I’m currently attempting a cut and hope to go from 211 down to 190 without losing too much lean muscle mass. I think you mentioned in earlier post that the best way to test whether one is losing muscle is by strength. In following Stu’s thread, he described losing about 2 lbs per week is about right for a normal cut. I’ve started the cut 2 wks ago and have only lost 2 lbs so far, but feel my strength is not where it was. For example, on my 5 rep max for bench, I could only do 3 reps today. Any suggestions?
How lean are you? If you’re sitting in the high teens in terms of bodyfat and are already losing strength, then something is wrong (give it another week though, as lack of sleep, time of day / neural activation etc can all fuck with your strength to a degree). If you’re lean already, then this is to be expected, especially for drug-free guys.
Your routine may also be too much during a diet… Or your diet is simply not as good as it could be.
Keep your protein intake high at at least 1.5 grams per lb/bodyweight, I’d go with 1.8 up to 2 especially on routines like DC, Max-OT, etc…
Note: Receiving pm’s from people but can’t reply it seems. Sorry…
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
How lean are you? If you’re sitting in the high teens in terms of bodyfat and are already losing strength, then something is wrong (give it another week though, as lack of sleep, time of day / neural activation etc can all fuck with your strength to a degree). If you’re lean already, then this is to be expected, especially for drug-free guys.
Your routine may also be too much during a diet… Or your diet is simply not as good as it could be.
Keep your protein intake high at at least 1.5 grams per lb/bodyweight, I’d go with 1.8 up to 2 especially on routines like DC, Max-OT, etc…
Note: Receiving pm’s from people but can’t reply it seems. Sorry…
[/quote]
Thanks CC,
I don’t know what my bodyfat % is, but abs are a little blurry. Currently, I’m doing 5/3/1 to try and keep strength while the accessories are ramped in the 5-8 rep range. I do two workouts a day 3 days a week. Single workout 2 days a week and rest on the other 2 days. This is how I’ve been working out for the past year and have made good gains until now 2 wks into my cut. As for diet, I cut down 500 calories from my daily maintenance and cycling carbs with 2 high days, 2 med days and 3 low days ranging from 50 gm to 200 gm. After the first week and noticing no change in weight, I started doing steady state fasted cardio 1st thing in the morning for 20 min. Workouts don’t start til hours later. After 1 wk of cardio and keeping the planned diet, I finally noticed I lost 2 lbs. The strength lost seemed to start once the cardio began. Do you think this could be the reason? The scale wasn’t moving when I didn’t do the cardio. Should I cut back another 500 calories and stop the cardio? Thanks
Btw, a question about protein. Does the absorption rate of the protein change how much one should take daily? Should there be a difference in how much protein to take for someone using micellar casein (slow absorption) as opposed to peptopro (fast absorption)? Thanks.
Hey CC ive read your previous posts about CGBP off pins for tris. I no longer have access to a power rack and was wondering if floor presses can serve the same purpose. would you recommend a pause at the bottom of the movement or just a touch and go. Thanks for all your contributions to the site. your a great dude.
Hey CC, long time reader, first time poster. I was listening to The Fitcast this morning, and they were talking about a seminar that happened recently, and one of the presenters (at the seminar), Brijesh Patel, was apparently talking about scapular stability, and was talking about doing one arm rows and letting the whole shoulder girdle drop, and then retracting the scapula on the concentric.
Now this is second hand, Kevin, the host, was talking about Brijesh’s seminar, but it seems that they must have been stalking your T-Nation posts, because I could have sworn that’s what you have been talking about for the last, I don’t know, forever.
Forgot to ask, you mentioned earlier that my routine might be too much for my diet. How should one be training while dieting when compared to how he normally trains while bulking? Many coaches have said to keep lifting heavy, but should the frequency be dialed back?
Here is C_C’s Underground, Most Guarded Triceps Routine, attemp at your own risk!
