[quote]Stuntman Mike wrote:
CC, if you would take time to look at -our- training.
We would love for you to make an appearance.[/quote]
Oh, you mean over at IM?
Damn, I’ll have to make a new account and split my time between 2 boards now… Cash or Credit Card?
(I haven’t forgotten you guys though, no worries. Always been just a lurker at IM, however)
[quote]joebassin wrote:
300andabove wrote:
joebassin wrote:
I had the feeling I would may be get the try it for yourself answer but it’s ok I just never try ramping always did straight sets so its hard for me to have an idea. I would like to try ramping when I start a new program in a couple of weeks and just want to know more before I start. But may be in the end this is all just little details that do not really matter. But my questioning is more about the weight jump between the last two sets and would have like to have input from people who tried both way. Anyway I will try that stuff in the gym in 2-3 weeks. Thank you for your reply.
Everyone hates the “Do it yourself” bit 
Ramping is fine, obviously for bigger exercises you need more than say for lateral raises.
As for the last jump depends really on if your “awake” to jumping that high, some people need more sets to get their brain tuned into it.
But is it also that big jump = training effect come mostly from last set while small jump = getting more from the other sets? Also C_C talked about doing two heavier sets after the top set and you get a little “strenght boost”. Would using a smaller jump between the last sets give somewhat of a similar effect? Thanks for your time and I should probably try it myself anyway
[/quote]
As I said in one of my posts above, when using that method I described, it’s either/or… You can go
405
425
435
or
405
445
490
or
405
435
465
It’s totally up to you and depends on how much focus you want on lower or mid range etc…
-(Dead Stop Extensions, lying and behind the head) ← 2x15, usual protocol.
Is that like Skull crushers?
Thank a lot for your reply CC very instructive.
So basicaly you are warming up, then you do one max set for say 10 reps using close to 10RM then 2 more sets with heavier weights for for a max number of reps. (Or you can do the same number of reps with less weight or same weight again after top set.) I guess these 2 heavier set help you gain more strength as well as making you work on a larger rep range. By the way isn’t that looks more like straight set than ramping
I don’t follow CT routine always did my own stuff based partly on his articles and some other stuff i have read here. I have always used straight set with same weight for all sets. Strenght gain seem to come very slow unless I do set of 6 or less. I’m planning next to do a 2way twice a week like this 1) chest, back, delts, day 2) tris, bis, legs. It seems that my arms progress more on this than upper/lower don’t know why though. I’ll do my exercice selection and ask your input if you don’t mind. May be I should try your idea of the two heavier set after top sets. And concerning the various way to do this thing I guess that all that matter in the end is that one get stronger from workout to workout.
[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
-(Dead Stop Extensions, lying and behind the head) ← 2x15, usual protocol.
Is that like Skull crushers? [/quote]
Not quite. They’re done lying on a flat bench or on the ground, with the bar coming down behind your head instead of on the forehead or nose. Easier on the elbows. You also stop with your upper arms at an incline rather than perpendicular to the floor.
Note: They are actually done with a dead stop at the bottom on the floor or bench between each rep.
No bouncing.
Get elbow sleeves though if you don’t have any yet.
Oh and CC, I’m going to make a log today titled “Working with Carnage”
If you can come up with a better one, let me know. I don’t want to sound corny, just couldn’t come up with anything better
CC.
I’m thinking of starting a new routine which goes like
1.Shoulders Bis
2.Legs
3.Chest Tris
4.Back Traps
and a GPP day somewhere.
I’m not sure how many total reps I should be doing for each body part though, or how many exercises to include. I’m thinking maybe no more than 4-6 exercises in 1 workout depending on the set and rep schemes.
Any advise? I was just wondering because I’m not use to splits.
I can incline 265 for 5
Can squat 405 sets of 3 below parallel
pullups I can do a set of 5 with 90 pounds
Well I’m going to make a thread in the training log called “Working with Carnage” …if you can think of a better title before 10 pm EST (right now it’s 9:10 p.m. EST) I will call it something else.
