When working chest and back on the same day, do you alternate exercises?
Incline BB
Rack chins
DB bench
Kroc rows
Then maybe facepulls and pec dec. Supersetted or whatever. Not looking for heavy weight or much in terms of progression here.
Or
Inc BB
DB bench
Pec dec
Rack chins
Krocs
Facepulls
Also, I must admit that Iāve fucked up with my diet these last 8 weeks. This has resulted in me putting on a lot of fat again.(Itās scary how fast I gain it back if I donāt pay attention)
My waistline has exploded, so I have no choice right now but to go on a diet. Iām hoping to keep a lot more muscle this time around, seeing as how Iām stronger than I was the last time I was this fat, and I now have a better grasp of training in general. Mostly thanks to you, but you know that.
I canāt do morning cardio anymore. My left shin hurt like hell and I canāt walk as fast as I would like to. No idea what it is, perhaps some sort of tendonitis. I guess Iāll have to go to a doctor. Iāll have to rely on cardio equipment in the gym.
Here is the plan, taken from CTās writings:
Monday: Chest and back, heavy
Tuesday: Legs, heavy
Wednesday: OFF
Thursday: Lactate-inducing workout +30 minutes Steady State Cardio
Friday: Arms (heavy) and shoulders
Saturday: Lactate-inducing workout +30 minutes Steady State Cardio
Sunday: OFF
The lactate-inducing workouts are curcuits with pretty light weight/ high reps.
Iām unsure how many kcal to start my diet with, but CTās recommendation is 1,5g protein and less than 30g carbs a day for a guy over 20% BF.(Not counting carbs from green veggies). Carb up once every 14 days. But I thought that maybe since Iām not really in a big hurry, I could have my workout shake with 2 scoops of malto and overshoot the carb allowence a little.
Now Thibs was 230lb 18% bodyfat when he did this thing, and Iām both fatter and weaker than he was. My goals are different too, in that I just want to get my waist down to a managable size and then resume gaining. Iām not looking to get really, really lean like he did.
Wow, did I write all that? I really only meant to ask if you think itās a good idea to cut back to 1 work set when one is dieting. lol
[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
When working chest and back on the same day, do you alternate exercises?
Incline BB
Rack chins
DB bench
Kroc rows
Then maybe facepulls and pec dec. Supersetted or whatever. Not looking for heavy weight or much in terms of progression here.
Or
Inc BB
DB bench
Pec dec
Rack chins
Krocs
Facepulls
[/quote]
No, I donāt like alternating chest/back, because a fatigued midback/scap area results in an unstable pressing setup for me (shoulders slipping off the bench when the weight is heavy) and fatigued lats usually mess up my bar-path on presses.
I go pressing first, then back workā¦ Only thing Iād do at the end is the pec deck (then again, I practically never use it anyway).
[quote]Bloobird wrote:
So, on this day is the trainee supposed to do the following:
Incline bench x6-10
Flat/decline bench x 6-10
Curl x 6-10
Different curl x 8-12 [/quote] Youād use 1 bicep-dominant curl and 1 brachialis/brachioradialis dominant one. Order is your call, but people keep saying that the brachialis thing results in too much forearm fatigue and impacts the tricep press, so you can do it at the end of the session as well or alternate bis and tris or whatever).[quote]
Tricep dominant pressing exercise x 6-10
Extension x 6-10
It seems like a lot of pressing in one day if Iāve interpreted it correctly, but is what Iāve just laid out essentially correct?[/quote]
Iāve revamped that split to
Chest+Back
Legs+Abs
Delts+Arms (order depends on exercise selection)
But yeah, you basically do it as you said when using the old yates variant.
You just have to choose wisely here:
Donāt do Flat Bench, Incline Bench, Free-weight CGP.
Instead, use something like an IH Press or SWRGB or a pin CGP (with the pins set at 2-3 board height, depending on your arm length and such) for the tris. Basically something where you can take the shoulders out of the movement, to a good degree.
Just take āstabilizerā/shoulder fatigue into considerationā¦
-Incline BB Bench
-Flat HammerStrength Bench
ā¦
-JM Presses in the regular Incline HS machine with seat dropped low
ā¦
For example.
[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Also, I must admit that Iāve fucked up with my diet these last 8 weeks. This has resulted in me putting on a lot of fat again.(Itās scary how fast I gain it back if I donāt pay attention)
My waistline has exploded, so I have no choice right now but to go on a diet. Iām hoping to keep a lot more muscle this time around, seeing as how Iām stronger than I was the last time I was this fat, and I now have a better grasp of training in general. Mostly thanks to you, but you know that.
