Cephalic Carnage: How Do You Train?

Training Bodybuilding
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[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Holy shit I didn’t even think that would be possible, 135lb. pinwheels lol wow. This guy is pretty close DC Training/Pinwheel Curls - YouTube I think my form has been toogood lol
[/quote] That’s an old vid and I think it wasn’t taken that long after his last contest.
He could probably use the 135’s as well in the offseason. (if not back then, then he can by now) [quote]
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

If you cram all 4 lifts into 1week waves rather than the slightly slower standard frequency, then I would suggest deloading every 4th week.

If you’re doing standard 5/3/1 frequency, try deloading every other cycle… But at some point, you may have to do it more often.

I do all 4 lifts (and rows)[/quote] So you do back squat, conv. deadlift and BO rows? [quote] over 1 week so I guess I should deload every 4th week. Do you suggest deloading EVERYTHING every 4 weeks or just the 5/3/1 lifts?
[/quote]
Hmm. Depends. Not deloading the other lifts keeps piling up some systematic fatigue, but if you’re a beginner or low-intermediate, you could probably get away with it.
Thing is, trying for more weight/reps every time you train your assistance work and then deloading and re-starting the cycle basically with a higher base-weight should work really well, too…

Say, you ramp up to a top set on Board CG Presses. (assistance exercise)
You start at the high end of your target rep range and just add weight every week.
week 1 - 405x12
week 2 - 425x9-10
week 3 - 445x7
week 4 - deload
week 5 - 425x12
week 6 - 445x9
week 7 - 465x7

numbers hypothetical and you could do multiple sets or whatever the hell it is you like doing on assistance exercises.

Could also use more aggressive weight jumps.

Anyway, you get the idea.

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[quote]Stuntman Mike wrote:
I have some pretty deep polish heritage, I’m not afraid to call on a few 5th or 6th cousins to do a private op mission over to germany.
[/quote]
The polish invading Germany. Now there’s a thought.

[quote]

Watch your back every time you take a bite of a bratwurst, every sip of a beer…you never know.[/quote]
Well, good for me that I hate bratwurst with a passion and don’t drink beer at all.

:slight_smile:

343

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

I suggest you just do those pullups 4 times a week whenever you want, though perhaps not the day before a deadlift day. (are you doing 5/3/1 with it’s standard frequency of 4 workouts over 3 days per week, rotated?)

I’ve been doing all 4 workouts every week.

Just use your bodyweight until you can get non-failure sets of 10 or more. Then add weight.
At some point you’re going to be close to your old 1RM or beyond it (that would be great, of course). Might really want to terminate the cycle then though, depending on how many reps you’re getting per cluster. Probably only 1-2 or so. You’ll see.
Then you restart the whole thing but not with your bodyweight alone.
Idea is to do something like (totally simplified and all numbers hypothetical)
BWx6,… (25 reps total)
Bwx7… (25 reps total)
…
Bwx10… (25 reps total)
Bw+5x8 (25 reps total) (you may be able to increase the weight more than once per week, but be conservative imo)
…
Bw+25x2… (25 reps total or maybe just 20 if this is very close to your old 1RM)
restart cycle (can also restart early if you find that with the low reps and heavy weight you’re using your arms a lot rather than your back)
BW+10 or whatever(want to start with a higher base weight now)x12 (25 reps total)
…

So if I’m only increasing the weight 1x or so per week what do I do the other 3x? Like say the first workout of the 2nd week I now put 5lb on my and did 7,6,5,4,3 then what do I do for workouts 2-4 of that week? The same thing? Trying to get it done in less sets (so also getting closer to failure)?

Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Also, the problem may have been you eating too little

Maybe. I was coming off a cut and only eating ~2300 calories up until this Saturday where I upped it to 2700 because I started the AD. I figured that wouldn’t be a huge deal since fattyfat was doing this while cutting weight. [/quote] Yeah well, his whole routine was made up from cluster work and he didn’t train his legs at all with weights. Bit of a difference there in terms of energy-consumption and systematic fatigue. [quote]

and yes, the method has produced it’s great results on fatty (and me, to some extent) only on a higher frequency basis.

