How your traps feeling after all of those cleans? I’ve slowly been putting them (hang cleans, in my case) back in and I feel like mine are blowing up after ~4 sessions with significantly less volume and intensity than yours.
They are absolutely shot at the moment. I’m working above my head today at work and it sucks. Shoulders and upper back are just roasted right now haha.
As far as muscle growth, yeah man I think they’ve grown a bit. I haven’t been staring into the mirror lately or taking any progress photos but judging by feel, they’ve gotten bigger… As has my neck and entire upper/mid back. Whether that’s just the cleans or a combo of everything together, it’s hard to tell. Even after squats I feel sore through my arms and upper back just due to holding a brace so tight for so long.
The never ending full body ache has started to become pretty normal though. It’s like never ending DOMs, but after 11 weeks I just try to look past it. I’m getting pretty good at walking around feeling like knives are stabbing into my quads and hamstrings
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Tough SOB, again. Just thinking about 100 cleans at 145 hurts.
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I mean, it would be hard to imagine that every part of you isn’t growing right now with the weight and food you’re consuming. It might just be that I haven’t done much explosive pulling in the past few years so I’m really feeling them but I like it so far
I think I’ll do progress photos if I ever do this program, although 11 weeks of DOMs and back soreness from squatting are not the best selling points lol
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Yeah man it definitely seems as though that’s the case. I personally have never done any sort of clean (which is obvious from my form) but I can see them becoming a regular part of my training. Are you using them as a muscle.building movement or just another lift to get stronger with?
I sort of did progress photos and I think it’s a good idea to do that as well. The Transformation challenge thing started just as I was wrapping up Pervertor, which is when I took the pictures. I’m pretty much attributing any and all muscular gains to deepwater at this point though. 531 was a very slow and steady thing for me when it came to building muscle, almost to the point of being not noticable unless looked at over a very long time frame. Deepwater was almost instantaneously noticable, which hasn’t ever happened to me before. Just moving through space felt differently and I’ve had multiple people say I look bigger. Whether that’s muscular or just flat out weight gained, I’m not sure and honestly I don’t really care because my lifts have gone up this whole time, which is what I was hoping would be the outcome.
I may be seeming to give this program a bad reputation by complaining, but I’m just being honest haha. I’m obviously doing this program for results and not just to test my mettle, although it is a cool side perk. The program, from day one, sucks. Every time Friday rolls around, I’m no longer excited because it means its time to do squats or deadlifts. My brain has come.up with reasons for me to quit every single time I go back to lift, but, maybe I’m just over reacting.
Whether or not it’s worth it in the end is probably up to the lifter and how much they put into it (and how much food they can cram into their mouth).
Edit:sorry for such a long reply
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It’s absolutely nuts. What’s crazy too is that it just “leaves it’s mark”. Those gains don’t go away, no matter how far away you get from Deep Water. It really changes you.
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Little column A, little column B. I primarly like them as an athletic movement, I don’t do enough explosive activity in my life (especially since Covid) or lifting, the cleans force me to do that. The muscle building and conditioning are bonuses.
That’s the best!
Not at all, you are just writing what is happening. I feel like you are giving it the reputation that it already has, a program of misery, but from the writeups I’ve seen about it that doesn’t make the program bad, if anything the opposite.
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Yeah dude, that initial spike of volume just immediately did something to me. I haven’t noticed it as much the past 5-6 weeks but one thing I have been seeing is increased vascularity in my arms. I’m assuming it’s just due to losing a bit of fat… Hopefully my legs and shoulders aren’t too far behind!
Also, good to know it lasts. That is awesome. Like I said before, I’m excited to take what I’ve learned with this program and apply it elsewhere.
Makes sense to me, man. They’re a pretty cool full body movement that you can scale any way you want, it seems.
I guess you’re right. That is the entire goal of the program… learn to swim.
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Deepwater Intermediate
W5D4
Flat Bench 3x10 at 175lb, 3 min rest
CGBP 3x10 at 155, 3 min rest
Incline press 3x10 at 135lb, 3 min rest
Dips 14, 9, 7.5
Planks and sit ups
Got all of the 3x10s. The last two of the 3rd set of each was the closest I’ve come to failure, without actually failing. The last flat bench set was stalled 4-5" from lockout for what seemed like forever, but I got it. Similar with CGBP, incline for some reason moved really well.
My elbows and shoulders were not happy with dips today, though. Going to hit the therabar tonight for a little bit, and maybe again on wed or Thurs.
Food was spot on today, even though work was busy.
AM
Milk and protein
4 eggs
6 slices bacon
Lunch
Assorted chicken pieces
Peanut butter
Snack
Peanut butter
Milk and protein
Post workout
Milk and protein
Dinner
2 strip steaks
3 pieces bacon
Two large spring mix salads with blue cheese (only one picture because my salads are not very photogenic)
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I was just thinking I had read more than twenty posts and haven’t seen any food and then you deliver with steak and bacon. Very nice indeed sir.
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Thanks man!
I haven’t really been branching out too far from my normal diet, pretty boring stuff. Although I did get a flat iron steak for this week, and am planning on doing another flank as well. I still have some short ribs I have to use up but I need the time and planning to cook them. I’ll be sure to put up some pics of the more diverse cuts.
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Did a bit of thinking over the weekend/past couple days about where I want my lifting to be focused for the near future.