I canāt do morning cardio anymore. My left shin hurt like hell[/quote] Does it start after a certain amount of time walking, or does it happen at randomā¦? [quote] and I canāt walk as fast as I would like to. No idea what it is, perhaps some sort of tendonitis. I guess Iāll have to go to a doctor. Iāll have to rely on cardio equipment in the gym.
Here is the plan, taken from CTās writings:
Monday: Chest and back, heavy
Tuesday: Legs, heavy
Wednesday: OFF
Thursday: Lactate-inducing workout +30 minutes Steady State Cardio
Friday: Arms (heavy) and shoulders
Saturday: Lactate-inducing workout +30 minutes Steady State Cardio
Sunday: OFF
The lactate-inducing workouts are curcuits with pretty light weight/ high reps.
Iām unsure how many kcal to start my diet with, but CTās recommendation is 1,5g protein and less than 30g carbs a day for a guy over 20% BF.(Not counting carbs from green veggies). Carb up once every 14 days. But I thought that maybe since Iām not really in a big hurry, I could have my workout shake with 2 scoops of malto and overshoot the carb allowence a little.
Now Thibs was 230lb 18% bodyfat when he did this thing, and Iām both fatter and weaker than he was. My goals are different too, in that I just want to get my waist down to a managable size and then resume gaining. Iām not looking to get really, really lean like he did.
Wow, did I write all that? I really only meant to ask if you think itās a good idea to cut back to 1 work set when one is dieting. lol
[/quote]
You might want to ask thibs, to be honest. Heās more of a diet guy than I am, and those recommendations+routine you posted came from him 
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Does it start after a certain amount of time walking, or does it happen at randomā¦?
You might want to ask thibs, to be honest. Heās more of a diet guy than I am, and those recommendations+routine you posted came from him [/quote]
It starts after a certain time, usually after the first hill. Feels tight and painful enough that it slows me down. It eases up a bit when I go downhill.
ā¦ and lol, no comment huh? 
Thatās ok, Iāll just give it a go as written. Iāll keep lifting like usual but add in those 2 cardio days in hope of getting my fat ass in some shape.
oh btw, dead stop extensions super setted with seated alternating db curls kicks ass and saves time I saw Kroc doing curls that way, and I like it.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Bloobird wrote:
So, on this day is the trainee supposed to do the following:
Incline bench x6-10
Flat/decline bench x 6-10
Curl x 6-10
Different curl x 8-12 Youād use 1 bicep-dominant curl and 1 brachialis/brachioradialis dominant one. Order is your call, but people keep saying that the brachialis thing results in too much forearm fatigue and impacts the tricep press, so you can do it at the end of the session as well or alternate bis and tris or whatever).
Tricep dominant pressing exercise x 6-10
Extension x 6-10
It seems like a lot of pressing in one day if Iāve interpreted it correctly, but is what Iāve just laid out essentially correct?
Iāve revamped that split to
Chest+Back
Legs+Abs
Delts+Arms (order depends on exercise selection)
But yeah, you basically do it as you said when using the old yates variant.
You just have to choose wisely here:
Donāt do Flat Bench, Incline Bench, Free-weight CGP.
Instead, use something like an IH Press or SWRGB or a pin CGP (with the pins set at 2-3 board height, depending on your arm length and such) for the tris. Basically something where you can take the shoulders out of the movement, to a good degree.
Just take āstabilizerā/shoulder fatigue into considerationā¦
-Incline BB Bench
-Flat HammerStrength Bench
ā¦
-JM Presses in the regular Incline HS machine with seat dropped low
ā¦
For example. [/quote]
Thanks, Iāll take all that into consideration.
Just wanted to pop in to tell you that the 5/3/1 template you hammered out for me is working great for everything besides bench. My arms hit 18 inches the other day, Iām squatting 3858, deadlifting 440 for reps and have increased my OHP to 1754.
Thanks man.
Hey man check the numbers i just put up today in my training log. Fucking epic first day on the new program!
[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:
Just wanted to pop in to tell you that the 5/3/1 template you hammered out for me is working great for everything besides bench. My arms hit 18 inches the other day, Iām squatting 3858, deadlifting 440 for reps and have increased my OHP to 1754.
Thanks man. [/quote]
Glad to hear it.
Whatās not going well on the bench though? Do you stall just off the chest or canāt you lock it out? Setup ok?
[quote]Matthaeus wrote:
Hey man check the numbers i just put up today in my training log. Fucking epic first day on the new program![/quote]
Done.