Pre Activation Kickback Palette Clusters - WORK UP TO THE DARKEST PINK
(when girls start to complain about the BIG dOOde who is annihilating their Dumbbels, MAX PINK POINT (MPP) IS REACHED, STOP THE SET)
PAIN THRESHOLD ACTIVATION - Laying Triceps Extensions with Elbows 45 Degrees away from the body
Work up to 2 RM, do singles with 194 seconds rest till the PAIN IN the elbows appears. STOP THE SET WHEN PAIN THRESHOLD POINT (PTP) is reached
PAIN POTENTATION Rope PRessdowns SS Dummbell Triceps EXTENSIONS - determine your 5 RM and DO 2 REPS for 20 SETS. REST AS MUCH AS NEEDED.
PAIN DENSITY LOADING - PDS - Perform all of the exercises above as a sequence and remove each and one of them as the pain gets to the point where it feels like your olecraron is going to snap the heck out of the elbow!
Thanks for responding and as directed I have reposted this here in your thread.
CC, firstly, thanks for all the info/advice in all the threads you participate in. Especially the DC thread. I love the DC program but I just can’t make it work any longer. Forced to do it during my lunch hour and it takes longer than I am allowed (been going over anyway) and I have been advised to fix that (oops). I am thinking of a 4 day split and wanted some suggestions of what you have used in the past. Thinking of doing a M,T,W,F w/ the w/e off. I have never done a 4 way split, always a 3 day or a 5 day so i am just curious as to exercise selection, pairings and setup.
I have about 50 minutes of actual lifting time with a partner and we move fairly quick between sets. I think that 1 or 2 exercises per major group would suffice along with a finisher or a isolation for certain body parts. I have put a few things together but I have a bad habit of doing too much and over complicating things. One of the reasons why DC was/is so attractive.
Any insight or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Got a pm, can’t respond via message so I have to do it here:
If you want something fairly simple to stick with, and you’re not sure which direction you want to go (PL or BB), other than 5/3/1 there would be Max-OT… Now that is a bit too rigid for my tastes, esp. in the rep-range (too low for some exercises), so mix that a bit with some more yates-type stuff and you have yourself a “low volume” routine with short sessions which works really well for both size and strength.
I’ve posted 5/3/1 routines before, so I’ll post the max-ot/yates hybrid instead. If you want, you can simply do 5/3/1 (10% table, not 5%) on 3-4 main lifts instead of the set/rep combo I outline below, but you really don’t have to.
A word of warning: Do your research on proper setup and execution on all exercises and listen to your body.
Also, at 18, you may have a difficult time getting bigger… It’s easiest in your 20’s imo… You may have to eat a very large amount.
Generally, with routines like this: Keep protein at 1.8 to 2 grams per lb of bodyweight (at your size, you can probably get away with only 1.5, but the more you have while also getting in enough fats and carbs as needed, the faster you’ll recover and get strong, less plateaus…), eat like someone 20-30 lbs heavier than you (adjust upwards if you have a very active lifestyle and/or fast metabolism), and do cardio if necessary (at your weight, doesn’t matter too much if it’s HIIT style stuff or fasted steady state, low int… Just DON’T OVERDO IT!).
Note: Max OT guys alter their routines a bit every 4 weeks or so… Now, that doesn’t mean big changes, keep most of your exercises (esp. main ones) the same, but perhaps restructure things a little or so.
I’d do it every 6 weeks tops, but that’s just me.
Also, take a week off (or only do light, high rep work non-failure) every 6 weeks to keep from burning out, but since we use more moderate rep ranges here than in actual max-ot, you won’t have to necessarily stop training completely during those weeks…
6-day, very short sessions (note: Rest between work sets: 2-3 minutes. 3 are better for DB exercises and big exercises imo). Warm-ups: Ramped, with reps decreasing.
