Confession: I Went Vegetarian

This is the most idiotic collection of responses I’ve ever seen.

I see a lot of opinions here such as “The human body is more suited to eating meat than vegetables” by the same people who say “We are omnivores”.

Truth of the matter is, there is a shitton of scientific data going in every which direction on this issue because many different types of activists and meat producers have different agendas and pay different publications to print conflicting data.

Final thoughts:
If we are so MADE TO EAT MEAT, then why is it that every nutrition article on this site recommends one serving of veggies per meal. Also, I recall an article naming a bunch of superfoods. I don’t recall any of those superfoods being MEAT.

Balance is the key. The most biologically available sources of protein are not even straight up meat- they are whey and eggs.

We are made to be able to eat meat. Just like Northern Europeans are made to be able to drink milk in a way that a lot of Asians aren’t. Doesn’t mean they should drink milk just because they have the ability to do so.

[quote]Oleena wrote:
This is the most idiotic collection of responses I’ve ever seen.

I see a lot of opinions here such as “The human body is more suited to eating meat than vegetables” by the same people who say “We are omnivores”.

Truth of the matter is, there is a shitton of scientific data going in every which direction on this issue because many different types of activists and meat producers have different agendas and pay different publications to print conflicting data.

Final thoughts:
If we are so MADE TO EAT MEAT, then why is it that every nutrition article on this site recommends one serving of veggies per meal. Also, I recall an article naming a bunch of superfoods. I don’t recall any of those superfoods being MEAT.

Balance is the key. The most biologically available sources of protein are not even straight up meat- they are whey and eggs.

[/quote]

Tell that to an Inuit or Eskimo, they will take you to school about it.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Oleena wrote:
This is the most idiotic collection of responses I’ve ever seen.

I see a lot of opinions here such as “The human body is more suited to eating meat than vegetables” by the same people who say “We are omnivores”.

Truth of the matter is, there is a shitton of scientific data going in every which direction on this issue because many different types of activists and meat producers have different agendas and pay different publications to print conflicting data.

Final thoughts:
If we are so MADE TO EAT MEAT, then why is it that every nutrition article on this site recommends one serving of veggies per meal. Also, I recall an article naming a bunch of superfoods. I don’t recall any of those superfoods being MEAT.

Balance is the key. The most biologically available sources of protein are not even straight up meat- they are whey and eggs.

Tell that to an Inuit or Eskimo, they will take you to school about it. [/quote]

“Inuit Greenlanders, who historically have had limited access to fruits and vegetables, have the worst longevity statistics in North America. Research from the past and present shows that they die on the average about 10 years younger and have a higher rate of cancer than the overall Canadian population”
burg KM, Bronnum-Hansen H, Bjerregaard P. Health expectancy in Greenland. Scand J Public Health 2001;29(1):5-12. Choinere R. Mortality among the Baffin Inuit in the mid-80s. Arctive Med Res 1992;51 (2):87-93

[quote]eigieinhamr wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Oleena wrote:
This is the most idiotic collection of responses I’ve ever seen.

I see a lot of opinions here such as “The human body is more suited to eating meat than vegetables” by the same people who say “We are omnivores”.

Truth of the matter is, there is a shitton of scientific data going in every which direction on this issue because many different types of activists and meat producers have different agendas and pay different publications to print conflicting data.

Final thoughts:
If we are so MADE TO EAT MEAT, then why is it that every nutrition article on this site recommends one serving of veggies per meal. Also, I recall an article naming a bunch of superfoods. I don’t recall any of those superfoods being MEAT.

Balance is the key. The most biologically available sources of protein are not even straight up meat- they are whey and eggs.

Tell that to an Inuit or Eskimo, they will take you to school about it.

“Inuit Greenlanders, who historically have had limited access to fruits and vegetables, have the worst longevity statistics in North America. Research from the past and present shows that they die on the average about 10 years younger and have a higher rate of cancer than the overall Canadian population”
burg KM, Bronnum-Hansen H, Bjerregaard P. Health expectancy in Greenland. Scand J Public Health 2001;29(1):5-12. Choinere R. Mortality among the Baffin Inuit in the mid-80s. Arctive Med Res 1992;51 (2):87-93[/quote]

http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm

Again, some people seem to insist on using one example to try to generalize their own opinions.

