Oh, and if you want to improve rear delts, may as well do added side delt work as well and maybe something else… Such a small muscle-group after all.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]Mateus wrote:
Thanks for responding and as directed I have reposted this here in your thread.
CC, firstly, thanks for all the info/advice in all the threads you participate in. Especially the DC thread. I love the DC program but I just can’t make it work any longer. Forced to do it during my lunch hour and it takes longer than I am allowed (been going over anyway) and I have been advised to fix that (oops). I am thinking of a 4 day split and wanted some suggestions of what you have used in the past. Thinking of doing a M,T,W,F w/ the w/e off. I have never done a 4 way split, always a 3 day or a 5 day so i am just curious as to exercise selection, pairings and setup.
I have about 50 minutes of actual lifting time with a partner and we move fairly quick between sets. I think that 1 or 2 exercises per major group would suffice along with a finisher or a isolation for certain body parts. I have put a few things together but I have a bad habit of doing too much and over complicating things. One of the reasons why DC was/is so attractive.
Any insight or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
[/quote]
Hope that my post in response to that other pm gets through, look at that one for inspiration.
If you have 6 days (=shortest sessions), you can use my routine and exercise selection (calves/abs can be done between sets of other exercises if you want, esp. on arm muscle days and chest day etc) and then go from there (change rep ranges to your preference, but do keep them heavy if you want to progress…
My bis, esp. on alt. curls and such, go better with low reps, but some people’s progress easier in the 8-12 range or so…
And if people are on gear, then of course they can potentially get the same weight-on-bar increases from 10-12 that I get from 4-6 or 5-8, so keep all that in mind and change things depending on your situation…
Just keep the general spirit: Fairly low volume per session, fairly heavy, loose form but technique must be spot on and setup too (the loose form mostly on “isolation” work where you go heavy), pick a weak spot to train twice (in my case rear and side delts are not a weak point per se, but they’re nowhere good enough so I train them again on bicep day with higher reps than on delt day). My leg day is a bit DC-ish, if you want a more standard leg day, go with 2 exercises each for quads and hams and no widowmaker.
And as written in the other post, for less training days, combine bis and/or tris with one of the major parts respectively and go with 2 exercises for them instead of 3 (still maybe 3 for tris, depends).
Note: I don’t do the “light bis/tris” on chest and back day, that’s for the guys on here whose arms suck.
But with the heavy max-ot’ish arm sessions, that may not even be necessary.
[/quote]
So I went to the gym before I saw your reply and this is kinda what I came up with. Let me know what you think.
Monday:
Inc DB Press 3x5-7 (alternating inc.smith and incline HS)
Flat DB Press 2x5-7
lying DB extensions 2x5-7
push downs 2x8-10
pec deck finisher 25 rep
Tuesday:
Rack Pulls 3x6-8
Kroc rows 2x8-10
HS high row 2x8-10
ez bar curls 2x12-15 maybe more
pinwheel curl 2x10
Wednesday:
High Inc Smith 2x6-10
Arnold Presses 2x8
Plate raises 2x8-10
Bent over side raises 2x6-8
calves in between sets. seated and standing
Friday:
SLDL 2x8-12 or sumo press. not sure yet
Glute raises 2x8-10
Hack Squats 3x10-12 (alternating with leg press)
Leg extension finisher maybe.
What do you think?
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Also, at 18, you may have a difficult time getting bigger… It’s easiest in your 20’s imo… You may have to eat a very large amount.
[/quote]
How significant do you think this is? I recently turned 18 and although it’s not like I’ll stop working out until I’m 20+, it seems like I’m definitely not getting the results I would expect for what I do, especially compared to others (who would fall into the 20+ category).
[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Also, at 18, you may have a difficult time getting bigger… It’s easiest in your 20’s imo… You may have to eat a very large amount.
[/quote]
How significant do you think this is? I recently turned 18 and although it’s not like I’ll stop working out until I’m 20+, it seems like I’m definitely not getting the results I would expect for what I do, especially compared to others (who would fall into the 20+ category). [/quote]
C_C do you say this because being 18 you would have to eat more (metabolism) or due to something else like hormonal changes?
[quote]Mateus wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]Mateus wrote:
Thanks for responding and as directed I have reposted this here in your thread.
CC, firstly, thanks for all the info/advice in all the threads you participate in. Especially the DC thread. I love the DC program but I just can’t make it work any longer. Forced to do it during my lunch hour and it takes longer than I am allowed (been going over anyway) and I have been advised to fix that (oops). I am thinking of a 4 day split and wanted some suggestions of what you have used in the past. Thinking of doing a M,T,W,F w/ the w/e off. I have never done a 4 way split, always a 3 day or a 5 day so i am just curious as to exercise selection, pairings and setup.