OK. I know SandBlaster over at IA’s thought this would be too much on the CNS but at the same time it clearly worked for you guys. [/quote] Hmmm, actually, cluster training done the way fatty does/did it seems to be less stressful on the cns than most other methods. No going to failure etc…

It’s more stressful on the joints and tendons rather than the cns…

However, if you’re doing deadlifts and back squats in the same week, things might get a little difficult.

What are your 5 3 1 exercises ?
(also, how much do you weigh and at what height?)

I haven’t visited IronAddicts.com in a while btw, thanks for reminding me :wink:

344

Hey C_C, it’s been a while.

I’m sure the page will be obsolete in three minutes, but if there’s any insight you have on my post on Page 20 of BOI, I’d greatly appreciate it!

Actually, here’s the post if you’d rather just respond here.

Alright guys. I really need some help/input. I think you know I wouldn’t put it here if I didn’t really need it.

I think you’re all familiar with my strange little hammie/calf-origin pain I’ve had the last few months. Remember this later.

New gym, means new machines.

[u]Full ROM Hack Squat[/u]
25 ps x 8
45+10 ps x 4
45 + 35 ps x 2
2x45 + 25 ps x 10 (Fairly easy)

[u]Leg Press Widowmaker[/u]
12x45 + 75 (615) x 19 *************************

[u]Hammie Curls[/u]
75 x 8
137.5 x 3
200 x 7

[u]DC Seated Calf Machine[/u]
25 ps x 12

*************** Okay. Now, when looking at the Widowmaker, it doesn’t look to be all that bad. Here’s a few things about this set.

1.) For the last two months or so, my ROM on these has decreased a little bit. It’s definitely not full, or too close to it. Today, with two different reps throughout the set (maybe reps 8 and 16 or something,) I went lower than my legs could handle and had to help push the weight back up with my hands on my knees. Not cool.

2.) I used a higher incline where my back lies than I’m use to at my old gym.

3.) My weird hammie issue was REALLY bugging me all day, and even some last night. I was trying to stretch it like a mad man, but to no avail, it still pained me, even when walking around.

4.) I am now doing Hacks, which I think will help put a lot of focus on my legs, because I’ve always noticed I squat with my hips mostly. Could this contribute towards leg fatigue on Widows?

5.) These had been progressing quite fine before this session - Of course, I am on a new leg press.

Okay, now all things considered, what do you think I should do with my WM Leg Presses?

I was thinking about dropping the weight moderately (maybe to 6 pps only,) and working back on getting full ROM and progressing that way.

Maybe I should use the same weight next session, but put back rest at a slightly-lessened incline?

I’m really thinking I should work on ROM, but I know this is supposed to be a quad-dominant exercise. I don’t want to say I’m only going like, five inches, hahah, but it’s definitely not “deep.” I’m using the high-and-narrow foot placement, for whatever it’s worth.

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[quote]SSC wrote:
Hey C_C, it’s been a while.

I’m sure the page will be obsolete in three minutes, but if there’s any insight you have on my post on Page 20 of BOI, I’d greatly appreciate it!

Actually, here’s the post if you’d rather just respond here.

Alright guys. I really need some help/input. I think you know I wouldn’t put it here if I didn’t really need it.

I think you’re all familiar with my strange little hammie/calf-origin pain I’ve had the last few months. Remember this later.

New gym, means new machines.

[u]Full ROM Hack Squat[/u]
25 ps x 8
45+10 ps x 4
45 + 35 ps x 2
2x45 + 25 ps x 10 (Fairly easy)

[u]Leg Press Widowmaker[/u]
12x45 + 75 (615) x 19 *************************

[u]Hammie Curls[/u]
75 x 8
137.5 x 3
200 x 7

[u]DC Seated Calf Machine[/u]
25 ps x 12

*************** Okay. Now, when looking at the Widowmaker, it doesn’t look to be all that bad. Here’s a few things about this set.

1.) For the last two months or so, my ROM on these has decreased a little bit. It’s definitely not full, or too close to it. Today, with two different reps throughout the set (maybe reps 8 and 16 or something,) I went lower than my legs could handle and had to help push the weight back up with my hands on my knees. Not cool.

