[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
my bread and butter for size was Db fly. It takes some serious Pec recruitment to be able to fly triple digit dbs past parallel to the floor.[/quote]
whaaaaaaaaaa? You do DB Flys with the 100+lb DB’s??? Beast mode
.greg.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
my bread and butter for size was Db fly. It takes some serious Pec recruitment to be able to fly triple digit dbs past parallel to the floor.[/quote]
whaaaaaaaaaa? You do DB Flys with the 100+lb DB’s??? Beast mode
.greg.[/quote]
I never really see many people go over 100lb for these, but I would imagine a lot of stronger guys could do it. I don’t do them that often but my skinny 170lb cousin can rep the 70’s on an incline with pretty good form after benching.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Rack chin example approved by Dante on how he wants them done.
thogue, they are another exercise entirely.[/quote]
Ok so im watching videos of these rack chins and am desperate to get in the gym and try them tomorrow. The reason being because I just cannot understand how they can be more effective or harder an exercise for lat width than regular wide grip chins, provided the chins are done with adequate form of course. If anyone can actually explain why then great, either way I will be testing these asap.
[quote]gregron wrote:
whaaaaaaaaaa? You do DB Flys with the 100+lb DB’s??? Beast mode
.greg.[/quote]
You forget,… he’s the last surviving son of Kypton -lol.
S
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
my bread and butter for size was Db fly. It takes some serious Pec recruitment to be able to fly triple digit dbs past parallel to the floor.[/quote]
whaaaaaaaaaa? You do DB Flys with the 100+lb DB’s??? Beast mode
.greg.[/quote]
I never really see many people go over 100lb for these, but I would imagine a lot of stronger guys could do it. I don’t do them that often but my skinny 170lb cousin can rep the 70’s on an incline with pretty good form after benching. [/quote]
You guys are probably thinking of those BS flyes as described in books etc (arms almost or totally straight and so on). In practice, people usually do them as a hybrid between a fly and a press with a neutral grip.
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Rack chin example approved by Dante on how he wants them done.
thogue, they are another exercise entirely.[/quote]
Ok so im watching videos of these rack chins and am desperate to get in the gym and try them tomorrow. The reason being because I just cannot understand how they can be more effective or harder an exercise for lat width than regular wide grip chins, provided the chins are done with adequate form of course. If anyone can actually explain why then great, either way I will be testing these asap.[/quote]
You won’t need to ask after you do them, if you do them right.
My flys arent press flys. Slight bend at the elbow, down to parallel with the floor (with the heavier weights, witht he lighter ones i try to dip a little deeper), and come up, leaving about a 10-15inch gap between the DBs at the top. I said it in my Chest thread, touching the dbs when doing flys is a waste in my eyes.
And yes, i half Kryptonian…other half Saiyan…
*sigh im a nerd…
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
And yes, i half Kryptonian…other half Saiyan…
*sigh im a nerd…[/quote]
LOL, I was never into any other anime type shows but if I ever see DBZ is on while I’m working out (working out in my basement for now) I just leave it on. Some motivating scenes 
Live4Deadlift, I’d say the biggest difference is how much better progression seems to be compared to a normal pull up. For me anyway.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
And yes, i half Kryptonian…other half Saiyan…
*sigh im a nerd…[/quote]
LOL, I was never into any other anime type shows but if I ever see DBZ is on while I’m working out (working out in my basement for now) I just leave it on. Some motivating scenes
Live4Deadlift, I’d say the biggest difference is how much better progression seems to be compared to a normal pull up. For me anyway. [/quote]
So it is easier to get better at than pullups? If that is the case then it kind of negates the exercise in comparison dont you think? I am excellent at wide grip chins and pullups, I can generally add at least 30kg to BW and still perform 8+ reps for 4 sets consistently. However I am trying to withhold judgment on rack chins before I try them, H$M is a fan and his back is a parachute.
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
And yes, i half Kryptonian…other half Saiyan…
*sigh im a nerd…[/quote]
LOL, I was never into any other anime type shows but if I ever see DBZ is on while I’m working out (working out in my basement for now) I just leave it on. Some motivating scenes
Live4Deadlift, I’d say the biggest difference is how much better progression seems to be compared to a normal pull up. For me anyway. [/quote]
So it is easier to get better at than pullups? If that is the case then it kind of negates the exercise in comparison dont you think? I am excellent at wide grip chins and pullups, I can generally add at least 30kg to BW and still perform 8+ reps for 4 sets consistently. However I am trying to withhold judgment on rack chins before I try them, H$M is a fan and his back is a parachute.