I have about 50 minutes of actual lifting time with a partner and we move fairly quick between sets. I think that 1 or 2 exercises per major group would suffice along with a finisher or a isolation for certain body parts. I have put a few things together but I have a bad habit of doing too much and over complicating things. One of the reasons why DC was/is so attractive.
Any insight or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
[/quote]
Hope that my post in response to that other pm gets through, look at that one for inspiration.
If you have 6 days (=shortest sessions), you can use my routine and exercise selection (calves/abs can be done between sets of other exercises if you want, esp. on arm muscle days and chest day etc) and then go from there (change rep ranges to your preference, but do keep them heavy if you want to progress…
My bis, esp. on alt. curls and such, go better with low reps, but some people’s progress easier in the 8-12 range or so…
And if people are on gear, then of course they can potentially get the same weight-on-bar increases from 10-12 that I get from 4-6 or 5-8, so keep all that in mind and change things depending on your situation…
Just keep the general spirit: Fairly low volume per session, fairly heavy, loose form but technique must be spot on and setup too (the loose form mostly on “isolation” work where you go heavy), pick a weak spot to train twice (in my case rear and side delts are not a weak point per se, but they’re nowhere good enough so I train them again on bicep day with higher reps than on delt day). My leg day is a bit DC-ish, if you want a more standard leg day, go with 2 exercises each for quads and hams and no widowmaker.
And as written in the other post, for less training days, combine bis and/or tris with one of the major parts respectively and go with 2 exercises for them instead of 3 (still maybe 3 for tris, depends).
Note: I don’t do the “light bis/tris” on chest and back day, that’s for the guys on here whose arms suck.
But with the heavy max-ot’ish arm sessions, that may not even be necessary.
[/quote]
So I went to the gym before I saw your reply and this is kinda what I came up with. Let me know what you think.
Monday:
Inc DB Press 3x5-7 (alternating inc.smith and incline HS)
Flat DB Press 2x5-7
lying DB extensions 2x5-7
push downs 2x8-10
pec deck finisher 25 rep
Tuesday:
Rack Pulls 3x6-8
Kroc rows 2x8-10
HS high row 2x8-10
ez bar curls 2x12-15 maybe more
pinwheel curl 2x10
Wednesday:
High Inc Smith 2x6-10
Arnold Presses 2x8
Plate raises 2x8-10
Bent over side raises 2x6-8
calves in between sets. seated and standing
Friday:
SLDL 2x8-12 or sumo press. not sure yet
Glute raises 2x8-10
Hack Squats 3x10-12 (alternating with leg press)
Leg extension finisher maybe.
What do you think? [/quote]
bump
CC,
In professor X’s thread, you showed me an example of how you might ramp up to a top set (using my case). There are only a few warm up sets with “a few” reps," so I’m wondering where all the training volume comes from.
Personally 5 reps and below seem to be give me best size and strength gains. Using the bench press as an example again, 195 was my 5RM and I am working to make it my 10RM. Once I can push out 195 for 10 reps, I plan on upping the weight to my 2-3 RM and starting over. Is this your approach as well?
I asked the professor the same thing but I was wondering if I could get your opinion as well. When you come into the gym and hit the same reps at the same weight as the session before, do you call it a day on that exercise and move on? I always try to beat my previous record but this is unrealistic. After that set, I wonder if I should lower the weight and dominate some more or call it quits.
Best,
MM
[quote]Mateus wrote:
[quote]Mateus wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]Mateus wrote:
Thanks for responding and as directed I have reposted this here in your thread.
CC, firstly, thanks for all the info/advice in all the threads you participate in. Especially the DC thread. I love the DC program but I just can’t make it work any longer. Forced to do it during my lunch hour and it takes longer than I am allowed (been going over anyway) and I have been advised to fix that (oops).
I am thinking of a 4 day split and wanted some suggestions of what you have used in the past. Thinking of doing a M,T,W,F w/ the w/e off. I have never done a 4 way split, always a 3 day or a 5 day so i am just curious as to exercise selection, pairings and setup.
I have about 50 minutes of actual lifting time with a partner and we move fairly quick between sets. I think that 1 or 2 exercises per major group would suffice along with a finisher or a isolation for certain body parts. I have put a few things together but I have a bad habit of doing too much and over complicating things. One of the reasons why DC was/is so attractive.
Any insight or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
[/quote]
Hope that my post in response to that other pm gets through, look at that one for inspiration.