Good job!
I just havenāt progressed beyond a 5 pound increase since oh, early June or so. I think itās because Iām just not getting in enough work on the bench so my technique is suffering. Iāll probably be talking some of the really big dudes for some hands on advice soon.
CC-I appreciate your input. I have a printout of the 5/3/1 big but boring template, written as a four day split. I have been training on a three way push/pull/legs split with a high volume. If I understand you
correctly my strength is currently my main problem. I had plateaued on my deadlift and regressed on my Bench all while adding 15lbs of bodyweight which appears to be mostly bodyfat. I could not possibly be more frustrated with my progress. My goal is to enter a natural BBing contest and it seems like I am getting further instead of closer to that goal. There are a lot of principles I like about DC like 2x a week frequency, and off days for cardio. If the fact is that I will not benefit from the program, than I do not want to do it. I have five to six days a week to spend 1.5hrs in the gym and access to good food. What would you suggest? I am ready to stop trying to follow my own programs and take advice from someone with more experience.
[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:
I just havenāt progressed beyond a 5 pound increase since oh, early June or so. I think itās because Iām just not getting in enough work on the bench so my technique is suffering. Iāll probably be talking some of the really big dudes for some hands on advice soon. [/quote]
You got a bench vid by any chance?
Also, are you doing bench as a main 5/3/1 exercise, or as assistance?
I donāt have a bench vid. I could make one though.
And Iāve been using it as a 5/3/1 exercise.
Hey CC
I was thinking about adding in a day of just tricep work. I will add pin cgpās on my bench day. The only day it would fit in would be Sunday. On saturday I do shoulders and on Monday I deadlift. I donāt wanna do any pressing exercises to keep my upper back fresh for deadlifts. I was thinking about doing deadstop skulls, then pushdowns, then a cybex seated extension machine thing. Any thoughts?
Thanks a lot
[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
CC-I appreciate your input. I have a printout of the 5/3/1 big but boring template, written as a four day split. I have been training on a three way push/pull/legs split with a high volume. If I understand you
correctly my strength is currently my main problem. I had plateaued on my deadlift and regressed on my Bench all while adding 15lbs of bodyweight which appears to be mostly bodyfat. I could not possibly be more frustrated with my progress. My goal is to enter a natural BBing contest and it seems like I am getting further instead of closer to that goal. There are a lot of principles I like about DC like 2x a week[/quote] Itās 3 times in 2 weeks, actually, on the 2-way variant. [quote] frequency, and off days for cardio. If the fact is that I will not benefit from the program, than I do not want to do it. I have five to six days a week to spend 1.5hrs in the gym and access to good food. What would you suggest? I am ready to stop trying to follow my own programs and take advice from someone with more experience. [/quote]
Well, if you used a 3-way, then I donāt get why you went the high-volume route to be honestā¦ Unless you did it over 3 days a week only.
3-way suggestions:
(this is the old āYatesā 3-way, many like it a lot, but the chest, bi, tri day can be a bit much. If you go up with the frequency to 6 days a week, then do 1 less bi and 1 less tri exercise on that day and use a double rotation)
Day 1 - Chest, Bis, Tris
-Incline Press variant
-Flat/Decline Press variant or Pec Deck (if chest is not a major concern atm and you want to focus on something else)
-Bicep-focused Curl (Alt. Offset curls, Incline Offset Curls, Conc curls bent over at the db rack)
-Tricep Press (machine JMās, In-Humans, SWRGBās, Pin CGP)
-Brachialis/Brachioradialis -focused Curl (Pinwheels are the best choice here, otherwise alt. hammers or some such)
-Extension/Pullover-Extension variant (PJRās, DSEās, Larry Scott Extensions)
Day 2 - Legs, Abs (can be calves hams quads ala DC or quads hams calves. I prefer the first variant)
-Calf Exercise
-Ham Exercise (GH raises, Rev. Hyper machine, SLDLās, PL GMās, Lying Leg Curls)
-Quad Exercise (note: If you want to do Rack Pulls on back day, donāt do anything low-back hammering on leg day in the same cycle) (Back Squats, Front Squats, Leg Presses, Hack Machine, Power/V-Squat machine squats)
-Weighted Ab exercise and/or EZ bar/AB wheel rollouts
Day 3 is usually off, unless you want to change the frequency.