Rep style: Explosive or at least fast positives (try), controlled negatives (don’t let the weights drop like stones and bounce out of the bottom)
Day 1 - Chest (light tris)
-Flat or Incline DB, BB, Machine… Pinch shoulder blades together and pull them down! No need to lock out. If doing BB here, make sure you do it with powerlifting setup. 2x5-8
-Whatever angle you didn’t do above, or decline: DB, BB (not on flat though), Machine, 2x5-8 or higher reps if you like, such as 7-10 or more
(could do pec deck or hybrid fly presses here, but I’d leave those out at first, higher reps for pec deck, 1-2 sets)
-Rope Extensions ala Justin Harris, watch him on youtube… 2x7-10+ or so, or one-arm reverse pushdowns… Pinch shoulder blades in either case… Can use some pullover motion, but not without the right shoulder blade setup (otherwise too much lat, not enough tricep), or keep elbows fairly steady (more lateral+medial head), your call. Could do the one-arm reverse (note: lean to the side as far as necessary to make it comfortable on your wrists depending on the side angle between your upper arm bone and forearm) as a second exercise for a set of high reps, ala 10-15 or so, too.
Day 2 - Back (light bis)
-Seated Pulley rows, wide or medium D handles or so, or Hammerstrength low rows, or T-bars with a medium or wide grip…, Make sure you retract your shoulder blades as main part of each positive and let them come out of retraction on the negative. This is also not about getting the elbows as far back as possible, but the shoulders. 2x6-10+, going too close to your max is going to turn those into an arm exercise…
Remember, pull with the muscles acting on your shoulder blades, not the arms or even lats (at least not much).
-Pullups (not wide grip, not close either) or HS Pulldown, HS high row, or whatever… 2x7-10+
-V-Handle Rows or some such, bit more of a width thing again, 1-2x7-10+.
-Standing (one arm holding onto something) and leaning one-arm offset curls… Thumb at plate. Start in hammer position, curl up forcefully while supinating your wrist, then keep it supinated on the way down, only put it back into neutral position at the bottom. Slow the negatives down some, a 4-count in the head or so…
2x7-10+
Day 3 - Delts (no traps here as yesterday was back day and tomorrow you’ll be doing deads or sumo deads).
-Seated High Incline (seat one or two notches below vertical) Presses, DB, BB, Machine, whatever. 2x5-10 or 6-9 or so.
-Bent-Over laterals, can be done from a dead stop (use sumo DL stance if conv. DL stance bothers your back/flexibility… Depending on arm vs leg length, you may want to set the 'bells down on some stacked plastic mats or something like that). 2x4-8
-Laterals, DB or machine (machine being better if you have a good one) 2x5-8 or so. Standing: can rest them at the side (dead stop between reps), tense up before each positive, mind shoulder blades… Or DB’s in front and slightly bent at the hip joints, turn them into more of an upright row hybrid with elbows bent more etc.
Go with what’s comfortable on the shoulders. Don’t raise the bells higher than feels good.
-Rope face pulls (long rope) in the seated row station or so… Add an external rotation to the positive of each rep, as shown in CT’s recent vids… Or do regular face pulls (to the upper chest or so) in the lat-pulldown with a lat bar or wide-neutral bar, lean back sufficiently (throughout the whole rep, no coming forward!).
Day 4 - Legs, traps if you want., abs
-Sumo Deadlift (or conventional if you’re built for it, but I have a feeling that most on this forum are better off learning how to make sumo work for them… Judging by how every other poster here has a messed up disk or something)… You don’t necessarily need to go super wide in stance, can go fairly mid-stance-ish…
2x4-6, but don’t force failure… Double-overhand imo, don’t go too close in the grip either… Whatever is comfortable. Wear shorts that don’t restrict your movement and aren’t too tight around the stomach! That can make an amazing amount of a difference in your flexibility etc.
After each lockout, pinch shoulder blades together (though not down), chest out (but don’t overarch your spine, keep abs tight!), then let shoulders come back into normal position and put the bar back down.
Dead Stop between each rep, re-set if necessary between reps.
-Front Or Back Squats (back squat only if it doesn’t bother the shoulders etc), or Hack Machine or Leg Press… 1-2 x 4-6 (or 8), then one widowmaker set ala DC (16-20+, with short breaks where necessary).
If you skip the widowmaker, add a second quad exercise, otherwise don’t bother.