If you have 6 days (=shortest sessions), you can use my routine and exercise selection (calves/abs can be done between sets of other exercises if you want, esp. on arm muscle days and chest day etc) and then go from there (change rep ranges to your preference, but do keep them heavy if you want to progress…
My bis, esp. on alt. curls and such, go better with low reps, but some people’s progress easier in the 8-12 range or so…
And if people are on gear, then of course they can potentially get the same weight-on-bar increases from 10-12 that I get from 4-6 or 5-8, so keep all that in mind and change things depending on your situation…
Just keep the general spirit: Fairly low volume per session, fairly heavy, loose form but technique must be spot on and setup too (the loose form mostly on “isolation” work where you go heavy), pick a weak spot to train twice (in my case rear and side delts are not a weak point per se, but they’re nowhere good enough so I train them again on bicep day with higher reps than on delt day). My leg day is a bit DC-ish, if you want a more standard leg day, go with 2 exercises each for quads and hams and no widowmaker.
And as written in the other post, for less training days, combine bis and/or tris with one of the major parts respectively and go with 2 exercises for them instead of 3 (still maybe 3 for tris, depends).
Note: I don’t do the “light bis/tris” on chest and back day, that’s for the guys on here whose arms suck.
But with the heavy max-ot’ish arm sessions, that may not even be necessary.
[/quote]
So I went to the gym before I saw your reply and this is kinda what I came up with. Let me know what you think.
Monday:
Inc DB Press 3x5-7 (alternating inc.smith and incline HS)
Flat DB Press 2x5-7
lying DB extensions 2x5-7
push downs 2x8-10
pec deck finisher 25 rep
Tuesday:
Rack Pulls 3x6-8
Kroc rows 2x8-10
HS high row 2x8-10
ez bar curls 2x12-15 maybe more
pinwheel curl 2x10
Wednesday:
High Inc Smith 2x6-10
Arnold Presses 2x8
Plate raises 2x8-10
Bent over side raises 2x6-8
calves in between sets. seated and standing
Friday:
SLDL 2x8-12 or sumo press. not sure yet
Glute raises 2x8-10
Hack Squats 3x10-12 (alternating with leg press)
Leg extension finisher maybe.
What do you think? [/quote]
bump
[/quote]
I may even throw a short Thur. session in there for a 2nd chest day. An area I want to bring up. If so, should I keep the rep ranges the same or change the % weight and increase rep range??
I tried out JM presses the other day on the vert chest press and just wondering what seat position you recommend? I saw a youtube video of shelby starnes doing them with the seat up high enough that the handles were a few inches below nipple. I’ve also seen a couple videos of people doing them with the handles neck high. Any preference?
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Got a pm, can’t respond via message so I have to do it here:
If you want something fairly simple to stick with, and you’re not sure which direction you want to go (PL or BB), other than 5/3/1 there would be Max-OT… Now that is a bit too rigid for my tastes, esp. in the rep-range (too low for some exercises), so mix that a bit with some more yates-type stuff and you have yourself a “low volume” routine with short sessions which works really well for both size and strength.
I’ve posted 5/3/1 routines before, so I’ll post the max-ot/yates hybrid instead. If you want, you can simply do 5/3/1 (10% table, not 5%) on 3-4 main lifts instead of the set/rep combo I outline below, but you really don’t have to.
A word of warning: Do your research on proper setup and execution on all exercises and listen to your body.
Also, at 18, you may have a difficult time getting bigger… It’s easiest in your 20’s imo… You may have to eat a very large amount.
Generally, with routines like this: Keep protein at 1.8 to 2 grams per lb of bodyweight (at your size, you can probably get away with only 1.5, but the more you have while also getting in enough fats and carbs as needed, the faster you’ll recover and get strong, less plateaus…), eat like someone 20-30 lbs heavier than you (adjust upwards if you have a very active lifestyle and/or fast metabolism), and do cardio if necessary (at your weight, doesn’t matter too much if it’s HIIT style stuff or fasted steady state, low int… Just DON’T OVERDO IT!).
Note: Max OT guys alter their routines a bit every 4 weeks or so… Now, that doesn’t mean big changes, keep most of your exercises (esp. main ones) the same, but perhaps restructure things a little or so.
I’d do it every 6 weeks tops, but that’s just me.
Also, take a week off (or only do light, high rep work non-failure) every 6 weeks to keep from burning out, but since we use more moderate rep ranges here than in actual max-ot, you won’t have to necessarily stop training completely during those weeks…
6-day, very short sessions (note: Rest between work sets: 2-3 minutes. 3 are better for DB exercises and big exercises imo). Warm-ups: Ramped, with reps decreasing.
