Cephalic Carnage: How Do You Train?

I will definitely take you up on advice for a routine/help.

I’ve only done 2 cycles of 5/3/1 and right now tomorrow is my last day of the deload week.

I have no attachments to any program, however when I read the reviews for 5/3/1 I thought it best to go there instead of trying TBT again. If you decide to go 5/3/1 or another split is cool with me.

My best are for 1 RM
Bench: 240lbs
Squat: 260lbs(Broke my back so I couldn’t do much here and honestly in HS never trained it much)
Dead: 375lbs
Overhead: 160lbs

I have time for a 4-5 day split. I’ve also read on page 2 what you train post #13 (or did train by your split). I want size first and foremost. I know I need to eat more to grow, last time I checked Fitday log I had about 2500kcal, macro was a 40/40/20.

Supplements right now I have are:
8lbs ONS Whey
Creatine Micronize Mono
Flameout
Surge Recovery and Surge Workout Fuel

pre/post goes as
-30mins: 2 Scoops of Surge Workout Fuel
-10mins: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery (Creatine 5g)
During: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery (Creatine 5g)
1 hour later Chicken breast can of black beans and some hot sauce

I appreciate the advice you gave me in the other thread, hopefully I didn’t babble on to much

[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
I will definitely take you up on advice for a routine/help.

I’ve only done 2 cycles of 5/3/1 and right now tomorrow is my last day of the deload week.

I have no attachments to any program, however when I read the reviews for 5/3/1 I thought it best to go there instead of trying TBT again. If you decide to go 5/3/1 or another split is cool with me.

My best are for 1 RM
Bench: 240lbs
Squat: 260lbs(Broke my back so I couldn’t do much here and honestly in HS never trained it much)
Dead: 375lbs
Overhead: 160lbs

I have time for a 4-5 day split. I’ve also read on page 2 what you train post #13 (or did train by your split). I want size first and foremost. I know I need to eat more to grow, last time I checked Fitday log I had about 2500kcal, macro was a 40/40/20.

Supplements right now I have are:
8lbs ONS Whey
Creatine Micronize Mono
Flameout
Surge Recovery and Surge Workout Fuel [/quote] That made me laugh, every beginner starts off buying a bunch of supplements before they even bench 300 for a lousy single :slight_smile:
Oh well. [quote]

pre/post goes as
-30mins: 2 Scoops of Surge Workout Fuel
-10mins: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery (Creatine 5g)
During: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery (Creatine 5g)
1 hour later Chicken breast can of black beans and some hot sauce

I appreciate the advice you gave me in the other thread, hopefully I didn’t babble on to much
[/quote]
Nah, all good.

4-5 days…

Ok, you can choose… Either a 5/3/1 routine (3 days a week, 4 different workouts cycled with assistance work set up so that you hit everything roughly 1.5 times a week, i.e. 2 workouts = all muscles trained, though the main 5/3/1 exercises are still hit at reduced frequency as usual)

Or, if you want a more open and potentially faster (though you will need to use your intuition/develop it here… Common sense required!) way of progression for now, you could do

  1. 2-way split over 4 days a week. (4 different workouts/double rotation)

  2. 4 upper body days (4 different ones, push and pull perhaps, or a mixture) and one lower day (squats+deads or so)

  3. 4 or 5-way split, lower frequency (1/week/bodypart, but you could train one muscle-group twice)

  4. 3-way split cycled over 5 days.

Pick one and I’ll elaborate.

Well I bought into the stuff because honestly, I want to every workout work as hard as I can. If “A” supplement can do that, I will try it. I just don’t want to look back at my training and be like, “Shit, that could of helped me a ton”

Lol I can understand why you laugh, hell now that I look at it, it’s kinda funny. Just thought I would give you a little preview to my understanding (Tho I could be wrong and it wouldn’t be the first time)

You have intrigued me, so I would like to go with the 2-way split over 4 days. Also could you explain point (3) for me as well

[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
Well I bought into the stuff because honestly, I want to every workout work as hard as I can. If “A” supplement can do that, I will try it. I just don’t want to look back at my training and be like, “Shit, that could of helped me a ton”

Lol I can understand why you laugh, hell now that I look at it, it’s kinda funny. Just thought I would give you a little preview to my understanding (Tho I could be wrong and it wouldn’t be the first time)

You have intrigued me, so I would like to go with the 2-way split over 4 days. Also could you explain point (3) for me as well[/quote]

Option 3 is dead simple, easy to follow, doesn’t cause all that much systematic fatigue (i.e. you won’t need much time off as long as you eat right and don’t mess up your sleep patterns).