Note: You can do either quads or hams first, your call, and depending on what needs to be brought up more. I’d go with hams in most cases though… And do this with proper technique and setup. No fucked up lower backs, or else.
Train calves on other days perhaps… Chest day, Tricep day… 2-3x6-10… Or DC-style 1x10-12 with special protocol (read up on it).
-DB, BB, Machine Shrugs (if you want), 1 set of 8-15… Don’t do too much here, tomorrow you’ll need a tight setup for tris.
-Can add reverse hyper machine or GH raises or Cable SLDL or some such here for hams. 1-2 sets, higher reps.
-Ab Wheel Rollouts (could also be done on tricep day instead).
Day 5: Triceps and whatever you want (abs and/or calves if you like to do them here instead of leg day)
-Press variant (Close-grip Pl setup, elbows tucked on the way down and in the hole, then you can flare them on the way up if you want. Grip as wide as necessary for full tuck and no wrist discomfort… Or do close neutral grip DB presses, elbows just slightly flared maybe, keep bells close to body, touch high).
Tight setup! 2x4-6 up to 8+ if you can.
-EZ Extensions, lying, bar comes down behind head (pullover+extension, but you don’t need to go crazy far down… Pinch shoulder blades together and keep shoulder joints from rising towards your ears!.. Positive ends with upper arms at an incline, not perpendicular to the floor). Your main long-head exercise. 2x6-8+ or so. Don’t bounce out of the bottom.
-Lying DB Extensions, bells come down behind head, Same as EZ Extensions really… Most have shitty long heads and you train medial and lateral heads with all the pressing already. 2x6-8+
And then whatever other crap you want (abs, calves).
Day 6: Bis (and in my case, light side and rear delts to bring them up)
-Alt Offset Curls (start in neutral, supinate as you go up forcefully, let elbows travel forward some, that’s
perfectly fine, bicep long head raises arm after all… Keep supinated on way down, then reset at the bottom… Tense up before reps, don’t curl from a straight or overextended arm! Curl from a slightly bent arm). 2x4-6+
-Pinwheel Curls (straps if for heavier bells…), 2x4-6+
-EZ Bar (not curl bar!) or HS machine curls, 1-2x4-6+ (or higher if you want)
Note: Don’t force your body into a stiff position on heavy curls. But don’t bend at the low back either, bend via knees and hip joints where appropriate. Make sure your arm flexors control the weight though, and preferably also start all of your reps but the last 2-3 (there you can use body english to initiate the lift, on the other reps it’s only added after the flexors get the bell moving).
And don’t round your shoulders.
-Reverse Pec Deck or Face Pulls, whatever. 2x8-12 or so
-Standing Laterals (in this case bells start at the sides from a dead stop each rep, don’t use much body english here, it’s light day) or Lateral Machine. 2x7-10 or 8-12.
That’s it… If you want to alter your routine to train less often, then you have several options… Pairing bis with back (no light bi day then), go with 2 heavy bi exercises, not three.
If pairing bis with delts, go with 3 I’d say.
Tris with chest or delts: Ditch the press, go with Lying EZ (or dead stop, again bar comes down behind head) extensions and lying DB extensions of the same style, and maybe add power-pushdowns or Harris extensions or so, but in general, less is more when pairing things up.
You’ll generally have a chest, back, delt and leg day (in various orders, though I suggest not doing back the day before chest… Messes with your setup on chest work, need a fresh back then). Could put delts and back together though, in that case, do overhead and lateral work before back, then rear delt work after back.
For alternative exercises to put in on occasion, just ask…
For those wondering about why I’m advocating 2 work sets here for all main exercises instead of the usual ramping up to 1: Mostly just because frequency is fairly low and reps are low (max ot is almost always 4-6, but I changed that here because 4-6 on chest work = more delts and tris than anything, and chance of injury too high… Using it on back work = too much arms, too little back usually).
Anyway, for guys who have everything down pat, 1 set works fine, though ultimately it doesn’t seem to matter all that much imo… Start with 2. Increase weight whenever a) You hit the top of your rep range on both sets
b) You feel confident that you can (even if the second set is 2 reps below upper end of the range or so).