[/quote]
Seriously man, just give them a try, you won’t be disappointed at all. The reason, as far as I can figure, is twofold:
-
With rack chins, your body isn’t vertical to the ground, it’s around a 70 degree angle or so to it. Your lats don’t JUST pull down, they help pulling things back somewhat also…so rack chins “more fully” involve, them you could say.
-
Rack chins take kipping and body English out of the equation for the most part, forcing you to focus on the target muscles.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Conv. Deadlift in my case. Held me back for years, and I cannot get into the bottom position without rounding the lower back then, no matter what. My legs get in the way of my pelvis or something, or my hip joints aren’t made for it, I dunno… I can get down just fine and with an arched lower back if I get my legs out of the way via. semi-sumo or full sumo (but the latter is too hard on the hips again) stance.
[/quote]
I’m definitely the same as you in this regard. Going to be rocking the semi sumo with full force next week and probably won’t be going back… Doesn’t matter how much I work on form with my conv DL it just doesn’t work for me that way, I round every time.
Luckily I’m able to do some cross/BB style wide grip benching with no problems as well as regular military presses.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I think pretty much all BBers did them early on. Once you get a better idea of your body/leverages/weaknesses they lose some of the benefit in a routine and many times variations and isolation movements become better suited to needs.[/quote]
Yeah, always preferred variations of the basics… Even when it comes to smaller movements.
[/quote]
It’s even true for powerlifters. The game slowly transitions from just building strength to addressing weaknesses. I’ve been slowly doing less and less of the straight up big 3.[/quote]
That, and, depending on structure etc, sometimes the basic variants of the big three do more harm than good…
Conv. Deadlift in my case. Held me back for years, and I cannot get into the bottom position without rounding the lower back then, no matter what. My legs get in the way of my pelvis or something, or my hip joints aren’t made for it, I dunno… I can get down just fine and with an arched lower back if I get my legs out of the way via. semi-sumo or full sumo (but the latter is too hard on the hips again) stance.
Regular flat bench bothers my shoulders… So a closer grip it is, and obviously proper setup with shoulder blades tucked and staying tight all over etc. Can’t do the bodybuilder version at all (elbows flared all the way, wide grip).
Or, hell, even conventional standing mil press. The way I’m built (forearm length, shoulder width etc I guess) simply makes it impossible to comfortably press from the clavicles, no matter what all the gurus say about how it’s the king of all shoulder exercises (bullshit anyway… Better exercises both for powerlifting assitance and bodybuilding out there in terms of injury risk/prevention AND progression/weight used) and how you must do it full ROM and whatever.
[/quote]
My shoulders are the exact same. I have had to switch to a closer grip the last couple of years to help my shoulders. I also do Floor press and weighted pushups which I find easier on my shoulders when training chest.
What exercises do you use for your shoulders in place of the military press?
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Rack chin example approved by Dante on how he wants them done.
thogue, they are another exercise entirely.[/quote]
Ok so im watching videos of these rack chins and am desperate to get in the gym and try them tomorrow. The reason being because I just cannot understand how they can be more effective or harder an exercise for lat width than regular wide grip chins, provided the chins are done with adequate form of course. If anyone can actually explain why then great, either way I will be testing these asap.[/quote]
I have little experience in the gym, so someone correct me if im wrong, but I always saw rack chins superior to WG Pullups because the resemble the “lean away chin” that Gironda preached as the ‘best’ lat builder, due to the angle of the pull. Rack chins are basically the same movement, only with the added benefit of being able to add weight and progress easier
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
And yes, i half Kryptonian…other half Saiyan…
*sigh im a nerd…[/quote]
LOL, I was never into any other anime type shows but if I ever see DBZ is on while I’m working out (working out in my basement for now) I just leave it on. Some motivating scenes
Live4Deadlift, I’d say the biggest difference is how much better progression seems to be compared to a normal pull up. For me anyway. [/quote]
So it is easier to get better at than pullups? If that is the case then it kind of negates the exercise in comparison dont you think? I am excellent at wide grip chins and pullups, I can generally add at least 30kg to BW and still perform 8+ reps for 4 sets consistently. However I am trying to withhold judgment on rack chins before I try them, H$M is a fan and his back is a parachute.
[/quote]
Seriously man, just give them a try, you won’t be disappointed at all. The reason, as far as I can figure, is twofold:
-
With rack chins, your body isn’t vertical to the ground, it’s around a 70 degree angle or so to it. Your lats don’t JUST pull down, they help pulling things back somewhat also…so rack chins “more fully” involve, them you could say.
-
Rack chins take kipping and body English out of the equation for the most part, forcing you to focus on the target muscles. [/quote]
Ok so I also set this up in the smith machine and with my feet propped up at about waist height. Wow, pretty much as you said Hungry a very humbling exercise. I only performed sets with BW to adjust to the angles and managed about 12 for two sets and then just 9 for the second two.
