With so many people I know having knee problems, a few of the guys at the gym had a little debate on the effectiveness of working legs via barbell squats vs leg press sleds. I’d like to hear everyone’s opinions on the 2. (Most people already understand the problems with performing squats ass-to-calf so no one goes down that low.)
Basically, I’m comparing parallel squats to full range leg press via sled.
Thanks.
I find squats to be easier on the knee than leg presses, but I’m not lifting anything all that heavy either. I think my best now is around 225X6, give or take.
But I did have a complete left knee reconstruction almost 11 years ago, so I know a bit about it. Squatting is what finally made my knee STOP hurting.
And don’t do parallel squats, do full range of motion. You put alot more stress on the knee stopping at around 90 degrees of flexion than you do going through the full range of motion.
most important rule: dont listen to people at the gym.
there is no better or safer squat than the ATG, ATC whatever you wanna call it… a full back squat. especially if you push your butt back instead of straight down so your knees dont come too forward.
squats beat leg press any time.
also… wrong forum
What forum should this have gone under? I checked the different ones and it only seemed to fit this one or bodybuilding. I had a 50/50 shot at getting it right…
[quote]Rob320 wrote:
I’m a fucking moron[/quote]
beginners, bodybuilding, strength sports, any forum on here to discuss training. NOT THE PLACE FOR FUCKING DIET/LIFTING LOGS.
are you seriously that dumb?
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
beginners, bodybuilding, strength sports, any forum on here to discuss training. NOT THE PLACE FOR FUCKING DIET/LIFTING LOGS.
are you seriously that dumb?[/quote]
I was asking a question and maybe it got put on the wrong forum. After seeing a few people’s responses to it, apparently it was. Sound the alarms zephead. Someone made a mistake…
Thanks for the laugh.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Rob320 wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
beginners, bodybuilding, strength sports, any forum on here to discuss training. NOT THE PLACE FOR FUCKING DIET/LIFTING LOGS.
are you seriously that dumb?
I was asking a question and maybe it got put on the wrong forum. After seeing a few people’s responses to it, apparently it was. Sound the alarms zephead. Someone made a mistake…
Thanks for the laugh.
how does this remedy the fact you’re fucking stupid. “It only fit in here or bodybuilding” stupid. You shouldn’t be the one laughing. You should be the one questioning how you managed to get out of the second grade with your reading comprehension.
EDIT: This guy has decided to pick a fight with pms with me. I’ve proceeded to tell him his genes need to be weeded out of the gene pool. Only god knows what’s next.[/quote]
Actually, I didn’t pick the fight with you. I informed you, in private, that I didn’t appreciate the post you left so other people didn’t have to read what I had to say to you. The way it should be. But, I see you need public support and needed to come back and open it up in here.
I’m not going to argue about it with you any more. If anyone wants to support your name-calling and the overall fact that you are a dick because someone posted something to the inappropriate forum. Fine.
All forums are full of people like that. We just tolerate your kind because we actually get good advice from the few and that keeps us coming back and asking further questions.
[quote]Rob320 wrote:
Actually, I didn’t pick the fight with you. I informed you, in private, that I didn’t appreciate the post you left so other people didn’t have to read what I had to say to you. The way it should be.
But, I see you need public support and needed to come back and open it up in here. I’m not going to argue about it with you any more. If anyone wants to support your name-calling and the overall fact that you are a dick because someone posted something to the inappropriate forum. Fine.
All forums are full of people like that. We just tolerate your kind because we actually get good advice from the few and that keeps us coming back and asking further questions.
[/quote]
Public support? No one else has mentioned anything. You’re fucking stupid. And that’s the end of it. I posted that comment during your little pissy fit over you being told you’re a moron. Which by the way, you are.
Also, how many times are you going to end this arguement. I could of swore I got a pm from you some minutes ago saying you where done with it. Get used to it. No one here is going to coddle you on here and think it’s okay to post training questions in the LOGS section.
You made a dumbass post, and I called you out on it. And you decided to bite. And look where you are. Having picked and lost an arguement on the internet with a 16 year old. You big man you.
I’m glad that was settled.
Anyway, if anyone has any real information, just PM me. Thanks.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Rob320 wrote:
I’m a fucking moron
beginners, bodybuilding, strength sports, any forum on here to discuss training. NOT THE PLACE FOR FUCKING DIET/LIFTING LOGS.
are you seriously that dumb?[/quote]
The guy made a mistake, who the fuck made you the police at 5’9" and a 170.
zephead you’re 16, well that explains it. Geez calm down you need anger management or something. He made a mistake…an increddibly small one and to you that means his genes need to be wiped from the gene pool. Ummm I drama queen I think.
lol at the backlash against zappo!! lmfao!
karma… gets us all in the end… some sooner than others.!
OP, I love squats, i cannot perform full atg free bar… so i do power sq. and atg smith, then atg front.
I have done leg presses and got upto a fine ol’ weight on it of 8 plates a side (25’s of course) with decent form - full rom with 7, so lets stick with 7. I got some good growth, but my leg/knees woild shake under all the weight bearing down onto the joint (soft knee but still)… i mean thats like 400kgs just counting the plates. I was about 73kgs at the time - my body wasnt built to hold that much, not even as a heavy support (between reps).