2.) I used a higher incline where my back lies than I’m use to at my old gym.

3.) My weird hammie issue was REALLY bugging me all day, and even some last night. I was trying to stretch it like a mad man, but to no avail, it still pained me, even when walking around.

4.) I am now doing Hacks, which I think will help put a lot of focus on my legs, because I’ve always noticed I squat with my hips mostly. Could this contribute towards leg fatigue on Widows?

5.) These had been progressing quite fine before this session - Of course, I am on a new leg press.

Okay, now all things considered, what do you think I should do with my WM Leg Presses?

I was thinking about dropping the weight moderately (maybe to 6 pps only,) and working back on getting full ROM and progressing that way.

Maybe I should use the same weight next session, but put back rest at a slightly-lessened incline?

I’m really thinking I should work on ROM, but I know this is supposed to be a quad-dominant exercise. I don’t want to say I’m only going like, five inches, hahah, but it’s definitely not “deep.” I’m using the high-and-narrow foot placement, for whatever it’s worth.[/quote]

I’m actually not all that familiar with your hammie/calf insertion pain. You mean at or slightly above the knee or what?
Tight calves perhaps? Used to be a major issue of mine, but it never bugged me on leg presses.

I’d say stop doing all exercises that bother it (for now) and give it a rest + do stretches.
And shoot Bushidobadboy a pm and ask him about that issue… Maybe he can help.

346

SSC small suggestions to give poor Ceph a break :stuck_out_tongue:

  1. Tomorrow in the gym, go to the leg press, drop down to the VERY bottom of the motion ie your heels should go under the leg press ala. DC Calf stretch except keep it there for as long as humanly possible. More than a minute your not heavy enough just have enough of your foot on there to not fall through.

  2. I can fully attest to this video fixing peoples Squats, i thought it was a bit odd at 1st but it does wonders.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6529481301858251744

Follow how he fixes peoples Squats get someone to do it with you, should fix ALOT of issues.

Just my 2 simple pointers :slight_smile:

347

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

I do all 4 lifts (and rows) So you do back squat, conv. deadlift and BO rows?
[/quote]
Sunday- Deadlifts
Tuesday- Bench
Thursday- Chest Supported BB Row, Front Squat
Saturday- Military press

So I am doing a type of deadlift, row, and squat but rows are chest supported and squats are front squats so there is obviously much less lower back fatigue with those

[quote]
over 1 week so I guess I should deload every 4th week. Do you suggest deloading EVERYTHING every 4 weeks or just the 5/3/1 lifts?

Hmm. Depends. Not deloading the other lifts keeps piling up some systematic fatigue, but if you’re a beginner or low-intermediate, you could probably get away with it.
Thing is, trying for more weight/reps every time you train your assistance work and then deloading and re-starting the cycle basically with a higher base-weight should work really well, too…

Say, you ramp up to a top set on Board CG Presses. (assistance exercise)
You start at the high end of your target rep range and just add weight every week.
week 1 - 405x12
week 2 - 425x9-10
week 3 - 445x7
week 4 - deload
week 5 - 425x12
week 6 - 445x9
week 7 - 465x7

numbers hypothetical and you could do multiple sets or whatever the hell it is you like doing on assistance exercises.

Could also use more aggressive weight jumps.

Anyway, you get the idea. [/quote]

Would it be necessary to reset the cycle or could I just continue where I left off? For instance I’ve been adding weight, maybe losing a rep or so, moving up 1-2 reps on it the next session, adding weight the next session but maybe losing 1-2 reps, etc…

It seems like you are feeling that all work should be deloaded though and then picked back up in the 5th week unless I’m misconstruing what your saying.