Option 3) (let’s go with a 4-way, can be organized in million ways…)
One way:
Day 1 Chest+Back
Day 2 Legs
Day 3 off (or not, your call)
Day 4 Delts+Traps
Day 5 Arms
Day 6 off
Day 7 off

or

Day 1 Chest+Tris
Day 2 Back+Bis
Day 3 Legs+Abs
Day 4 Shoulders+Traps

Then on day 5, you can continue the cycle, then take the weekend off or so, then continue the cycle again
day 1 c+t
day 2 b+b
day 3 l+a
day 4 s+t
day 5 c+t
day 6 off
day 7 off
day 8 b+b
day 9 l+a

This would give you slightly higher overall frequency.

If you want to focus on a specific group of muscles instead, just always train the same group twice per week in some manner (could do 2 chest+tri days, the second perhaps with less volume or different exercises or so…)

Pretty much standard bodybuilding, probably 2 main exercises per session per muscle-group and perhaps another for the pump or maybe not… Legs may be treated a little differently…

The 2 way over 4 days, on the other hand, could be something like:
-Upper - Lower split (don’t like those much, too much work on upper body days)
-2-way like the standard DC variant (chest, delts, tris, backwidth, backthickness on day 1… bis, forearms, calves, hams, quads on day 2)
-day 1) chest, back, delts, day 2) tris, bis, legs
-day 1) chest, back, bis, day 2) delts, tris, legs

Anything like that.

Example split:

Day 1
-CGP (shoulder wide grip or so, elbows tucked at the bottom, can flare on the way up)
-Standing OHP (from the chin)
-HS pulldowns or Rack Chins
-HS low rows or Yates Rows or whatever (form = like getting into bottom position of PL bench, sort of, with less arching)
-Some pullover/extension variant for the tris

Day 2
off

Day 3
-Alt. Offset Curls
(-perhaps one-arm hammers)
-Back Squats
-Deadlifts or SLDL or so? (one week you focus more on squats, the other on deads)
-Ab and calf work, but ab work has priority (EZ rollouts or pulldown abs)

Day 4 off

Day 5
-Low-Incline Bench or flat bench
-Low-Incline DB bench or flat or HS machine or whatever
-Kroc Rows
-HS high rows?
-(Dead Stop Extensions, lying and behind the head)

Day 6
-Pinwheel Curls with straps
(- perhaps one arm curls or HS machine curls)
-Leg Presses or Hack squat machine
-Leg Curl variant or reverse hyper machine or GH raises

Day 7
off

Could also go about it differently, but you get the idea.
Reps/sets etc I can give you if you want to know more…

Absolutely. I would like to know as much as you are willingly to share.

[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
Absolutely. I would like to know as much as you are willingly to share.[/quote]

which variant, the 2-way over 4 days or the 4-way?

2-way split over 4 days

[quote]ALKoHoLiK wrote:
2-way split over 4 days[/quote]

Hmmm. You have a whole bunch of options here as far as set/rep schemes go.