ANYWAYS, thank you SO much for this post, and the blog, and the whole experiment, Chris Colucci!! This was very informative.

I just really wish that not all threads relating to vegetarianism would turn into a flamewar. You know, “we’re meant to do this, we’re meant to do that” is getting really old and boring. But worse than that, sometimes the bashing gets in the way of information. Really, I clicked on this post because I wanted to Chris’ blog, and his and other people’s thoughts on vegetarianism, not to read, for the thousandth time, about how non-meat eaters are weak, sick, uniformed about biology (apparently a lot of us bought our diplomas), bla bla bla.

I’m pretty darn sure that the author’s intention when he posted this was NOT to convert everyone here into vegetarians, so could you meat eaters, please, just pretty please, try to see it as information, and try not to disregard it as silly nonsense and refrain from trying to convert vegetarians into your own beliefs?

I’m pretty much in the same situation as AlysaV. I’m a beginner and Ive been noticing a lot of changes in my body in the last couple months of more serious lifing. I wasn’t overweight to begin with and I’m not sure if it makes the “beginner’s gains” more or less noticeable, but I’m pretty happy with them. I’ve been a vegetarian for a few years and have never had a problem with it. I also found that after cleaning up my diet, getting 100g of protein/day is pretty easy, and that doesn’t mean eating a ton of carbs with it. On low carb days I can easily stay under 30g of carbs. I do drink protein shakes, but not because I need it in order to ingest enough protein, but because they’re convenient (and tasty). I also take a multi but not because I’m a vegetarian. Considering I still drink milk (organic only), I’m not really worried about B12.

One of the arguements I hear the most against being a vegetarian is how it’s “harder” to eat well and build muscle on it. I honestly don’t agree, but understand. I can see how, if you’ve always been a meat eater, the transition is pretty hard. You have to learn to prepare a whole bunch of new stuff, most of it requires more than sprinkiling some herbs and sticking in the oven. Also, you might need to think a bit more about what you eat, and maybe you’ll need to eat more food to achieve the caloric/protein intake you’re aiming for.

But when it comes down to it, I’m seriously confused at why someone here on T-Nation would chose something based on how easy it is? I really think that most of us here don’t do things because they’re easy, otherwise this would be a forum for chubby people who eat junk food in front on the TV every night (much, much easier than weightlifting, right?)

So can we please just drop the “it’s harder to insert verb here on a vegetarian diet”?

The other thing I hear a lot about is how costly a vegetarian diet is, like Chris mentioned. It’s true. Pound per pound, clean vegetarian protein is more expensive than most meat, and the gap gets bigger if you’re not selective about what kind of meant you buy. That is about the one thing I can’t argue with. If my husband was to become a vegetarian, for example, it’d be kinda hard to afford it, I admit. I think I recall OctoberGirl saying something about not being a vegetarian anymore because of the costs (correct me if I’m wrong). That sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Oleena wrote:
This is the most idiotic collection of responses I’ve ever seen.

I see a lot of opinions here such as “The human body is more suited to eating meat than vegetables” by the same people who say “We are omnivores”.

Truth of the matter is, there is a shitton of scientific data going in every which direction on this issue because many different types of activists and meat producers have different agendas and pay different publications to print conflicting data.

Final thoughts:
If we are so MADE TO EAT MEAT, then why is it that every nutrition article on this site recommends one serving of veggies per meal. Also, I recall an article naming a bunch of superfoods. I don’t recall any of those superfoods being MEAT.

Balance is the key. The most biologically available sources of protein are not even straight up meat- they are whey and eggs.

Tell that to an Inuit or Eskimo, they will take you to school about it. [/quote]

I learned this stuff in school :slight_smile: http://www.eufic.org/page/en/faqid/biological-value-protein/

There’s actually a scale where proteins are measured in comparison to each other regarding which ones are the most biologically available to the human body. Whey is at 107, egg is at 100, and all other proteins are about 10 points below that. Beef is more biologically available than chicken, if I remember correctly.

[quote]Oleena wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Oleena wrote:
This is the most idiotic collection of responses I’ve ever seen.

I see a lot of opinions here such as “The human body is more suited to eating meat than vegetables” by the same people who say “We are omnivores”.