Rep style: Explosive or at least fast positives (try), controlled negatives (don’t let the weights drop like stones and bounce out of the bottom)
Day 1 - Chest (light tris)
-Flat or Incline DB, BB, Machine… Pinch shoulder blades together and pull them down! No need to lock out. If doing BB here, make sure you do it with powerlifting setup. 2x5-8
-Whatever angle you didn’t do above, or decline: DB, BB (not on flat though), Machine, 2x5-8 or higher reps if you like, such as 7-10 or more
(could do pec deck or hybrid fly presses here, but I’d leave those out at first, higher reps for pec deck, 1-2 sets)
-Rope Extensions ala Justin Harris, watch him on youtube… 2x7-10+ or so, or one-arm reverse pushdowns… Pinch shoulder blades in either case… Can use some pullover motion, but not without the right shoulder blade setup (otherwise too much lat, not enough tricep), or keep elbows fairly steady (more lateral+medial head), your call. Could do the one-arm reverse (note: lean to the side as far as necessary to make it comfortable on your wrists depending on the side angle between your upper arm bone and forearm) as a second exercise for a set of high reps, ala 10-15 or so, too.
Day 2 - Back (light bis)
-Seated Pulley rows, wide or medium D handles or so, or Hammerstrength low rows, or T-bars with a medium or wide grip…, Make sure you retract your shoulder blades as main part of each positive and let them come out of retraction on the negative. This is also not about getting the elbows as far back as possible, but the shoulders. 2x6-10+, going too close to your max is going to turn those into an arm exercise…
Remember, pull with the muscles acting on your shoulder blades, not the arms or even lats (at least not much).
-Pullups (not wide grip, not close either) or HS Pulldown, HS high row, or whatever… 2x7-10+
-V-Handle Rows or some such, bit more of a width thing again, 1-2x7-10+.
-Standing (one arm holding onto something) and leaning one-arm offset curls… Thumb at plate. Start in hammer position, curl up forcefully while supinating your wrist, then keep it supinated on the way down, only put it back into neutral position at the bottom. Slow the negatives down some, a 4-count in the head or so…
2x7-10+
Day 3 - Delts (no traps here as yesterday was back day and tomorrow you’ll be doing deads or sumo deads).
-Seated High Incline (seat one or two notches below vertical) Presses, DB, BB, Machine, whatever. 2x5-10 or 6-9 or so.
-Bent-Over laterals, can be done from a dead stop (use sumo DL stance if conv. DL stance bothers your back/flexibility… Depending on arm vs leg length, you may want to set the 'bells down on some stacked plastic mats or something like that). 2x4-8
-Laterals, DB or machine (machine being better if you have a good one) 2x5-8 or so. Standing: can rest them at the side (dead stop between reps), tense up before each positive, mind shoulder blades… Or DB’s in front and slightly bent at the hip joints, turn them into more of an upright row hybrid with elbows bent more etc.
Go with what’s comfortable on the shoulders. Don’t raise the bells higher than feels good.
-Rope face pulls (long rope) in the seated row station or so… Add an external rotation to the positive of each rep, as shown in CT’s recent vids… Or do regular face pulls (to the upper chest or so) in the lat-pulldown with a lat bar or wide-neutral bar, lean back sufficiently (throughout the whole rep, no coming forward!).
Day 4 - Legs, traps if you want., abs
-Sumo Deadlift (or conventional if you’re built for it, but I have a feeling that most on this forum are better off learning how to make sumo work for them… Judging by how every other poster here has a messed up disk or something)… You don’t necessarily need to go super wide in stance, can go fairly mid-stance-ish…
2x4-6, but don’t force failure… Double-overhand imo, don’t go too close in the grip either… Whatever is comfortable. Wear shorts that don’t restrict your movement and aren’t too tight around the stomach! That can make an amazing amount of a difference in your flexibility etc.
After each lockout, pinch shoulder blades together (though not down), chest out (but don’t overarch your spine, keep abs tight!), then let shoulders come back into normal position and put the bar back down.
Dead Stop between each rep, re-set if necessary between reps.
-Front Or Back Squats (back squat only if it doesn’t bother the shoulders etc), or Hack Machine or Leg Press… 1-2 x 4-6 (or 8), then one widowmaker set ala DC (16-20+, with short breaks where necessary).
If you skip the widowmaker, add a second quad exercise, otherwise don’t bother.
Note: You can do either quads or hams first, your call, and depending on what needs to be brought up more. I’d go with hams in most cases though… And do this with proper technique and setup. No fucked up lower backs, or else.
Train calves on other days perhaps… Chest day, Tricep day… 2-3x6-10… Or DC-style 1x10-12 with special protocol (read up on it).
-DB, BB, Machine Shrugs (if you want), 1 set of 8-15… Don’t do too much here, tomorrow you’ll need a tight setup for tris.
-Can add reverse hyper machine or GH raises or Cable SLDL or some such here for hams. 1-2 sets, higher reps.
-Ab Wheel Rollouts (could also be done on tricep day instead).