As for squat, you can lift what you can lift. what your progression and body can handle. I can now do 3 plates a side on that, and it is good, in proportion to my body, size and overall strength. I go 1" below parallel. Then the other squat exercises i mentioned.
Overall, i prefer squats, they have given me some much improvement on my legs, which are almost upto par with the upper half, something not many of us can say.
I believe executed safely they both have their advantages and dis, but i would go with the squat first choice anytime, until i think my own physical condition dictates whether i should have a large load on my neck or not!
I think with balanced programming, good health and joint mobility, squats executed well are safe and very very effective, at building the WHOLE upper leg in its variations.
The leg press is just its cheaper cousin, that people either choose due to injury, weakeness of the mind, as an anillary exercise or as a rotational replacement.
As will all exercises it has its place and is high in the food chain, but not as high as a free barbell back squat.
Joe
For me I prefer to do front squats over back squats and leg press. I do legs 2x in 8 days so I try to do front squat and light leg press one day, and then back sqaut and heavy leg press the other day.
I find that I need to add the leg press in heavy on the back squat day because my form is so piss poor with back squat that I cant go heavy enough to fatigue my muscles safely.
So just like Joe said, it all has its place if you know where to add it.
Squats destroy leg press every time!
I have a simple test to prove it and it has worked every time.
I never leg press. I do squats lunges and deads. One of the trainers at a gym I worked at never squated just did leg presses. He wanted to do a leg session with me and demanded leg presses were better abd we should do them instead of squats. I had not done a leg press in over 5 years.
I said I would leg press with him to prove a point that squats are better. We did his workout and loaded up the leg press with about 12 plates on each side he did 5 reps and I did 12. The next leg workout he squated with me and he got about 225 for 5 reps while I did 315 sets of 10.
We were about the same size and weight.
When done with correct form squats are perfectly safe on the knees.
[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
lol at the backlash against zappo!! lmfao!
karma… gets us all in the end… some sooner than others.!
OP, I love squats, i cannot perform full atg free bar… so i do power sq. and atg smith, then atg front.
In The Poliquin Principles Charles talks about how smith machine squats cause increased shearing forces on the knees due to lack of hamstring involvement. The smith bar allows the squater to lean back against the barbell, thereby supporting your back and minimizing hip extnesion during the exercise. This takes the hamstring out of the exercise. The hamstring is the muscle group that help that helps stabalize the knee cap.
Use both. They’re both good tools. But the squat is the better choice if you only could only do one or the other. Widowmaker (20 rep) squats definitely will help lagging legs. Some heavier guys (over 240lbs) have trouble performing high rep squats because they run out of breathe too easily. The next best tools would pick would be the hack squat or leg press if that was the case.
BTW, I found this thread extremely entertaining. LOL I’m sure the OP got a good laugh out of that.
OP good luck.
You’ll be hard pressed to find a leg press machine that even allows the same amount of ROM as a Parallel Squat. For this reason, a Machine Hack Squat is always preferable to any Leg Press.
The Squat is superior for any goal for just about every reason you can conceive of.
(1) It’s healthier for your joints because it doesn’t cause a sheering force on your knee joint.
(2) Squats are much better at putting on size. Look at the people who only do leg press and use all the plates they can fit on the machine. This isn’t that hard to do. Now look at someone deep squatting 405…They’re much bigger and stronger.
(3) Leg Presses give you a false impression of your own strength. It’s not hard to find someone with an unimpressive physique who can Leg Press 700 pounds and still be weak in ever other lift. But find someone who can squat 495 and they’ll be strong in more than the squat.
(4) Leg Presses use less muscles. There’s no hip extension. There’s no supporting a barbell with your torso. All you do is push with your legs.
(5) If you are bringing your knees all the way to your chest, then you’re probably rounding your lower back to do so. Where do you think all the weight the leg press sled is going? Straight to your flexed spine. That’s not good.
There are a lot of big strong people who leg press, but they pretty much always get on the leg press after they’ve done their squats.
[quote]Rob320 wrote:
(Most people already understand the problems with performing squats ass-to-calf so no one goes down that low.)
[/quote]
As long as you maintain a tight arch in your lower back, it’s safe to go to any depth below parallel. Do what flexibility allows.
Barring injuries preventing one from squatting, squatting is far superior in my book. When I first started actually working legs, leg press and deadlifts were my two main lower body exercises. I saw some hypertrophy, but not much increase in strength, and I hit a plateau pretty fast.
Once I switched to squats, the hypertrophy and strength gains have continued ever since, as long as I switch up the rep ranges and stances from time to time. Besides, you’ll never be as tired from a 20 rep leg press as from an all out 20 rep squat, simply no comparison.
I’ve found a few differences between the two. First is that I can’t go as “deep” on the leg press as I can squat. I squat atg but on the leg press it seems like I can only go just below parallel before things get uncomfortable.
The other difference is that I feel squats hit my glutes and calves much more than the leg press. I don’t really know if that’s a result of foot position or depth on the leg press, but that’s what I experience. Full back squats give me much more bang for my buck. I use leg press instead of leg extensions though.
That being said, there are plenty of people that I’ve seen build great legs on the leg press. I think Professor X is somebody on this site that’s had great success this way.