Truth of the matter is, there is a shitton of scientific data going in every which direction on this issue because many different types of activists and meat producers have different agendas and pay different publications to print conflicting data.

Final thoughts:
If we are so MADE TO EAT MEAT, then why is it that every nutrition article on this site recommends one serving of veggies per meal. Also, I recall an article naming a bunch of superfoods. I don’t recall any of those superfoods being MEAT.

Balance is the key. The most biologically available sources of protein are not even straight up meat- they are whey and eggs.

Tell that to an Inuit or Eskimo, they will take you to school about it.

I learned this stuff in school :slight_smile: http://www.eufic.org/page/en/faqid/biological-value-protein/

There’s actually a scale where proteins are measured in comparison to each other regarding which ones are the most biologically available to the human body. Whey is at 107, egg is at 100, and all other proteins are about 10 points below that. Beef is more biologically available than chicken, if I remember correctly.

[/quote]

were Inuit included in the study? As we know from studies on protein consumption, your subjects of the study can greatly vary the results.

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Ratchet wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
why do vegans feel the need to let the world know what they eat? Just curious.

The same reason 4 other people in this thread feel the need to tell him he is wrong…

and the same reason there is the anabolic diet thread, the carb cycling thread, the ketogenic thread, the rapid fat loss thread.

it’s folks sharing information and thankfully they do

seems as though you missed the point of the question. go highlight your hair.

did you really just resort to a personal insult and a pansy one at that?

you really do suck.

it’s steroids… there are steroids in vegetables

[/quote]

highlighter

[quote]slimthugger wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Ratchet wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
why do vegans feel the need to let the world know what they eat? Just curious.

The same reason 4 other people in this thread feel the need to tell him he is wrong…

and the same reason there is the anabolic diet thread, the carb cycling thread, the ketogenic thread, the rapid fat loss thread.

it’s folks sharing information and thankfully they do

seems as though you missed the point of the question. go highlight your hair.

did you really just resort to a personal insult and a pansy one at that?

you really do suck.

it’s steroids… there are steroids in vegetables

highlighter[/quote]

haha!! take that back!

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
storey420 wrote:

“the body is designed to eat meat. Humans evolved as meat eating animals”

not surwe how the other stuff you said relates at all but what is in quotes is what we are talking about. Please feel free to prove it and guess what? vegetarians evolved right along side their meat-eating counterparts in human history. I’m assuming that our dental design of having canines is your sole argument here or do you have some other “proof”

No, there is more “proof” out there that humans are omnivores. But shoot, you have a good point. I wasn’t even thinking about the whole dental/jaw aspect… Hmm…

I must have missed the lectures in highschool and college where they discussed how there are two separate human digestive tracts out there, omnivore & herbivore. I guess I have some serious reading to catch up on… Thanks.

I’m done, you win, humans aren’t designed to eat meat.

(BTW, thanks for the algae suggestion, I’m always looking for new foods to try. And your new avatar is pretty funny.)[/quote]

The ability of the human body to assimilate meat doesn’t necessarily equal “we are made to eat meat” any more than my ability to assimilate a piece of wood. I actually agree that certain body types may thrive better on meat, some don’t and if you really want to break it down the bigger problem with meat is the whole cooking it part.

I know…I know…I’m in Texas and may actually be suggesting that BBQ’ing the crap out of meat makes it more like poison to the body than nourishment
(I amy have my driver’s license revoked for that statement) and yes BBQ is f-ing tasty.

If we as humans were absolutely designed to eat meat and that is the best for us then why the elevated disease of multiple body systems in heavy meat eaters?

[quote]storey420 wrote:

The ability of the human body to assimilate meat doesn’t necessarily equal “we are made to eat meat” any more than my ability to assimilate a piece of wood. I actually agree that certain body types may thrive better on meat, some don’t and if you really want to break it down the bigger problem with meat is the whole cooking it part.

I know…I know…I’m in Texas and may actually be suggesting that BBQ’ing the crap out of meat makes it more like poison to the body than nourishment
(I amy have my driver’s license revoked for that statement) and yes BBQ is f-ing tasty.

If we as humans were absolutely designed to eat meat and that is the best for us then why the elevated disease of multiple body systems in heavy meat eaters?
[/quote]

Reading back over my posts, I guess I do need to clarify. As it was said above, balance is key. I just firmly believe meat is part of that balance.

As for the increased disease: I also generally subscribe to the “anything in excess is bad for you” cliche. I absolutely would never condone a diet of pure meat at all, much the same as I wouldn’t condone one of pure plant foods either. (Except in rare instances, and the only reason I have that exception is my buddies son. Poor kid is allergic to everything under the sun. He officially eats chicken for every meal. So There has to be someone out their who can only eat carrots, ya know?)So I’m going with it’s the heavy consumption more than any consumption period.

I’ve also read a few things, not that I’m saying I disagree with the increase in disease, in which the subjects seemed pretty piss poor. If someone’s diet is 1/3 sugar & 2/3 beef, and their idea of exercise is 12oz curls… Well those be shitty results on that study.

Plus the beef on the supermarket shelf is total trash most times. I don’t even want to think about what they feed and put in those cows. I try and buy free range/organic stuff, but even then, smaller farmers may “bulk up” their cows before sale.

And yeah cooking pretty much fucks up most food. But what can you do?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

And yeah cooking pretty much fucks up most food. But what can you do?[/quote]

Exactly. Most food just plains sucks without some cooking, and some are actually dangerous to eat raw.

Which is why I laugh when meat eaters play the “do things like cavemen did” card. Unless you’re killing it with your bare hands (maybe rudimentary spears and axes allowed, definitely no firearms), skinning it yourself, and eating everything up, from muscles to tendons to blood and sucking up the bones, I am sorry, you are NOT doing it even remotedly like a caveman. Oh, not to mention, no storing meat in the fridge (cavemen didn’t have that), and no accumulating more than what you can consume before it goes bad.

In fact, I (vegetarian), am waaaaay more of a cavewoman when I go to my parent’s house and eat mangoes out of the tree with my bare hands. That does give me a feeling of “this is how things are meant to be”. Hmmm… Yummy… :slight_smile:

[quote]BetaBerry wrote:
countingbeans wrote:

And yeah cooking pretty much fucks up most food. But what can you do?

Exactly. Most food just plains sucks without some cooking, and some are actually dangerous to eat raw.

Which is why I laugh when meat eaters play the “do things like cavemen did” card. Unless you’re killing it with your bare hands (maybe rudimentary spears and axes allowed, definitely no firearms), skinning it yourself, and eating everything up, from muscles to tendons to blood and sucking up the bones, I am sorry, you are NOT doing it even remotedly like a caveman. Oh, not to mention, no storing meat in the fridge (cavemen didn’t have that), and no accumulating more than what you can consume before it goes bad.

In fact, I (vegetarian), am waaaaay more of a cavewoman when I go to my parent’s house and eat mangoes out of the tree with my bare hands. That does give me a feeling of “this is how things are meant to be”. Hmmm… Yummy… :slight_smile:

[/quote]

A mango tree? You are so lucky. Even in Australia where we have great mangoes they are sooo expensive. Sucks.

I would also like to point out that potato is poisonous uncooked

Regardless of meat eating vs vegetarianism, I think a more important thing to consider is that the lack of eating crap food is key. Eating natural foods (meat and/or vegetables) would mean for a healthier, happier, and physique-enhanced individual.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Regardless of meat eating vs vegetarianism, I think a more important thing to consider is that the lack of eating crap food is key. Eating natural foods (meat and/or vegetables) would mean for a healthier, happier, and physique-enhanced individual. [/quote]

That’s definitely true and I’m sure we all agree on that. Vegetarians tend to hold a certain snob postion about this, but truth is, not eating meat doesn’t mean not eating junk. Even Burger king has a veggie burger, you know? But outside the bodybuilding world, most people don’t give a s*** about their diets. They don’t even think about what they put in their mouths. Most of these people, when they happen to stop eating meat, are kinda “forced” to start taking more consideration for what they eat. And I think that’s part of the reason why some studies show that vegetarian diets are healthier. If you compare them to the “average” american diet, hell yea they’re healthier. Now I wouldn’t say that my husband’s (meat eater) diet is unhealthy at all. Neither is mine. :slight_smile:

[quote]eigieinhamr wrote:
A mango tree? You are so lucky. Even in Australia where we have great mangoes they are sooo expensive. Sucks.
[/quote]

My parents live in Brazil, in a small town. Mangoes there are like, everywhere. Really cheap too. I remember the boys in my school played mango fights during break time… lol. My parents also have in their backyard: guavas, oranges, suriname cherries, and a coconut tree. Maybe I’ll show you a pic! hehe!