348

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
OK. I know SandBlaster over at IA’s thought this would be too much on the CNS but at the same time it clearly worked for you guys. Hmmm, actually, cluster training done the way fatty does/did it seems to be less stressful on the cns than most other methods. No going to failure etc…

It’s more stressful on the joints and tendons rather than the cns…
[/quote]
Well maybe thats a problem too, like I said my reps have all been pretty close to failure. For instance when I got 4,3,3,3,2,2,2 on Sunday I at most could have gotten 1 more rep on some sets and at least half of the sets definitely could not have gotten another clean rep and with the low reps it’s definitely not like I’m 3-4 reps short of failure…like I said more like 0-1 reps. Which I guess is why I’m kind of stuck…seems like it would be easier if I could initially do 10+ reps but when I started I could only get 7 or so. Then again Fatty could only do about that many starting out as well, although there are some different circumstances

Exercises are listed in the post above, no back squats at the moment

349

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

I do all 4 lifts (and rows) So you do back squat, conv. deadlift and BO rows?

Sunday- Deadlifts
Tuesday- Bench
Thursday- Chest Supported BB Row, Front Squat
Saturday- Military press
[/quote] That’s okay then. [quote]
So I am doing a type of deadlift, row, and squat but rows are chest supported and squats are front squats so there is obviously much less lower back fatigue with those

over 1 week so I guess I should deload every 4th week. Do you suggest deloading EVERYTHING every 4 weeks or just the 5/3/1 lifts?

Hmm. Depends. Not deloading the other lifts keeps piling up some systematic fatigue, but if you’re a beginner or low-intermediate, you could probably get away with it.
Thing is, trying for more weight/reps every time you train your assistance work and then deloading and re-starting the cycle basically with a higher base-weight should work really well, too…

Say, you ramp up to a top set on Board CG Presses. (assistance exercise)
You start at the high end of your target rep range and just add weight every week.
week 1 - 405x12
week 2 - 425x9-10
week 3 - 445x7
week 4 - deload
week 5 - 425x12
week 6 - 445x9
week 7 - 465x7

numbers hypothetical and you could do multiple sets or whatever the hell it is you like doing on assistance exercises.

Could also use more aggressive weight jumps.

Anyway, you get the idea.

Would it be necessary to reset the cycle or could I just continue where I left off? For instance I’ve been adding weight, maybe losing a rep or so, moving up 1-2 reps on it the next session, adding weight the next session but maybe losing 1-2 reps, etc…

It seems like you are feeling that all work should be deloaded though and then picked back up in the 5th week unless I’m misconstruing what your saying. [/quote]

You can do it whichever way you want. My example was (if you look at the numbers) more geared towards what stronger guys would do, since it’s kind of difficult to make continuous linear progress at that point.

If you want to pick up where you left off, ok, do that.

350

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

Well maybe thats a problem too, like I said my reps have all been pretty close to failure. For instance when I got 4,3,3,3,2,2,2 on Sunday I at most could have gotten 1 more rep on some sets and at least half of the sets definitely could not have gotten another clean rep and with the low reps it’s definitely not like I’m 3-4 reps short of failure…like I said more like 0-1 reps. Which I guess is why I’m kind of stuck…seems like it would be easier if I could initially do 10+ reps but when I started I could only get 7 or so. Then again Fatty could only do about that many starting out as well, although there are some different circumstances
[/quote] a rep in the tank is okay. [quote]

However, if you’re doing deadlifts and back squats in the same week, things might get a little difficult.

What are your 5 3 1 exercises ?

Exercises are listed in the post above, no back squats at the moment
[/quote]

351

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
pumped340 wrote:

Well maybe thats a problem too, like I said my reps have all been pretty close to failure. For instance when I got 4,3,3,3,2,2,2 on Sunday I at most could have gotten 1 more rep on some sets and at least half of the sets definitely could not have gotten another clean rep and with the low reps it’s definitely not like I’m 3-4 reps short of failure…like I said more like 0-1 reps. Which I guess is why I’m kind of stuck…seems like it would be easier if I could initially do 10+ reps but when I started I could only get 7 or so. Then again Fatty could only do about that many starting out as well, although there are some different circumstances

a rep in the tank is okay.

[/quote]

So I should end at a point where I could get one more rep? How would that relate for when I restart with just my bodyweight? For instance If I get 7,6,5,5,2 the first time to hit 25 reps and then the next session I could only improve that if I got 1 rep short of failing and wouldn’t even be able to get 1 more?

I guess it’s splitting hairs, it just seems like the main progress would only be had if I was pushing hard, even if thats without actually failing…but thats still extremely hard considering your still pushing as hard as possible, just not actually failing to get the rep.