Will look forward to your advice and if you want I will put what I ate (plus my fitday log in there if you’d like to see)
I appreciate you taking the time to help me out. Thank you very much
-Rob
[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
Well I’m going to make a thread in the training log called “Working with Carnage” …if you can think of a better title before 10 pm EST (right now it’s 9:10 p.m. EST) I will call it something else.
Will look forward to your advice and if you want I will put what I ate (plus my fitday log in there if you’d like to see)
I appreciate you taking the time to help me out. Thank you very much
-Rob[/quote]
Sounds good.
I’m curious do you planned to do the 2 heavier sets CC sugest after the max set.
I’m going to try
[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
Oh and CC, I’m going to make a log today titled “Working with Carnage”
If you can come up with a better one, let me know. I don’t want to sound corny, just couldn’t come up with anything better[/quote]
How about ALKoHoLiK’s journey to 300?
[quote]Undertow wrote:
CC.
I’m thinking of starting a new routine which goes like
1.Shoulders Bis [/quote] Hmmm, bis after shoulders could prove troublesome… If you end up irritating your bicep tendon at the shoulder joint from your delt work (or any kind of pressing), then you’ll feel uncomfortable during bicep work and it’s going to hold you back far more than doing bis after back.
[quote]
2.Legs
3.Chest Tris
4.Back Traps
and a GPP day somewhere.
I’m not sure how many total reps[/quote] The body doesn’t count reps, even though some smart-ass author seems to think so
I’ve grown just fine from doing only 12-15 total reps under working weight spread over 2 exercises per bodypart, once a week… And I’ve grown just fine from doing more reps, or more frequency, or whatever. You don’t have to do 25 or whatever number someone invented. [quote] I should be doing for each body part though, or how many exercises to include. I’m thinking maybe no more than 4-6 exercises in 1 workout depending on the set and rep schemes.
Any advise? I was just wondering because I’m not use to splits.
I can incline 265 for 5
Can squat 405 sets of 3 below parallel
pullups I can do a set of 5 with 90 pounds [/quote]
Post up some other numbers. Some form of curl + overhead press, deadlift or rack pull and/or row (free-weight, since cable stations are all different)
Do you want to train 4 days per week? Do you have certain weak areas you want to bring up?
If you’re not used to splits, you could also try, for example, the 2-way split over 4 days which I posted above…
And if 2 leg “days” are too much for you, we can make that one actual leg day and 4 upper body days split between chest/delts/tris and back/bis or so, many options.
My standard 4-way with 1/week/bodypart frequency is still:
[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
I’m going to try[/quote]
You’ll do fine, I’m sure.
Post the link to your log here once you’ve created it.
[quote]joebassin wrote:
Thank a lot for your reply CC very instructive.
So basicaly you are warming up, then you do one max set for say 10 reps using close to 10RM then 2 more sets with heavier weights for for a max number of reps. (Or you can do the same number of reps with less weight or same weight again after top set.)[/quote] Yeah, though the reps/weight sort of depend on the exercise etc, and I may or may not go to failure on all but the last work set. [quote] I guess these 2 heavier set help you gain more strength as well as making you work on a larger rep range[/quote] Yep, the original idea also came from just flipping Phil Hernon’s 4 8 12 or 5 10 15 around so it would be the light sets first and the heaviest last. Often, when going very heavy (1-5 reps with a 1-5RM) one messes up with technique/tightness etc to some degree (particularly beginners and especially on rows and such) and this may irritate, for example, the bicep tendon (on presses) or whatever. Now you don’t feel so great anymore when doing your lighter sets and they suffer as a result… Other people may not have that problem though, I don’t know. Besides, for some reason I gain strength much easier when going light to heavy instead of heavy to light. [quote]. By the way isn’t that looks more like straight set than ramping
[/quote] Hmm, actually, a “straight set” is just a regular set I suppose, no intensity techniques etc added. I’ve used “straight sets” to describe “all sets done at the same weight” because I saw so many others do that, but I guess that’s not quite right. Not sure here.
Anyway, you keep going heavier, = you ramp
See, with the regular all sets at the same weight approach (I tried that again when Big Beyond Belief etc came up in the forum), I may do
405x10
405x7-8 (at best)
405x5
or so.
Now I thought “hmm. Why don’t I increase the weight some each set and see where I end up”.