There definitely seemed to be fairly big differences to the feel of the movement compared to WGchins, mainly because the ROM keeps constant tension on the lats I think. Also the movement plane of the exercise means that it is important to keep tempo strict in the negative and explosive in the lift. Either way the pump i got was great and my lats will be screaming from these for sure.
Thanks for the tips, this will be a staple in my upper back workouts now for sure.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Rack chin example approved by Dante on how he wants them done.
thogue, they are another exercise entirely.[/quote]
Ok so im watching videos of these rack chins and am desperate to get in the gym and try them tomorrow. The reason being because I just cannot understand how they can be more effective or harder an exercise for lat width than regular wide grip chins, provided the chins are done with adequate form of course. If anyone can actually explain why then great, either way I will be testing these asap.[/quote]
I have little experience in the gym, so someone correct me if im wrong, but I always saw rack chins superior to WG Pullups because the resemble the “lean away chin” that Gironda preached as the ‘best’ lat builder, due to the angle of the pull. Rack chins are basically the same movement, only with the added benefit of being able to add weight and progress easier[/quote]
Good point on the lean away chin aspect of the exercise, however I would dipsute that they are superior. In fact I have progressed so much on regular chins that finding out something else is superior to them would be like finding out i was adopted, or that my girlfriend used to be a man or something equally horrendous. Different not superior I tell you!
Also Im not sure they are actually ideal for new trainees and that people should develop strength through regular chins beforehand. I say this because a friend in the gym tried them after me and with his feet being propped he was constantly trying to “spot” himself with his legs in order to decrease the load in the lift. Habits like that would reduce any perceived progression on the movement.
For the ones that do deadlifts and got responses from them(Bigger back muscles), did you ever feel it in your upper back? When ever I deadlift its my lower back and glutes that feel fatigued after, not my upper back.
Two weeks ago I was stuck around 315 max deadlift, then I started mix gripping and using chalk now I got 405x1 but still only feel it in my glutes and lower back. I plan on keeping them in bec I’m sure I can get to 500 this year now that my grip isnt the problem.
[quote]KTranman wrote:
For the ones that do deadlifts and got responses from them(Bigger back muscles), did you ever feel it in your upper back? When ever I deadlift its my lower back and glutes that feel fatigued after, not my upper back.
Two weeks ago I was stuck around 315 max deadlift, then I started mix gripping and using chalk now I got 405x1 but still only feel it in my glutes and lower back. I plan on keeping them in bec I’m sure I can get to 500 this year now that my grip isnt the problem.[/quote]
People that get significant upper back growth from deadlifts are few and far between. You should be relying on staple width and thickness movements for that…BB and DB rows, Pendlay rows, Rack chins, pullup variations, all that stuff.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]KTranman wrote:
For the ones that do deadlifts and got responses from them(Bigger back muscles), did you ever feel it in your upper back? When ever I deadlift its my lower back and glutes that feel fatigued after, not my upper back.
Two weeks ago I was stuck around 315 max deadlift, then I started mix gripping and using chalk now I got 405x1 but still only feel it in my glutes and lower back. I plan on keeping them in bec I’m sure I can get to 500 this year now that my grip isnt the problem.[/quote]
People that get significant upper back growth from deadlifts are few and far between. You should be relying on staple width and thickness movements for that…BB and DB rows, Pendlay rows, Rack chins, pullup variations, all that stuff. [/quote]
I wonder why so many people talk about them being so great for back thickness then
Heavy Rack Pulls for medium to high reps with scap retraction after each lockout > Deadlifts for upper back thickness…
Also… Deadlifting 315-405 is baby weight in the grand scheme of things… You’ll have to put up much more weight, and preferably for a few reps, in order to see any real results in the upper back…
[quote]David1991 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]KTranman wrote:
For the ones that do deadlifts and got responses from them(Bigger back muscles), did you ever feel it in your upper back? When ever I deadlift its my lower back and glutes that feel fatigued after, not my upper back.
Two weeks ago I was stuck around 315 max deadlift, then I started mix gripping and using chalk now I got 405x1 but still only feel it in my glutes and lower back. I plan on keeping them in bec I’m sure I can get to 500 this year now that my grip isnt the problem.[/quote]
People that get significant upper back growth from deadlifts are few and far between. You should be relying on staple width and thickness movements for that…BB and DB rows, Pendlay rows, Rack chins, pullup variations, all that stuff. [/quote]
I wonder why so many people talk about them being so great for back thickness then[/quote]
Well, h4m said upper back thickness, for me, DLs really hit my lower back thickness well.