F*ck I hate how some people consider failure as actually failing while others think about it as just barely getting the last rep. Makes it hard to explain what I’m thinking :confused:

352

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

I guess it’s splitting hairs,
[/quote]

…

Just try it out for god’s sake, see what works for YOU, as good and i do admit the man is a genius with getting people to add muscle, he DOESN’T own a crystal ball to see exactly what you need.

So get in the gym try it out, what works keep what doesn’t dump.

Side note not just for you Pumped: Feel sorry for poor Ceph lol the man spends on average 3-4 hours a DAY answering people’s questions and trying out stuff for others that he completely forgets about himself in his attempt to please people, he is THAT nice a guy as has been noted many times but from what i can see this is being taken advantage of.

Chill out with the questions, there’s only so much he can answer at any one time, keep on flooding questions and he will more than likely tire and just give up answering… think Prof. X already noted it to.

He is only human so relax, your turning coming to this site into WORK for the poor guy… CT gets all the free Biotest stuff he needs for answering probably LESS than Ceph does… Ceph gets nothing but the odd thank you. So again RELAX with the frigging Inquisitions.

/Rant over

353

[quote]300andabove wrote:
pumped340 wrote:

I guess it’s splitting hairs,

…

Just try it out for god’s sake, see what works for YOU, as good and i do admit the man is a genius with getting people to add muscle, he DOESN’T own a crystal ball to see exactly what you need.

So get in the gym try it out, what works keep what doesn’t dump.

Side note not just for you Pumped: Feel sorry for poor Ceph lol the man spends on average 3-4 hours a DAY answering people’s questions and trying out stuff for others that he completely forgets about himself in his attempt to please people, he is THAT nice a guy as has been noted many times but from what i can see this is being taken advantage of.

Chill out with the questions, there’s only so much he can answer at any one time, keep on flooding questions and he will more than likely tire and just give up answering… think Prof. X already noted it to.

He is only human so relax, your turning coming to this site into WORK for the poor guy… CT gets all the free Biotest stuff he needs for answering probably LESS than Ceph does… Ceph gets nothing but the odd thank you. So again RELAX with the frigging Inquisitions.

/Rant over
[/quote]

  1. I haven’t asked him anything in a while, yesterday I brought this topic up because it is something I’ve talked to him about in the past and since yesterday it’s just been back and forth between me asking questions, him answering and asking questions about details, me answering and having more questions etc…

  2. At the same time, I agree he’s extremely nice to help out around here as much as he does and is definitely one of the most helpful people on this site (or really any other site I’ve seen). I’m not trying to be annoying or anything and I really appreciate him answering peoples questions, I was just trying to get some clarification.

Sorry C_C if the questions have been a little much lately

354

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I’m actually not all that familiar with your hammie/calf insertion pain. You mean at or slightly above the knee or what?
Tight calves perhaps? Used to be a major issue of mine, but it never bugged me on leg presses.[/quote]

It’s pretty strange, I think it’s more of a tightness issue, but it’s hard to be sure. Five or so months ago I had a hammie issue on what I believed was my Biceps Femoris. Anyway, it got resolved, but for the last few months I’ll get a strange dull pain in my calves. It could be anywhere. It could be on the anterior side and wrap around my calf, it could be up near my hammies, who knows.

Wierd thing, is it just comes and goes, kind of the like the forearm pain we talked about one time (that happens during EZ Curls.)

I did legs yesterday, and it was very bothersome. No pain today, though. Guess I just need to keep stretching more consistently.

Yeah, I’m thinking. And I’ve been trying to do that. Josh had a recommendation in BOI about switching the leg press Widowmakers to Hack Squat WMs, I’m really liking that idea, so I think I’m going to give it a go.

355

Did you get my PM, C_C?

356

[quote]Gaius Octavius wrote:
Did you get my PM, C_C?[/quote]

My pm’s/hub have been disabled.

357

[quote]300andabove wrote:
pumped340 wrote:

I guess it’s splitting hairs,

…

Just try it out for god’s sake, see what works for YOU, as good and i do admit the man is a genius with getting people to add muscle, he DOESN’T own a crystal ball to see exactly what you need.

