But then ‘Stronglifts’ recommend the same same kinda exercises and 3 times a week but 5x5…

This one I outlined above is from Mark Riptoe’s ‘Starting Strength’ with chins added to Workout A and Dips / inc bench added to Workout B. I also added the Arnold press. Maybe delts 3 times a week not necessary, but they are the part I really need to work on.

Actually in the past I’ve tried 5x5 push /pull/ legs split and the same 6x4 all - mon / wed / fri.

BUT the best shape I’ve ever been in is when I did a full body workout 3 x a week with the SAME EXERCISES EACH WORKOUT LIKE THIS -

All 3 x 10 and mon / wed / fri

Flat bench
incline flies
Bent over b’bell rows
chins
arnold press
lateral d’bell raises
squats
b’bell bicep curls

I’m a lot older now though (36 and was only 30 then)and let myself go with the booze the last two years or so - been clean poff it since started back at gym 3 weeks ago. Maybe the starting strenght routine at the top of this post with the few extras I’ve added 3 x a week mon / wed / fri with 20 min steady cardio after might be a good one?

Ideas please?

I wanna be lean and still have good cardio ability. I am fine with diet have researched it fully.

Guess I want to do just 2 x weights a week as it saddens me to not go for long swims, HIIT sessions on the elliptical and 45 min runs in the park. I’d miss all that to much, it’s so much fun. I want that as well as some heavy lifting but understand that in that case the lifting must be at least 2 days, maybe 3 days apart each session.

You really can’t expect to get any bigger by adding lifting to your existing cardio routine, unless you also make some changes to your diet. Lifting stimulates the muscles to grow, but they don’t grow unless you feed them more. Lifting – even without muscle gain – is going to burn calories too. You need to account for that.

The recommendations are to have a minimum of 1g of protein per 1lb bodyweight (2.2g/kg) This is a minimum. Many other people here recommend up to twice that amount.

While it’s not true to Rippetoe… if you do Starting Strength and increase the weight progressively, you can do whatever you want as additional exercises. Just make sure you’re doing the Starting Strength part of it. Make sure you’re hitting your lifts. Just don’t screw up the basic program because of the other stuff you’re doing. Stronglifts recommends 5x5, that’s fine too.

Really, just stick to a progressive routine where you’re adding weight every session, until you can no longer do that. And give it some time to work, at least 6 weeks, 8-12 is better.

I’m mostly repeating what everyone else on here says.

[quote]leon36 wrote:
SO I think I’ll try the riptoe routine I outlined with added arnold press, lateral raises, chins and an upper chest exercise.

I think I’ll change it from 3 x 5 to 3 x 8 however.[/quote]

I think you’re better off sticking to the original 3x5 plan. If you want more volume, take it to 5x5. There’s something special about that particular number of reps per set, which is why a lot of foundational routines focus on it. (StrongLifts, Starting Strength, Reg Parks 5x5, etc.)

But you can do 3x8 on the other stuff if you want. After you do the core workout, the rest is up to whatever works for you.

[quote]And yeah I’m hitting 2g protien per kjg body weight.

Do I need to do that on weights days only or on cardio and rest days too?[/quote]

You need that every day. Make sure you’re getting adequate carbs and fat too. You need the protein for building muscle, so get enough carbs, otherwise the protein will just get burnt for energy.

are you happy with how you look right now? if you keep doing what you’ve always been doing, you’ll get the same results.

your upper body strength sucks if you can only do 3 chins in a set. get some lats and your waist will look smaller

if you’re only lifting 2x a week, you need to do something that will kick your ass. deadlifts, bss, chins, bench, etc.

your friends looked like out of shape versions of themselves because they were out of shape. if you are in shape, are strong and don’t eat crap, you will look good.

don’t ditch the cardio, but if you don’t put on the size/strength that you want, eat more then.

^^ Again, not trying to say I am not open to suggestion, but just that experience has shown me that 3 x 10 makes me grow and 5 x 5 just makes me stronger but not as much growth.