Day 5: Triceps and whatever you want (abs and/or calves if you like to do them here instead of leg day)
-Press variant (Close-grip Pl setup, elbows tucked on the way down and in the hole, then you can flare them on the way up if you want. Grip as wide as necessary for full tuck and no wrist discomfort… Or do close neutral grip DB presses, elbows just slightly flared maybe, keep bells close to body, touch high).
Tight setup! 2x4-6 up to 8+ if you can.
-EZ Extensions, lying, bar comes down behind head (pullover+extension, but you don’t need to go crazy far down… Pinch shoulder blades together and keep shoulder joints from rising towards your ears!.. Positive ends with upper arms at an incline, not perpendicular to the floor). Your main long-head exercise. 2x6-8+ or so. Don’t bounce out of the bottom.
-Lying DB Extensions, bells come down behind head, Same as EZ Extensions really… Most have shitty long heads and you train medial and lateral heads with all the pressing already. 2x6-8+
And then whatever other crap you want (abs, calves).
Day 6: Bis (and in my case, light side and rear delts to bring them up)
-Alt Offset Curls (start in neutral, supinate as you go up forcefully, let elbows travel forward some, that’s
perfectly fine, bicep long head raises arm after all… Keep supinated on way down, then reset at the bottom… Tense up before reps, don’t curl from a straight or overextended arm! Curl from a slightly bent arm). 2x4-6+
-Pinwheel Curls (straps if for heavier bells…), 2x4-6+
-EZ Bar (not curl bar!) or HS machine curls, 1-2x4-6+ (or higher if you want)
Note: Don’t force your body into a stiff position on heavy curls. But don’t bend at the low back either, bend via knees and hip joints where appropriate. Make sure your arm flexors control the weight though, and preferably also start all of your reps but the last 2-3 (there you can use body english to initiate the lift, on the other reps it’s only added after the flexors get the bell moving).
And don’t round your shoulders.
-Reverse Pec Deck or Face Pulls, whatever. 2x8-12 or so
-Standing Laterals (in this case bells start at the sides from a dead stop each rep, don’t use much body english here, it’s light day) or Lateral Machine. 2x7-10 or 8-12.
That’s it… If you want to alter your routine to train less often, then you have several options… Pairing bis with back (no light bi day then), go with 2 heavy bi exercises, not three.
If pairing bis with delts, go with 3 I’d say.
Tris with chest or delts: Ditch the press, go with Lying EZ (or dead stop, again bar comes down behind head) extensions and lying DB extensions of the same style, and maybe add power-pushdowns or Harris extensions or so, but in general, less is more when pairing things up.
You’ll generally have a chest, back, delt and leg day (in various orders, though I suggest not doing back the day before chest… Messes with your setup on chest work, need a fresh back then). Could put delts and back together though, in that case, do overhead and lateral work before back, then rear delt work after back.
For alternative exercises to put in on occasion, just ask…
For those wondering about why I’m advocating 2 work sets here for all main exercises instead of the usual ramping up to 1: Mostly just because frequency is fairly low and reps are low (max ot is almost always 4-6, but I changed that here because 4-6 on chest work = more delts and tris than anything, and chance of injury too high… Using it on back work = too much arms, too little back usually).
Anyway, for guys who have everything down pat, 1 set works fine, though ultimately it doesn’t seem to matter all that much imo… Start with 2. Increase weight whenever a) You hit the top of your rep range on both sets
b) You feel confident that you can (even if the second set is 2 reps below upper end of the range or so).
Don’t up the weight if your sets looked atrocious last time and you had little control over the weight. Keep technique and setup good.
If you get to the upper end of the range or past it on your first set, you can add a little weight for the second set, in fact, that’s what I’d do.
Warm-ups again: Thorough on the first exercise for a particular movement pattern (press for chest, for example), and only 1-2 ramped warm-ups (low-ish reps, 2-6 or so) on sub-sequent exercises for the same movement pattern.
For tris, that means thorough on the press AND fairly thorough on the first extension, because now your long head is in play which wasn’t doing much during those presses and can tear if you fuck things up.
I.e.
Example Tricep day:
-Close, semi-neutral (elbows flared a little bit though) DB presses, Shoulder blades pinched and pulled down, touch bells fairly high, forearms can be angled a bit towards the head at the bottom, that’s fine, just wear neoprene sleeves if necessary and don’t make it a JM press! :
30Kg DB’s * 12
30-60 sec rest
45Kg DB’s * 8
60 sec rest
60Kg DB’s * 5-6
90 sec rest (don’t take those seconds too literally, that’s just an estimate and some people want more or less rest between warm-ups)
80Kg DB’s * 3-4
90 sec rest
90Kg if you want, I do that just to be on the safe side, too much of a jump otherwise * 1-2
2.5-3 min rest
Work set 1: 95Kg DB’s * 7
3 min rest, as it’s a DB exercise and rather heavy
Work set 2 95Kg DB’s * 6
(everybody has their own preference of when they go up in weight… In my case, if I hit 8 reps or more in full control of the weight on the first set on those presses, I go heavier on the second set, otherwise I play it safe)
These mean more stabilization and more difficult setup than Bar CGP, but being able to use less weight is kind of nice… If you only do DB work on chest day though (no good machines around, flat bench = shitty pec builder) for example, then bar CGP here on tri day works well… Also if you want to powerlift eventually, that way you always have a really heavy press in there somewhere.