So get in the gym try it out, what works keep what doesn’t dump.

Side note not just for you Pumped: Feel sorry for poor Ceph lol the man spends on average 3-4 hours a DAY answering people’s questions and trying out stuff for others that he completely forgets about himself in his attempt to please people, he is THAT nice a guy as has been noted many times but from what i can see this is being taken advantage of.

Chill out with the questions, there’s only so much he can answer at any one time, keep on flooding questions and he will more than likely tire and just give up answering… think Prof. X already noted it to.

He is only human so relax, your turning coming to this site into WORK for the poor guy… CT gets all the free Biotest stuff he needs for answering probably LESS[/quote] Oh, well, now you’re pushing it lol [quote] than Ceph does… Ceph gets nothing but the odd thank you. So again RELAX with the frigging Inquisitions.

/Rant over
[/quote]

My, my.
I’d be flattered and all, but I really think you just want me to have more time available for paying attention to you :wink:

On another note, I’m curious as to pumped340’s training history and numbers. I mean, you’ve been asking about every single little method and whatnot, I’m a little afraid that you keep changing your approach every single time you read something new… Just make sure you actually make some real tangible progress man.

358

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
300andabove wrote:
pumped340 wrote:

I guess it’s splitting hairs,

…

Just try it out for god’s sake, see what works for YOU, as good and i do admit the man is a genius with getting people to add muscle, he DOESN’T own a crystal ball to see exactly what you need.

So get in the gym try it out, what works keep what doesn’t dump.

Side note not just for you Pumped: Feel sorry for poor Ceph lol the man spends on average 3-4 hours a DAY answering people’s questions and trying out stuff for others that he completely forgets about himself in his attempt to please people, he is THAT nice a guy as has been noted many times but from what i can see this is being taken advantage of.

Chill out with the questions, there’s only so much he can answer at any one time, keep on flooding questions and he will more than likely tire and just give up answering… think Prof. X already noted it to.

He is only human so relax, your turning coming to this site into WORK for the poor guy… CT gets all the free Biotest stuff he needs for answering probably LESS than Ceph does… Ceph gets nothing but the odd thank you. So again RELAX with the frigging Inquisitions.

/Rant over

  1. I haven’t asked him anything in a while, yesterday I brought this topic up because it is something I’ve talked to him about in the past and since yesterday it’s just been back and forth between me asking questions, him answering and asking questions about details, me answering and having more questions etc…

  2. At the same time, I agree he’s extremely nice to help out around here as much as he does and is definitely one of the most helpful people on this site (or really any other site I’ve seen). I’m not trying to be annoying or anything and I really appreciate him answering peoples questions, I was just trying to get some clarification.

Sorry C_C if the questions have been a little much lately[/quote] ← don’t worry. As long as your numbers are going up while you’re asking all those questions, I’m perfectly content with answering them :slight_smile:

359

No just when you said in the BOI yesterday that you been to busy, i took a look at your posts lol a bit overboard with all the friggin questions.

Any plans what your going to do for YOURSELF or do i have to put you on Waterbury’s stuff. You’ll be 400lbs in no time :stuck_out_tongue:

And Pumped i DID say it was not all directed at you, but when i was here before you were hounding CT now your hounding Ceph lol there cant be THAT many questions in order to do a simple program and simple nutrition !

360

Huh. That’s strange. I guess I’ll just repost my query here then. It has to do with how to structure my 5/3/1 workouts. You had mentioned something previously about needing to know how many times I’d like to hit the gym(five times a week would be the answer to that) and what kind of frequency I’d like(I would like to give higher frequency a try).

As for what I’ve been doing for assistance work, here goes:
Squats: Front squats and leg press
Military Press: DB Incline press, Seated Laterals, pullups
DL:Kroc rows
BP: Close grips, Incline Barbell press, pullups
Only three sets there done to failure with those being the leg press set(widowmaker), DB Incline Press and Seated laterals(lol)
It’s kinda random and suboptimal so I was looking for some suggestions on how to improve on it. I’m also not sure on how to handle the dealoads because I don’t think I’m lifting heavy enough to warrant dealoads every few weeks.