It’s all so confusing…

Full body mon wed fri at 3 x 10 one compound exercise per body part different exercise each body part per session?

Riptoe but change to 3 x 8 - 10?

Dont wanna do 5x5 or 3 x 5.

I’m just a man that likes higher reps.

As to the question on shape - the best shape I have been in was 3 x 10 full bod 3x a week. 2nd best (you’ll laugh but it’s true) was mon / wed / fri curcuit of step sprints, parrallell bar dips, varied pullups and chinups and decline sit ups.

I prefer and am going for this look - http://www.alexoloughlin.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/MensFitnessJuneJuly11.jpg

over this one - Bodybuilder 21 by Stonepiler on DeviantArt

Once I have achieved the shape I want, I SIMPLY WANT TO MAINTAIN IT.

Hope that makes sense and helps you guys with ideas to help me (and please don’t blow me off as I am not one of the ‘majority’ herein that i want to be massive :slight_smile:

Here’s how I look today. Some shape coming along and bi’s not too bad - when you consider the pic I posted as my ’ loose goal’ / desired body composition and shape.

Similar but better…

2 Times a Week for Twice the Gains

This thread.

Seriously though:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1764218
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1765943

Also:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1793585
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1795045

These are stickied for a reason.

[quote]leon36 wrote:
Another view

Now I know that’s not great but PLEASE bear in mind I have been working out for ONLY 3 and a half weeks after 2.5 years of nightly alcohol use of a minimum of 3 -4 pints a night to help me sleep and zero exercise. I had chronic insomnia for 3 years and am now on pharmacutical meds that make me sleep and have ditched the booze and feel WAAAAAAAY better for it!

(please no advice on meds, I am seeing a shrinky twice a month for that.)

Just advice on the best of the possible training routines I’ve posted to help me meet and maintain my desired composition / shape.

Again, I know I’m a newb, I know I’m ‘small’ compared to you guys I am just looking for a good steady routine I can stick to for 3-6 months at least, make modest gains and be in and out of the gym in 40 mins and do cardio at least 2 x a week, preferabley once steady state and once HIIT.

I appreciate you patience - and hopefully not taking the piss out mf my pics lol. Cheers fellas / and or gals.[/quote]

You’ve been training for 3 weeks?? why the fuck have you been giving out advice to beginners?

No zercher squats(?)

No squats, no deads. Knees just not good for it.

Well, it turns out my plan wasn’t that bad all along - Old School Full Body Routine - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Will finalise 3 x a week mon wed fri - ABA / BAB

A

Chins (5 sets of what I can do, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1)
pulll downs (until can hit my reps on chins these should help)
Incline bench (both vertical pull and push same day)
Lateral raises for delts (doing incline push on bench so not good to do another big vertical press same day, I’m learning…)
ez bar curls
leg press
calf press

B

Bent over barbell rows
Flat bench (both horizontal push and pull on same day = good)
Arnold press (as not doing another compound vertical push on same day, is okay)
Leg ext
ham curls
calf press
tricep dips

All 3 x 10 as hypertrophy is the name of my game and my aim

Now I CANNOT DO SQUATS OR DEADS. My knees will not tolerate it.

So I’m thinking cardio tues and thurs with heavy abs set on tues = 3 x sets decline crunches (will add weight when comfortable)and hypers on thurs for lower back, 3 x failiure until I feel like going weighted.

Not squating or deading, but at least some core work even though it’s in isolation.

Sat / Sun = rest days, which is good for me as they are my heaviest workload days at the esl school I teach at. Don’t want massive bulk, more get lean and maintain so will go for 1.5g lean protien per kg bodyweight, with 3 meals with a good mix of veg, clean carbs and lean protien, supplemented with 90% skimmed milk (or 10% fat milk, if you like.)

Seem fair enough?

Can we take away train wreck thread status now?

:wink:

Appreciate feedback, cheers.