I’d like to try something here though… Fast becoming a favorite of mine, but bear with me, it’s not very precise as far as rules go:

Say, you’re doing CGP.
Ok, you warm up first.
135x8
225x5-8
315x3-8 (you can semi-rush through these first warm-ups, 1 min rest or so only if you like, at most 2 before the last)
now, first work set after 3-4 mins of rest (rest depends on how many reps you did on your last warm-up, more reps = more rest)
405x6-10 or whatever.
Then you rest 4-5 minutes.
425x as many as possible (4-6 maybe?)
another 4-5 minutes or so.
435x as many as possible (might be 4-8, nervous system revved up)

If you want to go a bit heavier, you might do
405x6-10
445xamap
485xamap or so. But leave that for later. Basic idea is to just go heavier after your regular 8-10 RM or whatever. Often your 8RM is higher than you think or can do after your regular warm-ups.
Happened to me a lot recently that, after warming up, I did a weight x8 or x6 (the last one was non-failure, could have gotten 8 maybe) and then just decided to go heavier and see… So it went 6 reps, + 20lbs, 5-6 reps, and, oh surprise, + another 10lbs and suddenly I got 8 again.

The first work set doesn’t necessarily have to be to failure, and neither does the second.
The third should imo… If you have a spotter to help in case you get stuck, go all out there.
You can go to positive failure on all of them if you like. May have to in order to get PR’s.

Now, how do you progress with this stuff? You can pretty much keep adding 2.5-5 lbs to your heaviest set for a while, but especially on the first set you might want to work on reps more often, i.e. keep it at roughly 8-10 (or whatever range I gave below) or so or work up to 12 reps even. The middle set is really just a bridge to the last and to get you into heavier-lifting -mode.
How exactly you progress is up to you there…

Another thing: You might want to go heavy 3 out of 4 weeks, but on the fourth or whenever you have a bad day, just use a certain landmark weight and rep out (like, your last session was 405, 435, 465, and you don’t feel too great or it’s been 3 heavy weeks… Just do 315x as many as possible then or so and do improve on that as well.

If this is too complicated or anything, do a light + a heavy set, or just one top set, or 2 at the same weight or whatever.

Day 1
-CGP (shoulder wide grip or so, elbows tucked at the bottom, can flare on the way up) ← work up to 8-10, then 2 additional, consecutively heavier sets.
-Standing OHP (from the chin) ← You can use any overhead press here, and if it’s a seated high incline OHP in the smith, you can do it from the nose rather than from the chin if you want to… Anyway, work up to 8-10, then 1-2 heavier sets. Your call, I’d leave it at 2 total work sets at first, maybe.
-HS pulldowns or Rack Chins ← 2x12-15 (you have to decide for yourself what you want to use as your target number… If you hit that number, up the weight for the second set, if not, keep weight… Or use 15-30 DC Rest-Pause.
-HS low rows or Yates Rows or whatever (form = like getting into bottom position of PL bench, sort of, with less arching) ← If it’s yates rows, make it 2x15 (same format as above on backwidth… I.e. increase weight for second set if you got all reps of the first, otherwise keep weight for second set the same).
If it’s a machine row, your call… 10-12 followed by a heavier 6-8 perhaps.
-Some pullover/extension variant for the tris (2x15, same format as above, or 15-30DC RP)

Day 2
off

Day 3
-Alt. Offset Curls ← work up to 8-10 (per arm, i.e. 16-20 total reps) and do 2 consecutively heavier sets after that.
(-perhaps one-arm hammers) ← if you do those, then only 1x10-15 or so.
-Back Squats ← One week, work up to 10-12, then keep going heavier for 2 or so additional sets. You could end up at 12, 8, 4 or so, for example… Or just 12, 8, 8… The next week, we’re going to focus on deadlifts instead, so only do a set of 8-12.
-Deadlifts or SLDL or so? (one week you focus more on squats, the other on deads) ← When it’s squat-focus week, work up to a set of 8-10. When it’s deadlift week, either do a heavy 6-8 followed by a lighter 8-12 (4-5 mins rest between) or work up to 6-8 and keep going heavier for 2 additional sets.
-Ab and calf work, but ab work has priority (EZ rollouts or pulldown abs) ← if it’s weighted ab work, do 2x15 or 2x20, or just 2x8, depending on the exercise (usual protocol)

Day 4 off

Day 5
-Low-Incline Bench or flat bench ← work up to 8-10, then go heavier for 2 additional sets…
-Low-Incline DB bench or flat or HS machine or whatever ← 1x10-15, or 2x8-10, usual protocol.
-Kroc Rows ← 1 set of pure KROC! of course :slight_smile: 10-25 reps, but do get your technique right… Needs to hit backthickness. Elbow out to some degree. Use straps. Every other week you could work up to 6-8 heavy and then do another lighter 8-12, or the other way around. But it shouldn’t be necessary.
-HS high rows? ← 1-2 sets of 12-15.
-(Dead Stop Extensions, lying and behind the head) ← 2x15, usual protocol.