Don’t up the weight if your sets looked atrocious last time and you had little control over the weight. Keep technique and setup good.
If you get to the upper end of the range or past it on your first set, you can add a little weight for the second set, in fact, that’s what I’d do.
Warm-ups again: Thorough on the first exercise for a particular movement pattern (press for chest, for example), and only 1-2 ramped warm-ups (low-ish reps, 2-6 or so) on sub-sequent exercises for the same movement pattern.
For tris, that means thorough on the press AND fairly thorough on the first extension, because now your long head is in play which wasn’t doing much during those presses and can tear if you fuck things up.
I.e.
Example Tricep day:
-Close, semi-neutral (elbows flared a little bit though) DB presses, Shoulder blades pinched and pulled down, touch bells fairly high, forearms can be angled a bit towards the head at the bottom, that’s fine, just wear neoprene sleeves if necessary and don’t make it a JM press! :
30Kg DB’s * 12
30-60 sec rest
45Kg DB’s * 8
60 sec rest
60Kg DB’s * 5-6
90 sec rest (don’t take those seconds too literally, that’s just an estimate and some people want more or less rest between warm-ups)
80Kg DB’s * 3-4
90 sec rest
90Kg if you want, I do that just to be on the safe side, too much of a jump otherwise * 1-2
2.5-3 min rest
Work set 1: 95Kg DB’s * 7
3 min rest, as it’s a DB exercise and rather heavy
Work set 2 95Kg DB’s * 6
(everybody has their own preference of when they go up in weight… In my case, if I hit 8 reps or more in full control of the weight on the first set on those presses, I go heavier on the second set, otherwise I play it safe)
These mean more stabilization and more difficult setup than Bar CGP, but being able to use less weight is kind of nice… If you only do DB work on chest day though (no good machines around, flat bench = shitty pec builder) for example, then bar CGP here on tri day works well… Also if you want to powerlift eventually, that way you always have a really heavy press in there somewhere.
Need someone to help in both cases though even when stopping just shy of failure… For handing the heavier bells on the DB presses (I have DB hooks or whatever you call them on my power rack at home, fortunately, and I drop the bells or sit up with them after the exercise… Nice thing is, I don’t have to fall back onto bench with them at the beginning, I can just set up and take them off the hooks).
For those without training partners etc, try In-Human Presses instead (in smith, Pl setup, push towards feet as well as up… In slanted smith, bar should actually travel towards feet while going up… Grip as wide as necessary, elbows tucked as we’re going heavier here than normal, i.e. as low as 4-6 for many).
-EZ Extensions (pullover+extension) lying, bar comes down behind head (can have head hanging slightly off edge of the bench, or not, your call, but keep shoulder blades in the right position and shoulder joints from rising towards ears… That is, your upper arms will do a pullover motion of course and your forearms the extension part, but the midpoint of your shoulder joints should stay in place imo). These are best done with an EZ bar, not a curl bar, but curl bar works too. Don’t like straight bar here though, but some people use it…
Definitely wear neoprene sleeves.
37.5Kg * 12 (curl bar + 2 15Kg plates)
half a minute up to a minute of rest
57.5Kg * 6
45-60 sec rest
67.5Kg * 3-5
60 sec rest or so
77.5Kg * 2-3
60-90 sec rest
82.5Kg * 1
2-3 min rest
Work set 1: 90Kg * 8 good reps
3 min rest tops
Work set 2: 92.5Kg * 6
Then (again 2-3 min rest)
-DB lying extensions, same motion as EZ ext. above (i.e. semi-tricep pullover added, not just elbow extension)
Wear neoprene sleeves still
32.5Kg DB’s * 5-6
2.5-3 min rest
42.5 Kg DB’s * 8 (tris tired by now)
40 Kg DB’s * 6 (last 2 ugly, only 2 min rest, should have done 3 perhaps)
And then some 1-2 calf exercises (not for me, mine grow from driving the car lol) and some Ab Wheel rollouts.
This is fairly standard bodybuilding stuff, simple and short sessions, works really well if you eat enough, get in enough protein, keep technique and setup good and make sure you’re progressing.