Need someone to help in both cases though even when stopping just shy of failure… For handing the heavier bells on the DB presses (I have DB hooks or whatever you call them on my power rack at home, fortunately, and I drop the bells or sit up with them after the exercise… Nice thing is, I don’t have to fall back onto bench with them at the beginning, I can just set up and take them off the hooks).
For those without training partners etc, try In-Human Presses instead (in smith, Pl setup, push towards feet as well as up… In slanted smith, bar should actually travel towards feet while going up… Grip as wide as necessary, elbows tucked as we’re going heavier here than normal, i.e. as low as 4-6 for many).
-EZ Extensions (pullover+extension) lying, bar comes down behind head (can have head hanging slightly off edge of the bench, or not, your call, but keep shoulder blades in the right position and shoulder joints from rising towards ears… That is, your upper arms will do a pullover motion of course and your forearms the extension part, but the midpoint of your shoulder joints should stay in place imo). These are best done with an EZ bar, not a curl bar, but curl bar works too. Don’t like straight bar here though, but some people use it…
Definitely wear neoprene sleeves.
37.5Kg * 12 (curl bar + 2 15Kg plates)
half a minute up to a minute of rest
57.5Kg * 6
45-60 sec rest
67.5Kg * 3-5
60 sec rest or so
77.5Kg * 2-3
60-90 sec rest
82.5Kg * 1
2-3 min rest
Work set 1: 90Kg * 8 good reps
3 min rest tops
Work set 2: 92.5Kg * 6
Then (again 2-3 min rest)
-DB lying extensions, same motion as EZ ext. above (i.e. semi-tricep pullover added, not just elbow extension)
Wear neoprene sleeves still
32.5Kg DB’s * 5-6
2.5-3 min rest
42.5 Kg DB’s * 8 (tris tired by now)
40 Kg DB’s * 6 (last 2 ugly, only 2 min rest, should have done 3 perhaps)
And then some 1-2 calf exercises (not for me, mine grow from driving the car lol) and some Ab Wheel rollouts.
This is fairly standard bodybuilding stuff, simple and short sessions, works really well if you eat enough, get in enough protein, keep technique and setup good and make sure you’re progressing.
Go low rep on those exercises where your technique and setup are perfect and where you know it doesn’t shift emphasis away from the muscle you’re trying to work (i.e. on rows, low reps to failure will suck for most).
[/quote]
Excellent Program C_C!!
FWIW if the 6-way split is too much for some here (maybe your grip is shot after back day or it’s too much db work or whatever for you), or you’d like to organize it differently (deadlifts on back day for example, then space back and legs out more or whatever), that’s not a problem…
Just keep in mind that for weaker guys, it’s mostly diet (protein intake and overall cals) and sleep that are the reasons for lacking recovery…
I’m not usually one to change my routine up much (though I’ve done a lot of/way too much experimenting this last year), but with the weights I’m using I’ve noticed that with 2 work sets per exercise and reps often falling between 5 and 7, I’m not quite “ready to go all out” every time I step into the gym…
Plus I’m trying to stay at ~265-270 and simply leaning out a bit, which means I’m recovering less well than while gaining weight actively…
So I’ve decided to alter my split a bit to include more off-days… Means longer sessions in some cases, but yeah.
Not entirely decided yet on what exactly it’s going to look like, but I think I may do something like this:
Day 1 - Chest+Tris (I kind of hate this, but yeah. Probably going to make close-grips the first exercise of the day and just do some low volume strength work or a simple ramp in triples to MFS there, occasionally maxing out, then follow up with HS work for chest, then EZ pullover+extensions etc).