Day 6
-Pinwheel Curls with straps ← work up to 8-10 reps per arm, then 2 consecutively heavier sets.
(- perhaps one arm curls or HS machine curls) ← if you do them, just 1 working set for higher reps… 8-15. Perhaps 1 warmup before that at half working weight or so…
-Leg Presses or Hack squat machine ← Work up to a 10-12 rep set or so, or go 12-15.
-Leg Curl variant or reverse hyper machine or GH raises ← Higher reps here as well, 8-15, kind of depends on the exercise though. Might want to do 2 sets at either the same or increasing weight.

Day 7
off

If you decide to use this split or a similar one + the method I outlined above, make a log here and post the link so that I can keep tabs on your progress and see if anything needs to be modified…

Oh yeah, food (without it, nothing goes anywhere fast):
-1.5 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight MINIMUM, 2 grams not needed yet but can help quite a bit. 1.8 would probably be, roughly, were you want to end up at.
Don’t get most of it from powder either.

-cals depend… How much do you weigh and how tall are you? Might want to start with 3000 and go from there… Maybe you’ll need more for fast progress, but you can just add and substract as necessary.

Also: Technique is important. Scapular retraction on rows and on rack pulls etc (as long as you’re not working with your 1-3RM there… And only after each lockout in the case of deadlift variants), PL setup for presses (though how much you tuck your elbows depends) and keep shoulders on the bench at all times…
A lot of that you’ll have to figure out for yourself though…

I’ve learnt quite a bit just by reading through this. CC you are a truly awesome guy with all the help and advice you give out. Mad respect.

[quote]The.Mentalist wrote:
I’ve learnt quite a bit just by reading through this. CC you are a truly awesome guy with all the help and advice you give out. Mad respect.[/quote]

Thanks, brother.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

Thanks, brother.
[/quote]

Ceph i must once again intervene :stuck_out_tongue:

Calling everyone your brother leads me to believe you have gone barking mad !

You are turning into what they call “An American” nasty disease it is, suffer from ILS and weigh in at 150lb, best go back to talking in German before it progresses any further !

Saving that, once you start calling your missus “Brother” in bed, i’m quite sure she will knock it out of you.

English women pale when it comes to ze German Frau’s

HA!

(p.s. hope your well :P)

[quote]300andabove wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

Thanks, brother.

Ceph i must once again intervene :stuck_out_tongue:

Calling everyone your brother leads me to believe you have gone barking mad ! [/quote] You’re just jealous… [quote]

You are turning into what they call “An American” nasty disease it is, suffer from ILS and weigh in at 150lb, best go back to talking in German before it progresses any further ! [/quote] Too late, must have had that disease from birth… I’ve always hated the German language :slight_smile:
The symptoms you described went away after I turned 20 and started training, though.

[quote]

Saving that, once you start calling your missus “Brother” in bed, i’m quite sure she will knock it out of you.[/quote] You didn’t mind last time we… Well, never mind.

[quote]

English women pale when it comes to ze German Frau’s
[/quote] Dunno about that… That gorgeous blonde, blue-eyed goodness is just a cliche man… You only get that in movies and the actresses are probably from sweden.
Real German females these days smoke more cigarettes in a day than the marlboro-man did in his entire life-time, drink more than the entire U.S. in the same time-frame, have muffin tops to rival their U.S. counterparts and a cute face is 1 in 30000 maybe… Plus lack of brain cells is a rather widespread disease over here.

(and they’re really only women for the first 25 years of their lives… Afterwards, each metamorphoses into a mixture of Jabba the Hutt and a really damn obnoxious, constantly barking dog) [quote]
HA!