Go low rep on those exercises where your technique and setup are perfect and where you know it doesn’t shift emphasis away from the muscle you’re trying to work (i.e. on rows, low reps to failure will suck for most).
[quote]Mateus wrote:
Thanks for responding and as directed I have reposted this here in your thread.
CC, firstly, thanks for all the info/advice in all the threads you participate in. Especially the DC thread. I love the DC program but I just can’t make it work any longer. Forced to do it during my lunch hour and it takes longer than I am allowed (been going over anyway) and I have been advised to fix that (oops). I am thinking of a 4 day split and wanted some suggestions of what you have used in the past. Thinking of doing a M,T,W,F w/ the w/e off. I have never done a 4 way split, always a 3 day or a 5 day so i am just curious as to exercise selection, pairings and setup.
I have about 50 minutes of actual lifting time with a partner and we move fairly quick between sets. I think that 1 or 2 exercises per major group would suffice along with a finisher or a isolation for certain body parts. I have put a few things together but I have a bad habit of doing too much and over complicating things. One of the reasons why DC was/is so attractive.
Any insight or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
[/quote]
Hope that my post in response to that other pm gets through, look at that one for inspiration.
If you have 6 days (=shortest sessions), you can use my routine and exercise selection (calves/abs can be done between sets of other exercises if you want, esp. on arm muscle days and chest day etc) and then go from there (change rep ranges to your preference, but do keep them heavy if you want to progress…
My bis, esp. on alt. curls and such, go better with low reps, but some people’s progress easier in the 8-12 range or so…
And if people are on gear, then of course they can potentially get the same weight-on-bar increases from 10-12 that I get from 4-6 or 5-8, so keep all that in mind and change things depending on your situation…
Just keep the general spirit: Fairly low volume per session, fairly heavy, loose form but technique must be spot on and setup too (the loose form mostly on “isolation” work where you go heavy), pick a weak spot to train twice (in my case rear and side delts are not a weak point per se, but they’re nowhere good enough so I train them again on bicep day with higher reps than on delt day). My leg day is a bit DC-ish, if you want a more standard leg day, go with 2 exercises each for quads and hams and no widowmaker.
And as written in the other post, for less training days, combine bis and/or tris with one of the major parts respectively and go with 2 exercises for them instead of 3 (still maybe 3 for tris, depends).
Note: I don’t do the “light bis/tris” on chest and back day, that’s for the guys on here whose arms suck.
But with the heavy max-ot’ish arm sessions, that may not even be necessary.
(on another note: the routine I posted is kind of higher in volume actually than regular bb as you have 2 top sets per exercise instead of one… Yet it’s called “low volume” and regular BB is called “high volume” by most. Funny, no?)
The tricep day above was meant to illustrate how to warm up, btw. Now, for weaker guys, you don’t necessarily need quite as many warm-up sets on the thorough-warm-up-exercises, 1-2 less are fine, depends on the weight and how you feel…
Basically though, the DB presses are first exercise for the tris that day, so thorough warm-up (but must not exhaust your tris! It’s just warming up/ramping up, getting into the zone…)
Then come the EZ (pullover)-extensions, which are a new movement pattern (not a press basically) and they also add the long head to the mix, so again thorough warm-up (or fairly thorough)
Then the DB extensions done the same way as the EZ’s, same movement pattern mostly and tris are already warm there, so no need for much warming up. 1 set for me to be on the safe side (I need at least 1 also because otherwise my work set performance seems to decrease, but doing too many warm-ups in that case would also cause too much fatigue).
For chest day, first press gets a thorough warm-up, and the second one less so (esp. if both are bar OR both DB presses… If it’s a mix, you can add another warm-up set or two if necessary just to be on the safe side).
If you do light tricep work on chest day, warm-up depends… Harris extensions, pushdowns etc get maybe 2 warm-ups (lateral and medial heads already warm), Scott extensions or some such (which I’d leave to tricep day) involving the long head more actively should get a thorough warm-up.