-CGP
-HS Incline or DB Presses
-HS Flat or so
-EZ PJR’s
-DB or Scott or Harris Extensions
Day 2 - off… Don’t want tight tris on back day
Day 3 - Back
-Sumo Deadlifts (wanted to be fresh when doing those)
-HS Pulldown Machine or Front Pulldown or HS High rows (mind scapular motion)
-Cable Rows (scap retraction!) or HS low rows
-V-Handle Cable Rows or some such
Day 4 - off
Day 5 - Delts (could do bis here, or else on leg day, not sure yet. Might need more than one day after back to recover my grip strength, which is kind of crucial for bicep training… A strong/recovered grip = makes me feel more in the zone/ allows me to go more explosive on the positive etc…)
-Seated DB SHP or HS Overhead machine
-HS Lateral Machine
-Seated Rope Face Pulls with external rotation, a bit like a clean or something like that… Can use a bit of body-english by bending at the hip joints… You grip the long rope attachment’s ends so that your thumbs and index finger are facing the “knobs” at the rope’s ends though, bit strange at first. Don’t let the wrists go limp…
-Maybe rev. Pec Deck or Bent Laterals or Wolfe face Pulls in the lat pulldown with a wide neutral grip.
Come to think of it, it might be better to do the rear delt work on leg day if I want to do front squats there (then bis on delt day)… Else it’ll have to be hack machine instead.
Legs(+bis?)
-Alt. Offset Curls
-Pinwheels
-EZ Bar (proper ez bar, not curl bar) curls or so…
-Front Squats (maybe hack squat widow then) or Hack Squat Machine or so…
-seated Cable semi-SLDL’s (others who don’t do widowmakers may want to do leg press here, then ham work after). Those work really well for me for some reason, far better than standing SLDL… May be the angled pad or so…
-Calves I guess, if I can be bothered. Others may want to do them on chest day or so…
Day 7 - off
Still not sure about the details, but that’s what I have in mind so far.
Strength gains on 6-way were nice btw… I’ll do it again with some slight changes if I ever decide to start gaining bodyweight again.
[quote]bonerjams98 wrote:
I tried out JM presses the other day on the vert chest press and just wondering what seat position you recommend? I saw a youtube video of shelby starnes doing them with the seat up high enough that the handles were a few inches below nipple. I’ve also seen a couple videos of people doing them with the handles neck high. Any preference?
[/quote]
JM press usually implies that it’s a mix between skullcrusher and press… So you’d have the handles high (not necessarily neck high, maybe upper chest, depends)… But really, do whatever feels best on the elbows.
Def. wear neoprene sleeves and warm up well.
cc, do you pms now or is still turned off?
C_C, I know you’re big on the Inhuman CGP. I was wondering what your thoughts on doing it from sort of a dead stop are.
I’m currently doing BBB, and in my current gym situation, there are no floating benches (they’re all bolted down), and so I’ve been improvising; I put a sturdy blue wooden platform that’s at about the same height as a bench would be into the smith and do my Inhumans that way. Set up is still the same with scapula and ass hanging off. The only problem is that it’s so wide that it forces the ROM to stop at the same level as my torso, i.e when the back of the arm makes contact with the platform I’m lying on. Depending on the grip width I choose, there can be a decent amount of space left between my hands and sternum.
Obviously, because there’s stretch reflex I havn’t been able to go as heavy as without a stop, but I was just interested in your thoughts on this change to the Inhuman. Regardless, I’ve been able to be progressive on them which is the important thing.
CC, any experience with shoulder issues? I recently screwed mine up during a floor press and it’s still hurting a week later. I couldn’t do skull crushers today without pain, I did close grip DB bench though which wasn’t terrible but definitely didn’t feel normal…there was some discomfort. Any experience with this or recommendations?
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
FWIW if the 6-way split is too much for some here (maybe your grip is shot after back day or it’s too much db work or whatever for you), or you’d like to organize it differently (deadlifts on back day for example, then space back and legs out more or whatever), that’s not a problem…
Just keep in mind that for weaker guys, it’s mostly diet (protein intake and overall cals) and sleep that are the reasons for lacking recovery…
I’m not usually one to change my routine up much (though I’ve done a lot of/way too much experimenting this last year), but with the weights I’m using I’ve noticed that with 2 work sets per exercise and reps often falling between 5 and 7, I’m not quite “ready to go all out” every time I step into the gym…
Plus I’m trying to stay at ~265-270 and simply leaning out a bit, which means I’m recovering less well than while gaining weight actively…
So I’ve decided to alter my split a bit to include more off-days… Means longer sessions in some cases, but yeah.
Not entirely decided yet on what exactly it’s going to look like, but I think I may do something like this:
Day 1 - Chest+Tris (I kind of hate this, but yeah. Probably going to make close-grips the first exercise of the day and just do some low volume strength work or a simple ramp in triples to MFS there, occasionally maxing out, then follow up with HS work for chest, then EZ pullover+extensions etc).