(p.s. hope your well :P)[/quote]
Thanks for the concern haha
How are you doing, tealander?

I am not to bad thank you, gave myself a bad case of appendicitis i ignored “stomach pain” for days finally collapsed !

So kept in hospital last 5 days then sent “home” as they did not trust me to look after myself (aha) but ya not going back to work till Wednesday.

Hows tricks with you ? Still doing random crap in the gym for other people, or you settle down ?

This is from some CT post about ramping :
**********
My belief is that it is the intensity (load) of your best set that triggers the most growth. From my olympic lifting background, ramping up the weight allows me to reach a higher top weight as the CNS gets primed a bit more with every set.

Furthermore, ramping up allows you to work different part of the force spectrum.

For example the first two sets will be done with more acceleration (always try to lift as hard as possible… so lighter weights will go up faster) while the later ones will emphasize the ‘mass’ factor more (force = mass x acceleration).

If you try to lift the weight as hard as you can, anything above 70% of your maximum will lead to a near maximal force production.

if you are to do 6 sets of 3 you ramp up the weight each set until you reach the max weight you can handle on that day for 3 reps. When you reach the max you can do, STOP THE EXERCISE… YOU ONLY DO ONE SET OF YOUR MAX WEIGHT.

So the 6 x 3 might actually look like this:
Set 1: 350lbs x 3
Set 2: 370lbs x 3
Set 3: 390lbs x 3
Set 4: 400lbs x 3
Set 5: 410lbs x 3
Set 6: 415lbs x 3

Heck, you might even have to add a seventh set if the sixth one was not maximal OR you might have to do only 5 sets if the fifth one was maximal. This is micro autoregulation.

For weight variation from set to set I don’t work by percentage simply because they don’t work the same for every lift. Take for example a lateral raise for which your maximum is 50lbs for 3 reps and a deadlift for which your max is 500lbs for 3 reps.

If you were to use 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 as percentages it would give you:

30lbs, 35lbs, 40lbs, 45lbs, 50lbs on the laterals, or a 5lbs change at every set…

and;

300lbs, 350lbs, 400lbs, 450lbs, 500lbs on the deadlift, or a 50lbs change at every set…

Although relatively the same, 50lbs jumps are not the same in reality as 5lbs jumps.

With “small” movements I normally ramp up by 5lbs per set
With “medium” movements (military press, bench press, DB press, etc.) I normally ramp up by 10-20lbs
With “Big” movements (deadlift, squat, leg press, etc.) I normall ramp up by 20-30lbs
****************

As you can see he his using relatively small jump in weight between sets while guys here in the forum seem to use a “big” jump in weight between the last warm up and top set. This is done to minimize fatigue but will there be that much fatigue from doing say 200x10 before 210x10 if your 10RM is 210lbs? These small increase from set to set seem have a similitude to your idea of doing 2 heavier set after the first work set. Anyway I don’t have lots of knowlegde about this so your comments on this and the above text by CT would be appreciate.

By the way a learn a lot reading all your stuff here. Thank you for your time.

Bassin, as much as you will probably HATE to see this in print… work it out for yourself.

Some people NEED more sets to get warmed up, some need less, to try to fit a square into a circle shape will end up wasting your time… as in trying to force yourself to do 1 way when you may be better doing another way is silly.

Try low set/ high set out on yourself, see which one gets you in the mood to get the highest number, then keep using that pattern :slight_smile:

[quote]300andabove wrote:
Bassin, as much as you will probably HATE to see this in print… work it out for yourself.

Some people NEED more sets to get warmed up, some need less, to try to fit a square into a circle shape will end up wasting your time… as in trying to force yourself to do 1 way when you may be better doing another way is silly.

Try low set/ high set out on yourself, see which one gets you in the mood to get the highest number, then keep using that pattern :slight_smile:

[/quote]

I had the feeling I would may be get the try it for yourself answer but it’s ok :slight_smile: I just never try ramping always did straight sets so its hard for me to have an idea. I would like to try ramping when I start a new program in a couple of weeks and just want to know more before I start. But may be in the end this is all just little details that do not really matter. But my questioning is more about the weight jump between the last two sets and would have like to have input from people who tried both way. Anyway I will try that stuff in the gym in 2-3 weeks. Thank you for your reply.