Day 4 - Delts, Back (in that order)
-Overhead Press variant (SHIPs, HS OHP, DB OHP, whatever, mil presses are not the best choice imo)
-Lateral variant (machine or db, if db then turn them into a semi-db-upright row)
-Backwidth (rack āchinsā are my fav here, HS Pulldown machine, hs high rows, pulldowns, etc. Pull-ups only if you really feel them in the back and can actually progress on them without crazy high frequency)
-Backthickness (kroc rows with scap retraction each rep are my fav, HS low rows, Rack Pulls with scap retraction after each lockout, t-bar rows and so onā¦ Make sure to balance low-back involvement with leg day)
Day 5 is usually off, unless frequency has been altered.
On day 6 the cycle begins anew. Unless youāre still fried.
So this would be 3 days out of 5 frequency.
More recently, that split has been updated to
Day 1 Chest+Back
Day 2 off
Day 3 Legs+Abs
Day 4 Delts+Arms (note: exercise order depends on exercise selection)
Day 5 off
Day 6 repeat
Exercise selection as in the Yates variant.
Note: Usually one ramps up to a top set with fairly large weight-jumps on this, i.e.
135x8
225x5
315x3
355x1 (if you want)
405x8 or whatever you get (your work set)
Now, on some exercises you might want to do 2 work sets, so that would be 2 at different rep ranges/weight.
Either heavy first, light after that (5-8 followed by 9-12 usually), or the other way around (9-12 first, then 5-8ā¦ Or 6-8 plus 4-6 or whatever).
DC Rest-Pause can be used with the regular (3 out of 5) and lower frequencies, but not on all exercises. Works best with a double or triple rotation in that case.
CTās ramping variant (small weight jumps, low reps, equal reps on all ramped sets, warm-ups plus feel sets are handled separately) can be done on the normal and lower frequencies.
If you go with 6-day a week frequency, then imo itās best to reduce exercises to 1 per muscle-group except perhaps for back (still gets width and thickness).
As for 5/3/1, thatās another storyā¦ If youāre interested in that, I can go into more detail.
[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:
I donāt have a bench vid. I could make one though.
And Iāve been using it as a 5/3/1 exercise.[/quote]
How can you only have progressed by 5 pounds in half a year (or whatever) when using it as a main exercise?
Do your reps just drop below even the dayās rep-goal when adding weight or what?
Can you post 2 bench cycles from your log perhaps?
[quote]yvanehtnioj wrote:
Hey CC
I was thinking about adding in a day of just tricep work. I will add pin cgpās on my bench day. The only day it would fit in would be Sunday. On saturday I do shoulders and on Monday I deadlift. I donāt wanna do any pressing exercises to keep my upper back fresh for deadlifts[/quote] No worries about that. You can press on saturday and deadlift on monday just fineā¦ The other way around could prove to be an issue if you were doing deads a day or two before pressing. [quote]. I was thinking about doing deadstop skulls, then pushdowns, then a cybex seated extension machine thing. Any thoughts? [/quote] Not my thing. What does your routine look like? [quote]
Thanks a lot[/quote]
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
yvanehtnioj wrote:
Hey CC
I was thinking about adding in a day of just tricep work. I will add pin cgpās on my bench day. The only day it would fit in would be Sunday. On saturday I do shoulders and on Monday I deadlift. I donāt wanna do any pressing exercises to keep my upper back fresh for deadlifts No worries about that. You can press on saturday and deadlift on monday just fineā¦ The other way around could prove to be an issue if you were doing deads a day or two before pressing. . I was thinking about doing deadstop skulls, then pushdowns, then a cybex seated extension machine thing. Any thoughts? Not my thing. What does your routine look like?
Thanks a lot
[/quote]
Monday
Sumo Deadliftsā¦start with a weight i can get 3 reps for and stick with it until I get 6 reps
Front Squatsā¦top set of 6 or so reps
Wednesday
BPā¦top set of 6 reps
Incline BPā¦top set of 7 or 8 reps
gonna add in pin cgbpā¦top set of 10 reps
Thursday
Squatā¦start with a weight i can get for 3 times and keep with it until i get 8
Rack Chinsā¦top set of 10-12 reps
db rowsā¦top set of 15-20 reps
Saturday
High Incline Seated Barbell pressā¦I rest pause these for like 12-15 total reps most of the time
Lateral Raiseā¦top set of 10-15 reps
Shrugsā¦top set of 6-8 reps
gonna switch to Barbell curls from db alt curlsā¦rest paused, once i get 30 reps total I add weight
Pinwheelsā¦top set of 12-15 reps
And I guess Sunday would be
deadstop skulls
pushdowns
then cubex extensions???