Throughout deepwater I’ve surprised myself at my ability to recover between sets. I really do enjoy lifting within time constraints, which is one thing I personally liked about running isdatnuttys program (whether or not he was the right person to listen to, I don’t know and honestly don’t care). I like the idea of getting stronger at movements while improving my work capacity, being able to eat like crazy and lean out at the same time.
I ended up purchasing brian alsruhe’s 12 week powerbuilder program and have been thumbing through it little by little the past couple of days. It looks intense conditioning-wise, and with the giant sets I can see it being intense as far as being able to move the weight on the bar, too. Lots of unconventional movements and variations to play with.
I’m sort of at a crossroads right now. Do I continue shooting for weight on the bar as my one metric of strength/progress? Or do I start adding in other facets of “fitness” to become more athletic overall?
My main goal from day one has been to get strong as fuck, and while I’m not even close to where I would like to be, I think a program like this has its place in my journey. It may not be the direct route to the numbers I want, but if I improve in other ways (body comp, hypertrophy, conditioning, mental fortitude) it may make it easier for me to make greater leaps in strength when I get back on a strength focused program.
One week left of deepwater Intermediate, then straight into the modified advanced program and calorie restriction, a week off for fun in the sun, then right back into it mid may to begin a 12 week block of powerbuilder. Sounds like a plan.
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Looking forward to seeing how the powerbuilder program goes for you. I been a long time fan of brian.
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Thanks man, I kind of like going outside of my comfort zone and both deepwater and powerbuilder are totally out of my normal mindset of more weight=better. The more I think about it, the more I feel like I’m actually “building a base” right now to achieve greater strength gains in the future.
I’m also a huge fan of his. Love his videos and interviews, and he seems like an all around good guy who is willing to help everyone. I was more than happy to spend $25 on a 50-something page e book.
I seem to see a lot of parallels between what he and @T3hPwnisher do as far as determination and just plain hard work. It obviously works if someone is willing to put themselves through what they do. Additionally, if pwn was willing to write up a program, I’d pay for that too. So much knowledge and advice just given away for free.
Also, pwn, I’ve been eyeballing a special from titan fitness. A 10" rackable log… I haven’t pulled the trigger on it because I don’t know if I’m ready for it. I want to get better at pressing overhead and I figure the more variation I can get, the better. Have you seen much carry-over from log pressing to BB pressing?
I think I’d use it for conditioning as well during powerbuilder
Edit: and i might as well add in @carlbm @Koestrizer to weigh in on this too, if they don’t mind
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I appreciate that man, but I’m no coach. I know how to write up what works for ME, but what works for others is a whole new ballgame.
For the log, I’d honestly go 12" and wait on availability there, or get a pitbull one. The larger diameter is really a key part of the log. I enjoy having one for my training, but the axle features far more regularly. If my axle press goes up, so does my log. If my log press goes up, my axle doesn’t necessarily. However, the log viper press is SUCH a great movement in and of itself that it’s worth training just to develop that explosiveness and strength, and it slots in VERY well for conditioning.
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Here to 2nd the axle, I’ve used a log like once so I can’t speak to that but I love pressing with the axle, been probably my favorite single purchase so far.
Have you ever tried pressing a trap bar @T3hPwnisher? I assume there are some similarities to a log but also assume that the differing weight distribution means it’s pretty unique from it.
The 12" one is like $40 more.
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Trap bar pressing was a regular feature in my training when I hit my biggest press. Big fan of it. Not similar to a log in my experience: more like DB pressing
Interesting, I tried it somewhat fatigued last week and the level of stabilization needed was significantly higher than I had expected, more than I liked, tbh. Can imagine it would be a helpful addition though, might have to give it another shot.
EDIT: I should really get a log considering my username, should probably just go full strongman.
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Awesome, thanks guys. I have a shitload of 1 1/2" sched 40 black steel pipe kicking around from work so an axle would be an extremely easy and cheap addition. I might make that this weekend and see if I can get some stands up in my garage. Depending on the finish of the pipe I have I may have to wait. A lot of pipe sent from over seas has a shitty plastic-coated finish on it, which has gone into my hands before. Not good for repeated and prolonged friction on the hands.
As far as the log is concerned I’m probably going to bite the bullet and order it as a “happy last week of deepwater”. I know I’ll make frequent use of it. Specifically for conditioning and, honestly, because log pressing is cool as hell and something I’d like to be good at.
Yeah, I can understand why you’d rather not do that then.
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Firstly - I never saw this guy give bad advice. Whether it was advice he lived and breathed so it was “his” to give is immaterial. Sure if he was lying about himself that’s a dick move. But as for if you should follow his advice I would. It was always “sound”.
Thanks for the tag. Whats the question. You covered loads of ground lol. If its about “base building” I think this is a good thing. One that I’ve gone through a bit over Christmas. My coach had me drop 90% of the heavy work and hit volume, volume, volume. Its worked for me. I was worried about a loss in strength. But that’t not happened. and I’m really gaining strength a fast right now.
If its about the log I will say this - log is great. When people talk about “if you could only do one exercise” I would go log clean and press. If you have the funds its a great addition.
I can;t add to whats PWN has said. It is also (as you say) just cool as hell.
As for the axle - again great. It takes some getting used to. The lack of bar bounce and different bar position took me 4-5 weeks to get over. But its worth it. Noting being able to hitch the bar as there is no bounce really means you have to keep the bar moving quickly in the lifts. There is not help. ITs so unforgiving.
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