So I got (hypothetical weights here)
405x10
425x6-7 (ok, lost more reps than planned)
435x8! (hmmm.)
Even if all reps stay the same as the “straight set” variant, I’m still using more weight, right? And at such moderate-high rep ranges/intensities, speed seems pretty much the same, too.
So I like it better the second way… With heavier weights I noticed that this also, for some strange reason, feels better on the joints/tendons for me than using the same, lower weight again!?
495x5 feels good
495x4 start feeling it in the joints/tendons
495x3 feels bad, really.
Now
495x5 feels good
515x3-4 feels ok, but still not as good as the first
525x4 feels good again (nervous system etc doing something here!? I have no real explanation)
Ceph,
This has been one of the better forums on this site. Thanks for all the great info. I am currently doing the 5/3/1 with the bodybuilder xtras. Basicaly for me Im trying to get stronger and bigger just like everyone else. The one thing I have noticed at least for me is I dont feel like Im lifting enough. Then again that may be the BB mentality in me on a PL routine.
My shoulder revovery has always been excellant so I feel like I can hit them 3 days a week… mind you I dont but I feel like I can. I have always struggled with chest thickness and overall bicep growth but the biceps might be because myy forearms are so over devolped. Here is what Im doing now. Maybe you can offer some tips, ideas, criticism. Also for the record I am enhanced… for another 4 more weeks on some xtra test.
Week 1 - 4
Monday â?? Military Press
Wednesday â?? Deadlift
Friday â?? Bench PressMilitary Press 3 sets of 5 reps +2/3 Warmup [190]
Wave 1
75% x 5 (145)
80% x 5 (155)
85% x 5 (165)
90% (175)
95% (185)
DB Military Press â?? 4 sets of 10 reps
Upright Rows â?? 4 sets of 10 reps
Side Laterals â?? 4 sets of 10-12 reps
Barbell Curls â?? 4 sets of 10 reps
Deadlift - (sets and reps the same as the 5/3/1 Method) [365]
75% x 5 (275)
80% x 5 (290)
85% x 5 (310)
90% (325)
95% (350)
Chins\Lat pulldown â?? 4 sets of 10-12 reps
DB Rows â?? 4 sets of 10-12 reps/arm
Back Raises â?? 4 sets of 10 reps (with bar behind neck)
Bench Press - (sets and reps the same as the 5/3/1 Method) {335}
75% x 5 (250)
80% x 5 (265)
85% x 5 (280)
90% (300)
95% (320)
DB Bench Press â?? 4 sets of 10 reps
Dips (weighted) â?? 4 sets of 8-12 reps
Flyâ??s â?? 4 sets of 12 reps
Triceps Pushdowns â?? 4 sets of 10-12 reps
Squat - (sets and reps the same as the 5/3/1 Method) (365)
75% x 5 (275)
80% x 5 (290)
85% x 5 (310)
90% (325)
95% (350)
Bulgarian Split Squats 4x10 9 [Bodyweight]
hey Ceph, first day is up. Just thought I’d let you know
[quote]caladin wrote:
Ceph,
This has been one of the better forums on this site. Thanks for all the great info. I am currently doing the 5/3/1 with the bodybuilder xtras. Basicaly for me Im trying to get stronger and bigger just like everyone else. The one thing I have noticed at least for me is I dont feel like Im lifting enough[/quote] Not lifting enough what, not enough weight, not often enough…? [quote]. Then again that may be the BB mentality in me on a PL routine.
My shoulder revovery has always been excellant so I feel like I can hit them 3 days a week[/quote] Easy to say with the weights you’re lifting now… That could change really fast though a little further down the road. [quote]… mind you I dont but I feel like I can. I have always struggled with chest thickness[/quote] Shoulders taking over perhaps? Might be a setup/technique issue. [quote] and overall bicep growth but the biceps might be because myy forearms are so over devolped[/quote] Curl technique may need to be altered and perhaps some changes in your exercise selection plus getting stronger on your bi work… [quote]. Here is what Im doing now. Maybe you can offer some tips, ideas, criticism. Also for the record I am enhanced… for another 4 more weeks on some xtra test.