[quote]joebassin wrote:

I had the feeling I would may be get the try it for yourself answer but it’s ok :slight_smile: I just never try ramping always did straight sets so its hard for me to have an idea. I would like to try ramping when I start a new program in a couple of weeks and just want to know more before I start. But may be in the end this is all just little details that do not really matter. But my questioning is more about the weight jump between the last two sets and would have like to have input from people who tried both way. Anyway I will try that stuff in the gym in 2-3 weeks. Thank you for your reply.
[/quote]

Everyone hates the “Do it yourself” bit :stuck_out_tongue:

Ramping is fine, obviously for bigger exercises you need more than say for lateral raises.

As for the last jump depends really on if your “awake” to jumping that high, some people need more sets to get their brain tuned into it.

[quote]joebassin wrote:
This is from some CT post about ramping :
**********
My belief is that it is the intensity (load) of your best set that triggers the most growth. From my olympic lifting background, ramping up the weight allows me to reach a higher top weight as the CNS gets primed a bit more with every set.

Furthermore, ramping up allows you to work different part of the force spectrum.

For example the first two sets will be done with more acceleration (always try to lift as hard as possible… so lighter weights will go up faster) while the later ones will emphasize the ‘mass’ factor more (force = mass x acceleration).

If you try to lift the weight as hard as you can, anything above 70% of your maximum will lead to a near maximal force production.

if you are to do 6 sets of 3 you ramp up the weight each set until you reach the max weight you can handle on that day for 3 reps. When you reach the max you can do, STOP THE EXERCISE… YOU ONLY DO ONE SET OF YOUR MAX WEIGHT.

So the 6 x 3 might actually look like this:
Set 1: 350lbs x 3
Set 2: 370lbs x 3
Set 3: 390lbs x 3
Set 4: 400lbs x 3
Set 5: 410lbs x 3
Set 6: 415lbs x 3

Heck, you might even have to add a seventh set if the sixth one was not maximal OR you might have to do only 5 sets if the fifth one was maximal. This is micro autoregulation.

For weight variation from set to set I don’t work by percentage simply because they don’t work the same for every lift. Take for example a lateral raise for which your maximum is 50lbs for 3 reps and a deadlift for which your max is 500lbs for 3 reps.

If you were to use 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 as percentages it would give you:

30lbs, 35lbs, 40lbs, 45lbs, 50lbs on the laterals, or a 5lbs change at every set…

and;

300lbs, 350lbs, 400lbs, 450lbs, 500lbs on the deadlift, or a 50lbs change at every set…

Although relatively the same, 50lbs jumps are not the same in reality as 5lbs jumps.

With “small” movements I normally ramp up by 5lbs per set
With “medium” movements (military press, bench press, DB press, etc.) I normally ramp up by 10-20lbs
With “Big” movements (deadlift, squat, leg press, etc.) I normall ramp up by 20-30lbs
****************

As you can see he his using relatively small jump in weight between sets while guys here in the forum seem to use a “big” jump in weight between the last warm up and top set. This is done to minimize fatigue but will there be that much fatigue from doing say 200x10 before 210x10 if your 10RM is 210lbs[/quote] Sure. You are very close to your maximum working weight for that amount of reps, that is, at least with higher reps, going to really have an impact on your strength and strength gain…
A little exception would be DB overhead presses, for example. There you might want to go
(after warmup/s)
120’s x 8
140’s x 8
160’s x as many as possible (probably more than 8)
Simply so you won’t have to use so much weight on your top set, as it’s difficult to get the heavy bells into position and handle them afterwards.