-CGP
-HS Incline or DB Presses
-HS Flat or so
-EZ PJR’s
-DB or Scott or Harris Extensions
Day 2 - off… Don’t want tight tris on back day
Day 3 - Back
-Sumo Deadlifts (wanted to be fresh when doing those)
-HS Pulldown Machine or Front Pulldown or HS High rows (mind scapular motion)
-Cable Rows (scap retraction!) or HS low rows
-V-Handle Cable Rows or some such
Day 4 - off
Day 5 - Delts (could do bis here, or else on leg day, not sure yet. Might need more than one day after back to recover my grip strength, which is kind of crucial for bicep training… A strong/recovered grip = makes me feel more in the zone/ allows me to go more explosive on the positive etc…)
-Seated DB SHP or HS Overhead machine
-HS Lateral Machine
-Seated Rope Face Pulls with external rotation, a bit like a clean or something like that… Can use a bit of body-english by bending at the hip joints… You grip the long rope attachment’s ends so that your thumbs and index finger are facing the “knobs” at the rope’s ends though, bit strange at first. Don’t let the wrists go limp…
-Maybe rev. Pec Deck or Bent Laterals or Wolfe face Pulls in the lat pulldown with a wide neutral grip.
Come to think of it, it might be better to do the rear delt work on leg day if I want to do front squats there (then bis on delt day)… Else it’ll have to be hack machine instead.
Legs(+bis?)
-Alt. Offset Curls
-Pinwheels
-EZ Bar (proper ez bar, not curl bar) curls or so…
-Front Squats (maybe hack squat widow then) or Hack Squat Machine or so…
-seated Cable semi-SLDL’s (others who don’t do widowmakers may want to do leg press here, then ham work after). Those work really well for me for some reason, far better than standing SLDL… May be the angled pad or so…
-Calves I guess, if I can be bothered. Others may want to do them on chest day or so…
Day 7 - off
Still not sure about the details, but that’s what I have in mind so far.
Strength gains on 6-way were nice btw… I’ll do it again with some slight changes if I ever decide to start gaining bodyweight again.
[/quote]
This may be a stupid question, but why don;t you want to do back work with tight triceps? Greater chance of tearing the triceps? The reason I;m asking is because I do chest and triceps the day before upper back width and thickness.
Thanks for your time.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
CC, any experience with shoulder issues? I recently screwed mine up during a floor press and it’s still hurting a week later. I couldn’t do skull crushers today without pain, I did close grip DB bench though which wasn’t terrible but definitely didn’t feel normal…there was some discomfort. Any experience with this or recommendations? [/quote]
thats strange, I have messed up shoulders and floor press is normally the safest exercise for me because of the shortened ROM. how did you injure it? what sort of pain are you feeling and where abouts in the movement are you feeling it?
[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
CC, any experience with shoulder issues? I recently screwed mine up during a floor press and it’s still hurting a week later. I couldn’t do skull crushers today without pain, I did close grip DB bench though which wasn’t terrible but definitely didn’t feel normal…there was some discomfort. Any experience with this or recommendations? [/quote]
thats strange, I have messed up shoulders and floor press is normally the safest exercise for me because of the shortened ROM. how did you injure it? what sort of pain are you feeling and where abouts in the movement are you feeling it?[/quote]
I overextended (protracted) my shoulder to get the bar off the pins…really stupid but I had done it fine in the previous weeks with no issues at all. Now even warming up with skull crushers hurt and as mentioned it’s been a week. The pain is right around the anterior and medial delt (right side) and some other movements that I can feel slight discomfort include most abduction type movements like pushing something away by moving my arm out (like a lateral raise motion, although that exercise itself doesn’t seem too bad)
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
CC, any experience with shoulder issues? I recently screwed mine up during a floor press and it’s still hurting a week later. I couldn’t do skull crushers today without pain, I did close grip DB bench though which wasn’t terrible but definitely didn’t feel normal…there was some discomfort. Any experience with this or recommendations? [/quote]
thats strange, I have messed up shoulders and floor press is normally the safest exercise for me because of the shortened ROM. how did you injure it? what sort of pain are you feeling and where abouts in the movement are you feeling it?[/quote]
I overextended (protracted) my shoulder to get the bar off the pins…really stupid but I had done it fine in the previous weeks with no issues at all. Now even warming up with skull crushers hurt and as mentioned it’s been a week. The pain is right around the anterior and medial delt (right side) and some other movements that I can feel slight discomfort include most abduction type movements like pushing something away by moving my arm out (like a lateral raise motion, although that exercise itself doesn’t seem too bad)[/quote]
damn…sounds like just a strain. yeah I always get a lift off so I can set up before the floor press. keep up the soft tissue work on your rear shoulder and take it easy for a week. good luck!!
OMGZ you guys are still asking this fat german guy for advice? Wtf…
I <3 CC!
CC
I would love it if you could look in my hub and watch my attempt at 605 on DL. I know I didn’t get it and I am wondering if you think I should try and switch to sumo. I have always preferred conventional but I am not sure after watching the video as I feel I may be compromising my back.