Week 1 - 4
Monday â?? Military Press
Wednesday â?? Deadlift
Friday â?? Bench Press
Saturday - Squat
[/quote] Hmm, Back squat and conv. deadlift on 2 different days in the same week… And your numbers on both a really low by comparison. That may need some fixing. [quote]
Military Press 3 sets of 5 reps +2/3 Warmup [190]
Wave 1
75% x 5 (145)
80% x 5 (155)
85% x 5 (165)
90% (175)
95% (185)
[/quote] Looks like you’re using the narrow/5% jump table. I’d go with the 10% jump variant, and so does Jim Wendler (or at least he mentioned it in his log that he prefers that one).
The first wave there is 65x5, 75x5, 85x5+, second wave is 70x3, 80x3, 90x3+, third wave is 75x5, 85x3, 95x1+
don’t remember the exact numbers of the deload, I think 55, 60, 65 or so? [quote]
DB Military Press â?? 4 sets of 10 reps
Upright Rows â?? 4 sets of 10 reps
Side Laterals â?? 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Barbell Curls â?? 4 sets of 10 reps
[/quote] Ugh, the bb assistance template, 4 sets at the same weight (what’s it, 60-70 percent of 1RM or some such?). Terrible [quote]
Deadlift - (sets and reps the same as the 5/3/1 Method) [365]
75% x 5 (275)
80% x 5 (290)
85% x 5 (310)
90% (325)
95% (350)
Chins\Lat Pulldown â?? 4 sets of 10-12 reps
DB Rows â?? 4 sets of 15 reps/arm
Back Raises â?? 4 sets of 10 reps (with bar behind neck)
Bench Press - (sets and reps the same as the 5/3/1 Method) {335}
75% x 5 (250)
80% x 5 (265)
85% x 5 (280)
90% (300)
95% (320)
DB Bench Press â?? 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Dips (weighted) â?? 4 sets of 8-15 reps
Flyâ??s â?? 4 sets of 12 reps
Triceps Pushdowns â?? 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Squat - (sets and reps the same as the 5/3/1 Method) (365)
75% x 5 (275)
80% x 5 (290)
85% x 5 (310)
90% (325)
95% (350)
Bulgarian Split Squats 4x10 9 [Bodyweight][/quote]
If you want to just lift more often, do a 3-way over 6 days per week or over 5, or a 2-way over 6 days (like Big beyond belief).
If you want to stay with 5/3/1, it can be done on a 6-way split (but squats and deads in the same week will still be an issue… Though we could put them on the same day and have squats be a 5/3/1 exercise and treat deadlifts as assistance work… Or you choose some variation that’s easier on the low back, like sumo deads or front squats.
I feel like Im not lifting often enough. Itching to get back in the gym. Recovery is pretty solid but that might be the xtra test so that might change here soon.
I agree the numbers are low on squats and deads. I took almost 3 months off from them do to thinking I needed to work on my sprints. I think I was just looking for an excuse to be lazy on the lower body. That has changed.
Will change up to the 10% jump variant.
If I stay with the 5/3/1 what assisitance template do you recommend? Seems you dont care for the BB one.
I would like to stay with he 5/3/1 for now. I think you lost me with the 6way split. How is that written up?
Well I beat the shit out of myself with the what I do know on leg day. So throwing deads in on the same day I would probaly only give about 5%. So if I do sumo deads on deadlift day or front squats on quad day then I can keep those on the cycle of I have setup on now?
Maybe the shoulder are taking over. then again maybe the tris. I have poured over Tates chest training info. So I think Im doing them correct. Then again…
Ya biceps have always been lagging.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
ALKoHoLiK wrote:
Oh and CC, I’m going to make a log today titled “Working with Carnage”
If you can come up with a better one, let me know. I don’t want to sound corny, just couldn’t come up with anything better
How about ALKoHoLiK’s journey to 300?
[/quote]
Ghey you just want a bit of my name so you can sort of call me brother but talk to Alcoholic.
NO WAY !
[quote]300andabove wrote:
Ghey you just want a bit of my name so you can sort of call me brother but talk to Alcoholic.
NO WAY ![/quote]
Aww come on brother, join the club