[quote] These small increase from set to set seem have a similitude to your idea of doing 2 heavier set after the first work set[/quote] Indeed, they are based on largely the same principles. You don’t have to keep your reps the same though. I like even going 15 reps, 10 reps, 5 reps or so… As I mentioned somewhere else, the reason why I’ve been doing that lately is because I tried Phil Hernon’s 5, 10, 15 thing and it didn’t really work out for me the way it should have… I just sort of swapped the first and last set and went with that, much better for some reason for me.
I don’t really stick with certain rep ranges on those sets though, I just go heavier and heavier and amount of work sets etc depend on how heavy I want to go.
If I want to get up to a heavy triple I may just do 5 work sets or 6 even, so that the volume will be adequate to elicit some kind of gain… And then I may use smaller weight jumps.

If I start with a 8+ rep set and still want to go real heavy, I may go up in bigger increments though and not add to many sets… This is really individual stuff though. The way I described in my previous posts has you (after warm-ups, which I used to count as ramping sets before) start very close or directly at your, say, 8RM, but then you go heavier from there and if you lose reps, so be it. I also don’t work with fixed percentages. If I want to get more reps with 495, and my first set used to be with 515, I may drop it down to 495 and keep that weight (though I may add weight to the other sets) until I can do enough reps with it.
Easier to do if you can already do a moderate to high amount of reps with that weight though, if we’re talking about a 2-3 rep weight or so, I’ll just put on 2.5 lbs or 5 lbs rather than try to work my way up to 8 reps with it.

CT starts (after warm-ups again) below his 8RM if he wants to do 8 reps and just keeps working up until he can’t get 8 anymore or maybe until you just barely get 8.

The other “ramping” thing still in use by many pro’s and others was going up from landmark-weight to landmark weight (i.e. 135 to 225 to 315 to 405 on bigger exercises, smaller jumps on smaller ones). That sort of includes your warm-ups though, and go down in reps on your warm-ups until you hit your work set(s), then I guess it may be wrong to call that ramping… I don’t care though :slight_smile:

[quote]Anyway I don’t have lots of knowlegde about this so your comments on this and the above text by CT would be appreciate.
[/quote] I’m not fond of using small jumps if I’m doing 10 reps or so per set. Too much fatigue before you reach a good working weight, though you may actually want it that way…

CT’s ramping variant is basically the “high volume” version of what you see Ronnie Coleman etc do on the bench press. Ronnie does something similar on DB OHP or Alt. Curls or so, but that’s not my first choice for strength gains in higher rep ranges.

CT counts something like 4x12 as 4 working sets with fairly small weight jumps, while we usually just consider the last set the real work set.

Also, if you’re doing low reps, of course you won’t just go crazy with the weight-jumps either.

[quote]
By the way a learn a lot reading all your stuff here. Thank you for your time. [/quote]
Sure thing.

As 300 said, you have to figure out for yourself how exactly you like these things.
Don’t worry if you get confused though. All these methods work, just stick to one.

If you’re doing CT’s programs though, stick to the way he does it as his routines are built with people in mind who do just that.

I bet a ton of people just did 4x12 etc on a CT routine with the same weight and got mediocre results at best…

CC, if you would take time to look at -our- training.

We would love for you to make an appearance.

[quote]300andabove wrote:
joebassin wrote:

I had the feeling I would may be get the try it for yourself answer but it’s ok :slight_smile: I just never try ramping always did straight sets so its hard for me to have an idea. I would like to try ramping when I start a new program in a couple of weeks and just want to know more before I start. But may be in the end this is all just little details that do not really matter. But my questioning is more about the weight jump between the last two sets and would have like to have input from people who tried both way. Anyway I will try that stuff in the gym in 2-3 weeks. Thank you for your reply.

Everyone hates the “Do it yourself” bit :stuck_out_tongue:

Ramping is fine, obviously for bigger exercises you need more than say for lateral raises.

As for the last jump depends really on if your “awake” to jumping that high, some people need more sets to get their brain tuned into it.[/quote]

But is it also that big jump = training effect come mostly from last set while small jump = getting more from the other sets? Also C_C talked about doing two heavier sets after the top set and you get a little “strenght boost”. Would using a smaller jump between the last sets give somewhat of a similar effect? Thanks for your time and I should probably try it myself anyway :slight_smile: