[quote]storey420 wrote:
Good response Chris. I was trying to come up with some kind of non-attack response to his blathering but couldn’t come up with one other than how does someone with such a seemingly poor grasp of biology keep telling people to go learn biology.
[/quote]
Please, attack me if you must, but please god try and prove to me the human body is meant to be vegetarian.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Countingbeans, you raised some interesting points, but since you avoided the basic courtesy of reading the information I presented before calling me stupid, I don’t see the need for me to address any of the issues you brought up. Whatever your intentions were, this comment made you seem ignorant and closed-minded beyond reason.[/quote]
Wasn’t calling you per say stupid, although it did come off that way, I apologize. I just think ignoring the basic functions of the body is stupid.
As to why I didn’t read your blog. My Junior year in highschool I was vegetarian, the first half of my senior year vegan, and the last part “macrobiotic.” (Although the macrobiotic is a bit misleading, I drank an awful lot of beer, and was pretty much on drugs the entire time. I probably didn’t eat well at all, and remember very little about that time. Christ I don’t even know what I ate from day to day, so lets say I wasn’t. Although people tell me I was.)
I did the experiment myself. I regret it, and wasn’t for me, and I firmly believe unless you have to for medical reasons, no one should ignore the basic functions of the body. I understand that you approached it in a much more mature & intelligent way, but it doesn’t change the principle. Like I said, it is like over filling your tires on your car, it may be fine, even great for the first couple miles, but…
You don’t have to respond, because like you, my mind won’t be changed. I suppose it does make me “close minded” but I see it differently, rather “enlightened” to why, for me certainly, and most people I believe, it is foolish. The human body is both designed to eat meat, and in a world without factory supplements, needs meat to survive. I just wanted to apologize for calling you stupid, and I should have thought that sentence out more clearly, even though it wasn’t my intention.
[quote]slimthugger wrote:
why do vegans feel the need to let the world know what they eat? Just curious.[/quote]
The same reason 4 other people in this thread feel the need to tell him he is wrong…
[quote]Ratchet wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
why do vegans feel the need to let the world know what they eat? Just curious.
The same reason 4 other people in this thread feel the need to tell him he is wrong…
[/quote]
and the same reason there is the anabolic diet thread, the carb cycling thread, the ketogenic thread, the rapid fat loss thread.
it’s folks sharing information and thankfully they do
Thanks for the information, I’m not sure why such a post offended so many people. I’ve been thinking about going vegetarian for ethical and environmental reasons mostly, but I’m worried about my gains. Good to get more information about a topic which really needs more exploration.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Ratchet wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
why do vegans feel the need to let the world know what they eat? Just curious.
The same reason 4 other people in this thread feel the need to tell him he is wrong…
and the same reason there is the anabolic diet thread, the carb cycling thread, the ketogenic thread, the rapid fat loss thread.
it’s folks sharing information and thankfully they do
[/quote]
seems as though you missed the point of the question. go highlight your hair.
Chris,
While I understand and respect your decision for not pursuing your GI issues and just leaving it at “meat is bad”, I feel that you are dealing with the symptom and not the problem. That is your choice to make.
If you want to bring out books and material to prove your point, that’s also your call. There are a far higher number of people who eat meat and achieved great success than those who are vegetarian. If you want to go back to evolution vs creationism, both will show that meat was eaten.
Your main reason for not eating meat is purely individual. Your stomach has issues with it. I get that. If something bothered me, I would probably remove it from my diet as well.
Veganbodybuilding.com probably does have a few thousand members, and this is a speck compared to the number of meat eating BB’ers, PL’ers, football players, hockey, track, and every other sport you can think of. By far the numbers do not fall in your favor of your argument, any which way you slice it. But that’s ok because at the end of the day, we all choose to eat whatever we want. It works for you and thats awesome, if anything I am glad your stomach isn’t plagued with problems (being serious here).
This is similar to the split vs TBT issue. Or low carb vs low fat issue. Bottom line, what works for you? I stand firm in what I believe in, and so do you.
[quote]slimthugger wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Ratchet wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
why do vegans feel the need to let the world know what they eat? Just curious.
The same reason 4 other people in this thread feel the need to tell him he is wrong…
and the same reason there is the anabolic diet thread, the carb cycling thread, the ketogenic thread, the rapid fat loss thread.
it’s folks sharing information and thankfully they do
seems as though you missed the point of the question. go highlight your hair.[/quote]
did you really just resort to a personal insult and a pansy one at that?
you really do suck.
it’s steroids… there are steroids in vegetables
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
storey420 wrote:
Good response Chris. I was trying to come up with some kind of non-attack response to his blathering but couldn’t come up with one other than how does someone with such a seemingly poor grasp of biology keep telling people to go learn biology.
Please, attack me if you must, but please god try and prove to me the human body is meant to be vegetarian.
[/quote]
Don’t think I made that claim but while we are at it please do feel free to prove your argument, you know other than shitty anecdotal evidence like umm…yeah…will they are wayyymore meat eating athletes and stuff…
or yeah…will I ate vegetarian, probably poorly, can’t remember what exactly I was eating but I did it and my physique suffered.
Oh and for anyone else on this thread anemia is EASILY countered by adding some chlorella or blue-green algae to the diet. They both contain B-12 too.
[quote]slimthugger wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Ratchet wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
why do vegans feel the need to let the world know what they eat? Just curious.
The same reason 4 other people in this thread feel the need to tell him he is wrong…
and the same reason there is the anabolic diet thread, the carb cycling thread, the ketogenic thread, the rapid fat loss thread.
it’s folks sharing information and thankfully they do
seems as though you missed the point of the question. go highlight your hair.[/quote]
“The Intelligent and Relentless Pursuit of Muscle”
I put on the largest amount of my muscle while vegetarian (76 to 92-93) while vegetarian (ovo-lacto for some time and just ovo for some time when I was trying to remove acne).
While I eat some organic meat now and it’s a more convenient way to get protein, I always find it funny that people go on about how it’s impossible to gain muscle as a vegetarian, and the insecurity many people have about vegetarianism.
edit: I had my blood levels tested while I was a vegetarian taking no supplements, and I was not deficit in any nutrient.
[quote]storey420 wrote:
countingbeans wrote:
storey420 wrote:
Good response Chris. I was trying to come up with some kind of non-attack response to his blathering but couldn’t come up with one other than how does someone with such a seemingly poor grasp of biology keep telling people to go learn biology.
Please, attack me if you must, but please god try and prove to me the human body is meant to be vegetarian.
Don’t think I made that claim but while we are at it please do feel free to prove your argument, you know other than shitty anecdotal evidence like umm…yeah…will they are wayyymore meat eating athletes and stuff…
or yeah…will I ate vegetarian, probably poorly, can’t remember what exactly I was eating but I did it and my physique suffered.
Oh and for anyone else on this thread anemia is EASILY countered by adding some chlorella or blue-green algae to the diet. They both contain B-12 too.[/quote]
Okay, let me try and explain this so you can understand.
I never said someone couldn?t make gains on a vegetarian diet. In fact I don?t give a shit if someone ate rocks to get progress. (I mean anorexia often gets its desired results, does that mean it?s healthy & natural?)
What I did say is: the body is designed to eat meat. Humans evolved as meat eating animals, ignoring this fact does not mean you are healthy by default.
I?m shocked that I would need to prove my position, as a nutrition counselor I would assume you would understand this.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
that’s ok because at the end of the day, we all choose to eat whatever we want …
This is similar to the split vs TBT issue. Or low carb vs low fat issue. Bottom line, what works for you?[/quote]
Man, these few lines just about summarize the most basic reasons behind why I tried this experiment.
High fives all around.
[quote]slimthugger wrote:
seems as though you missed the point of the question.[/quote]
Feel free to clarify, or keep acting like a twerp. Either way.
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
As a female beginner I sure as heck built muscle on a vegetarian diet. If I make an effort I can get about 100 grams of protein a day, which is roughly where I need to be.[/quote]
Good to hear you’ve seen results before, but it sounds like you’re no longer a vegetarian. Have you expanded your diet?
Maybe yes or maybe no. Like I said in the “Tatooed Bodybuilders” section, it really depends on the person. If they’re truly motivated enough to make it in either of those sports (which is a major life commitment anyway), that’s when you end up with your Hilligenns and DeMarcos, and guys like Steve Holt, Kenneth Williams and Robbie Hazeley (a few other vegetarian bodybuilders, just to bolster the ranks).
[quote]eigieinhamr wrote:
I put on the largest amount of my muscle while vegetarian (76 to 92-93).[/quote]
I could be having a major brain fart, but are you saying you went from weighing 76kgs to weighing 92-93kgs (added about 17 kilos) as a vegetarian, or you were vegetarian from 1976 - 1992/93 (about 17 years) and that’s when you gained most of your muscle? Either way, sounds like it worked pretty well.
I think it was a Thomas Jefferson quote (I could be way off on that one), but in In Defense of Food, Michael Pollan quoted somebody who recommended approaching meat as a side dish, almost as a garnish, to accompany an otherwise-vegetarian main course.
I thought that was an interesting take on it, and it’s something I’ve tried to do a bit more.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
storey420 wrote:
countingbeans wrote:
storey420 wrote:
Good response Chris. I was trying to come up with some kind of non-attack response to his blathering but couldn’t come up with one other than how does someone with such a seemingly poor grasp of biology keep telling people to go learn biology.
Please, attack me if you must, but please god try and prove to me the human body is meant to be vegetarian.
Don’t think I made that claim but while we are at it please do feel free to prove your argument, you know other than shitty anecdotal evidence like umm…yeah…will they are wayyymore meat eating athletes and stuff…
or yeah…will I ate vegetarian, probably poorly, can’t remember what exactly I was eating but I did it and my physique suffered.
Oh and for anyone else on this thread anemia is EASILY countered by adding some chlorella or blue-green algae to the diet. They both contain B-12 too.
Okay, let me try and explain this so you can understand.
I never said someone couldn?t make gains on a vegetarian diet. In fact I don?t give a shit if someone ate rocks to get progress. (I mean anorexia often gets its desired results, does that mean it?s healthy & natural?)
What I did say is: the body is designed to eat meat. Humans evolved as meat eating animals, ignoring this fact does not mean you are healthy by default.
I?m shocked that I would need to prove my position, as a nutrition counselor I would assume you would understand this.
[/quote]
“the body is designed to eat meat. Humans evolved as meat eating animals”
not surwe how the other stuff you said relates at all but what is in quotes is what we are talking about. Please feel free to prove it and guess what? vegetarians evolved right along side their meat-eating counterparts in human history. I’m assuming that our dental design of having canines is your sole argument here or do you have some other “proof”
[quote]storey420 wrote:
“the body is designed to eat meat. Humans evolved as meat eating animals”
not surwe how the other stuff you said relates at all but what is in quotes is what we are talking about. Please feel free to prove it and guess what? vegetarians evolved right along side their meat-eating counterparts in human history. I’m assuming that our dental design of having canines is your sole argument here or do you have some other “proof”[/quote]
No, there is more “proof” out there that humans are omnivores. But shoot, you have a good point. I wasn’t even thinking about the whole dental/jaw aspect… Hmm…
I must have missed the lectures in highschool and college where they discussed how there are two separate human digestive tracts out there, omnivore & herbivore. I guess I have some serious reading to catch up on… Thanks.
I’m done, you win, humans aren’t designed to eat meat.
(BTW, thanks for the algae suggestion, I’m always looking for new foods to try. And your new avatar is pretty funny.)
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
eigieinhamr wrote:
I put on the largest amount of my muscle while vegetarian (76 to 92-93).
I could be having a major brain fart, but are you saying you went from weighing 76kgs to weighing 92-93kgs (added about 17 kilos) as a vegetarian, or you were vegetarian from 1976 - 1992/93 (about 17 years) and that’s when you gained most of your muscle? Either way, sounds like it worked pretty well.
[/quote]
Yes, 17 kilos and this was over 2 years (I admit it had noob gains as it was when I started training, this was second last and last year of highschool, and no I wasn’t still growing taller at this point, reached 6’5" in year 10), and it allowed me to play Rugby union in the most successful team at my school.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
As a female beginner I sure as heck built muscle on a vegetarian diet. If I make an effort I can get about 100 grams of protein a day, which is roughly where I need to be.
Good to hear you’ve seen results before, but it sounds like you’re no longer a vegetarian. Have you expanded your diet?
And anyhow, an ordinary guy or gal who’s vegetarian for ethical reasons might be willing to give up the already small chance of being a competitive bodybuilder or powerlifter.
Maybe yes or maybe no. Like I said in the “Tatooed Bodybuilders” section, it really depends on the person. If they’re truly motivated enough to make it in either of those sports (which is a major life commitment anyway), that’s when you end up with your Hilligenns and DeMarcos, and guys like Steve Holt, Kenneth Williams and Robbie Hazeley (a few other vegetarian bodybuilders, just to bolster the ranks).[/quote]
Nope, still vegetarian, sorry if that was unclear. And still improving.
And yes, I know, there are motivated & successful vegetarian bodybuilders. What I was trying to get at was that it seems silly to tell everyone, beginner to elite, that they shouldn’t be vegetarian. It’s clearly possible to make it to the top as a vegetarian; it’s possible and easy to make improvements as a vegetarian if you’re at a lower level.