Got another pm just now, and as I mentioned before, I can’t respond to private messages directly… So here goes (quoting part of the message obviously, not the full one):
First off, I never ask for money, even the local guys who get a lot of “coaching” from me.
Don’t feel very comfortable doing such a thing and I don’t consider myself to be much of a teacher, and for dedicated e-coaching I’m simply lacking in time…
I work from a second computer in the house most of the time now and in-between I occasionally make a post here or watch some youtube vid or whatever on the other machine, but it’s not enough time for serious coaching.
Now as far as Internet coaching goes, even with constant video feedback it will never be nearly as good as having someone experienced help you face to face in your own gym.
Technique and setup are much easier to control when I can see you from a few meters away and demonstrate in person… And those two things are one of the most important aspects of this. Plus diet, and training “intensity”.
There are some great internet coaches around though… Iron Addict being one (takes it a little far with the hard-gainer talk I guess, but he seems to be a great coach)… Then you have SuperD who now handles DC training after Dante sort of retired from coaching (I think he still works with Dusty Hanshaw, not sure)… Unfortunately, I’m not sure if you can pay for those guys… You need money for food after all.
So imo video yourself as often as possible, from several angles, and if you can then in a muscleshirt or so where appropriate so we can see, for example, what your back is doing during backwidth exercises…
And post those vids in the brotherhood of iron thread along with your sessions and questions.
If something comes up (say, shoulder discomfort during DB presses), don’t ignore it… Act. Reassess your setup (shoulder blades pinched together and pulled down? Elbow position? etc) and so on, post questions here… And play it safe. Listen to your body.
You may want to pm me your current routine and lift numbers (or post them here in the thread if you don’t mind your identity being known) for starters… I’ll give you my comments on that. Plus your diet and what injuries you’ve sustained in the past and how they happened.
I can’t promise that I’ll have much time in the up-coming weeks, got lots of work-related stuff to finish.
So start posting in BOI, Bug, Josh, Austin etc are experienced enough to help you out with most issues and they have some idea of how I go about things.
[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:
Hey CC ive read your previous posts about CGBP off pins for tris. I no longer have access to a power rack and was wondering if floor presses can serve the same purpose. would you recommend a pause at the bottom of the movement or just a touch and go. Thanks for all your contributions to the site. your a great dude.
[/quote]
Thanks!
Last time I did floor-presses was years ago while training DC I think… Where are you “racking” the bar though? Aerobic steps? Careful it doesn’t roll off
If you have whatever you rack the bar on at your sides (so you rack close to the bottom position, instead of at the top of the lift), then you can do dead stops from there and retighten setup between reps, just like on the Pin CGP’s. You need to keep your upper back super tight though… Harder on floor presses where your back is fairly flat etc…
If you rack at the top instead of at the bottom, then dead stops won’t be possible (unless you ALSO have something to catch the bar at the bottom as well as at the top)… A slight pause can be done, but imo it’s easiest on the shoulders to lower with a 3 or 4 count (not seconds, faster) and then press back up forcefully… Maybe a slight pause, but I’m not much of a fan of actual paused (not dead stop) floor presses.
They feel too awkward to me…
And when doing touch and go, without a controlled negative you may end up hurting yourself (elbows, shoulders), so careful.
If you’re just looking for a good tricep press, then another option are semi-neutral grip DB presses or some such, keep bells very close to the body (a little elbow flaring is fine) and let them touch somewhat high, or stop before they touch, your call and depends on forearm length etc… Touch and go, though there may be a hint of a pause at the bottom. No rack needed (unless you’re using upwards of the 150’s without a training partner, that could get difficult… I take the 'bells off hooks then).
[quote]nick.down.under wrote:
Hey CC, long time reader, first time poster. I was listening to The Fitcast this morning, and they were talking about a seminar that happened recently, and one of the presenters (at the seminar), Brijesh Patel, was apparently talking about scapular stability, and was talking about doing one arm rows and letting the whole shoulder girdle drop, and then retracting the scapula on the concentric.