One a side note, meat from countries like Brazil is also healthier (and supposedly tastier, go figure!) than American meat. Most of our cows are grass fed, free range, all year round. I still wouldn’t eat them, but I’m happy to know at least they live a better, well, cow life.

Good points by all in this last round of posts. Very true. Many people are vegetarians but that just means they don’t eat meat but still eat mostly garbage and are no healthier than a meat eater. Veggie burgers and soy milk are NOT health food.

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Oleena wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Oleena wrote:
This is the most idiotic collection of responses I’ve ever seen.

I see a lot of opinions here such as “The human body is more suited to eating meat than vegetables” by the same people who say “We are omnivores”.

Truth of the matter is, there is a shitton of scientific data going in every which direction on this issue because many different types of activists and meat producers have different agendas and pay different publications to print conflicting data.

Final thoughts:
If we are so MADE TO EAT MEAT, then why is it that every nutrition article on this site recommends one serving of veggies per meal. Also, I recall an article naming a bunch of superfoods. I don’t recall any of those superfoods being MEAT.

Balance is the key. The most biologically available sources of protein are not even straight up meat- they are whey and eggs.

Tell that to an Inuit or Eskimo, they will take you to school about it.

I learned this stuff in school :slight_smile: http://www.eufic.org/page/en/faqid/biological-value-protein/

There’s actually a scale where proteins are measured in comparison to each other regarding which ones are the most biologically available to the human body. Whey is at 107, egg is at 100, and all other proteins are about 10 points below that. Beef is more biologically available than chicken, if I remember correctly.

were Inuit included in the study? As we know from studies on protein consumption, your subjects of the study can greatly vary the results.

[/quote]

Hm. I doubt that including Inuits in this study would alter the outcome of which proteins were the most biologically available, unless their chemical reactions and enzymes are different than other humans.

I agree with the above statements in regards to vegetarian diets… for the most part they are just as unhealthy as everyone else. I have vegetarian friends who live off of bagels, dried fruit, and soy products, which is not healthy (they don’t even eat vegetables!). The important thing is to be educated about what you are putting in your body. Good clean food, which gives your needed nutrients.

[quote]Oleena wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Oleena wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Oleena wrote:
This is the most idiotic collection of responses I’ve ever seen.

I see a lot of opinions here such as “The human body is more suited to eating meat than vegetables” by the same people who say “We are omnivores”.

Truth of the matter is, there is a shitton of scientific data going in every which direction on this issue because many different types of activists and meat producers have different agendas and pay different publications to print conflicting data.

Final thoughts:
If we are so MADE TO EAT MEAT, then why is it that every nutrition article on this site recommends one serving of veggies per meal. Also, I recall an article naming a bunch of superfoods. I don’t recall any of those superfoods being MEAT.

Balance is the key. The most biologically available sources of protein are not even straight up meat- they are whey and eggs.

Tell that to an Inuit or Eskimo, they will take you to school about it.

I learned this stuff in school :slight_smile: http://www.eufic.org/page/en/faqid/biological-value-protein/

There’s actually a scale where proteins are measured in comparison to each other regarding which ones are the most biologically available to the human body. Whey is at 107, egg is at 100, and all other proteins are about 10 points below that. Beef is more biologically available than chicken, if I remember correctly.

were Inuit included in the study? As we know from studies on protein consumption, your subjects of the study can greatly vary the results.

Hm. I doubt that including Inuits in this study would alter the outcome of which proteins were the most biologically available, unless their chemical reactions and enzymes are different than other humans.

[/quote]

you do know that different ethnicities do metabolize food at different levels. You just don’t see Asians eating a lot of dairy.

This has been talked about ad nauseum on here that certain cultures evolved eating certain macronutrients and as a result their bodies do handle those foods differently.

If you’ve read the articles on here about protein and the recommended amount you would know that depending on the group of subjects they did have varying results.

but doubt is good. Never rely on just one study.