Now this is second hand, Kevin, the host, was talking about Brijesh’s seminar, but it seems that they must have been stalking your T-Nation posts, because I could have sworn that’s what you have been talking about for the last, I don’t know, forever.[/quote]
Glad more people are catching on, especially in the BBing world where every other guy ends up messing up a shoulder or tearing a pec long before they even bench 405.
I didn’t come up with that though (well, I sort of did on my own I think, but powerlifters have known that long before my time).
Kroc’s first rowing vid also is what made me aware of how you can actually train the muscles retracting the scapulae (and pulling them down) with heavy exercises, not just the light rehab crap (which aren’t much help if you’re benching upwards of 500 and need to keep your setup tight), and that they can actually become stronger than the lats etc…
That being said, it’s more difficult to get that right when using just one arm vs. two, with the exception being hammer low rows maybe.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
How lean are you? If you’re sitting in the high teens in terms of bodyfat and are already losing strength, then something is wrong (give it another week though, as lack of sleep, time of day / neural activation etc can all fuck with your strength to a degree). If you’re lean already, then this is to be expected, especially for drug-free guys.
Your routine may also be too much during a diet… Or your diet is simply not as good as it could be.
Keep your protein intake high at at least 1.5 grams per lb/bodyweight, I’d go with 1.8 up to 2 especially on routines like DC, Max-OT, etc…
Note: Receiving pm’s from people but can’t reply it seems. Sorry…
[/quote]
Thanks CC,
I don’t know what my bodyfat % is, but abs are a little blurry. Currently, I’m doing 5/3/1 to try and keep strength while the accessories are ramped in the 5-8 rep range. I do two workouts a day 3 days a week. Single workout 2 days a week and rest on the other 2 days. This is how I’ve been working out for the past year and have made good gains until now 2 wks into my cut. As for diet, I cut down 500 calories from my daily maintenance and cycling carbs with 2 high days, 2 med days and 3 low days ranging from 50 gm to 200 gm. After the first week and noticing no change in weight, I started doing steady state fasted cardio 1st thing in the morning for 20 min. Workouts don’t start til hours later. After 1 wk of cardio and keeping the planned diet, I finally noticed I lost 2 lbs. The strength lost seemed to start once the cardio began. Do you think this could be the reason? The scale wasn’t moving when I didn’t do the cardio. Should I cut back another 500 calories and stop the cardio? Thanks
Btw, a question about protein. Does the absorption rate of the protein change how much one should take daily? Should there be a difference in how much protein to take for someone using micellar casein (slow absorption) as opposed to peptopro (fast absorption)? Thanks.
tom [/quote]
First off, ditch the 2-a-days… Make it 3-6 days a week or so (the more days, the shorter the sessions obviously… Shorter sessions being preferable while recovery is compromised).
The rest is okay… Maybe make it a 6-way split with 5-3-1 on main exercises or so… Or a 4-way…
Absorption rate, no… Don’t make it that complicated.
Do you think it’s a waste of time for someone to give extra attention to one body part while still keeping the overall frequency of the entire body higher than 1x a week?
For instance, if I’m working the Yates 3-way 4-5 times a week, what’s your opinion on adding 1 or 2 lighter sets of rear delt work on chest/bi/tri day after working that area hard on back/delt day? Would I be better off running a true specialization, i.e. working rear delts 2x a week, everything else 1x, even though everything needs work?
I think you’d get better results from a real spec program, target area twice per week, rest once, long-term (1-2 years for shoulders+traps for most natties for example, if changing proportions in a serious way is the goal).
You can try what you outlined on the yates routine though… Especially if you’re still gaining fairly fast (i.e. in your first 3 serious years or so). But seriously, chest+bi+tri day is going to be 6 or more exercises already (and if you do DB presses plus heavy curls, your grip will likely be shot)… Do you really want to add even more?
I’d maybe add to delt+back day (after back, on reverse pec deck and face pulls to upper chest ala Mike Wolfe in the lat-pulldown, leaning back, wide neutral grip if you have the right attachment or so)… But it’s all a bit of an issue with the higher frequency and overlap etc…
