[quote]Sephardi wrote:
What do you feel about free weight pullovers Stu?[/quote]
I’ve never really been a big fan. Yes, I agree that the stretch portion of the ROM can target your back muscles, and yes I agree that the top portion of the ROM can simulate the lower pecs (almost like a low decline db press), but in my opinion, there are much better exercises that would address both issues.
I have always liked the old Nautilus pullover machine (they had one back at the NYU gym when I was in grad school and I used to use that before close grip chins, as a pre-exhaust), and have been incorporating straight arm pressdowns with a rope for the last year or so (which I attribute a lot of my mid back detail to).
It’s certainly not something that I’d get into any heated arguments about though. People seem to be pretty adamant about their opinions, and I have yet to convince anyone the error of their ways, so I just don’t bother.
Is it just me or do most here not really do pull ups all that often? I could be wrong but it doesn’t seem like something a lot of people on this site do other than maybe as a warm up for the workout.
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Something I’ve noticed over the years, is that it just seems easier for most trainees to develop some type of V-Taper than it is to build up any degree of back thickness. That was one of the reasons I focused so much on rowing movements when I was in college, it just seemed like it would take many more years to get progress in that area, so I’d better start working ASAP (Yates was also the new Mr. O, and obviously I took a great deal of inspiration from the man).
Also, most males are naturally wider on top (across their shoulders) than their hips (even if you do have ‘wide’ hip bones), so it doesn’t really take much to have a noticeable Taper (by ‘normal’ standards anyway).
Is it just me or do most here not really do pull ups all that often? I could be wrong but it doesn’t seem like something a lot of people on this site do other than maybe as a warm up for the workout.
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Something I’ve noticed over the years, is that it just seems easier for most trainees to develop some type of V-Taper than it is to build up any degree of back thickness. That was one of the reasons I focused so much on rowing movements when I was in college, it just seemed like it would take many more years to get progress in that area, so I’d better start working ASAP (Yates was also the new Mr. O, and obviously I took a great deal of inspiration from the man).
Also, most males are naturally wider on top (across their shoulders) than their hips (even if you do have ‘wide’ hip bones), so it doesn’t really take much to have a noticeable Taper (by ‘normal’ standards anyway).
S
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That may be true but it’s not like they don’t do vertical pulling. What I’m saying is even those who do vertical pulling don’t seem to keep pull ups in for long other than as a warm up or just once it a while to see how it goes.
Not that there’s anything wrong with pull downs (I really like the close grip v-handle variation) it just seems like in the past I would always read about how great pull ups are and how they’re the “upper body squat” and whatnot.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
Im gonna agree with Stu and how the “Big 3” affected me. Hell, i dont deadlift most of the time period. When it comes to chest, i think my bread and butter for size was Db fly. It takes some serious Pec recruitment to be able to fly triple digit dbs past parallel to the floor.
Looking at the squat, i am glad that i started properly using it, but if i was to focus on 2 isolation movements that targeted your hams and quads, id have to say Elevated Front Squats for quads, and Weighted lunges for hams/glutes (when you really put some length in your stride and drop down to the floor, you wreck your hams/glutes to the point where sitting the next day hurts lol)[/quote]
does elevating your heel activate more quad? I will have to try it out. Yeah I love lunges. I was never including any single leg work in my training. Was just doing squats/leg press and leg extensions/curls. Ever since using single leg work because of a back problem my legs have gained a noticeable amount of size. They went from my worst to best body part.
Bret Contreras made a comment about a lot of people neglecting the adductors which get worked strongly with single leg movements. They are nearly one third of your upper leg and I think they can make a huge difference in leg size when trained. Not to mention your hammies and glutes getting a beating!
Start each rep from a dead stop on the ground, row into your belly. Using some “heave” to get some momentum off the ground is ok as you start using heavier weights (aka 3 plates and above). Let the bar rest for a brief moment on the ground before starting the next rep…this is NOT a “touch-n-go” exercise. Focus on each rep as an individual rep, not just a part of the set.
Rack Chins:
I set up in the smith machine, so I don’t have to deal with the bar rotating. With the bar around chest level, I set up a bench on an incline so it comes to around belly button level. Torso is mostly vertical throughout the movement, maybe a 70-80 degree angle.
I don’t use a lot of weight on these, I focus instead on feel primarily, and SLOW weight progression. Some days working sets will just be bodyweight, others I’ll use a DB, usually around 50-60 lbs these days, for maybe 10-14 reps. Bodyweight I typically get around 15-18 reps.
Key is the tempo with these; pull up explosively, 3 second negative, 1 second pause at the bottom before you start the next rep. If your lats aren’t raped after only 2-3 sets like this, even with bodyweight, you’re not going all out.
Partial ROM Pullup:
Heaviest I typically go on these is strapping on a 45 lb plate, then sometimes a “burnout” set after a weighted set. Focus here is constant tension. You’re only doing the middle part of the rep. Never lock out at the bottom, but never go all the way up either, just the middle 60-70% of the movement, as many reps as possible, simple as that. Try to keep a rhythm going up and down, don’t DROP down from the top of the reps, or you lose tension.
Elevated front squats is where i place 35lb plates under my heels and perform squats. This will put you up on your toes, and yes allow for more quad activation.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
…Weighted lunges for hams/glutes (when you really put some length in your stride and drop down to the floor, you wreck your hams/glutes to the point where sitting the next day hurts lol)[/quote]
I’ve started doing these and am wondering if they should take a week to get over? No other exercise does this to me.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
…Weighted lunges for hams/glutes (when you really put some length in your stride and drop down to the floor, you wreck your hams/glutes to the point where sitting the next day hurts lol)[/quote]
I’ve started doing these and am wondering if they should take a week to get over? No other exercise does this to me.[/quote]
as you do them more, you wont be as sore as long. However, i personally dont do em weekly.
H4m thanks for the explanations but I am still having trouble trying to picture the Rack chins. So you put the smith machine bar at around chest level and use that as the pull up bar? Are you laying on the incline bench then just doing a partial chin up to the bar that is at chest level when standing?
[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:
H4m thanks for the explanations but I am still having trouble trying to picture the Rack chins. So you put the smith machine bar at around chest level and use that as the pull up bar? Are you laying on the incline bench then just doing a partial chin up to the bar that is at chest level when standing?[/quote]
Yeah that ^^ is pretty much how I do them, except with a brief pause at the bottom of each rep. More or less the same. He has his feet/ankles propped up on a bench or box of some sort, around waist high. Make sense?
I think pretty much all BBers did them early on. Once you get a better idea of your body/leverages/weaknesses they lose some of the benefit in a routine and many times variations and isolation movements become better suited to needs.
-CG (thumbs-length away from the outer borders of the smooth parts of the bar for me, not the bs narrow grip you see in books) bench, PL setup and execution, suicide grip. Also: Low (30-35 deg or so) incline bench, grip somewhat wider than above, suicide grip. Also like some HS machines here as prime exercises.
-Sumo Deadlift with stance just wide enough to get the quads/legs out of the way on the way down so my lower back doesn’t end up rounding (joint structure issue maybe?). Not super-wide, but I can’t do it with a conv. stance. Also: Rack Pulls. (in my case from just above the knee-cap, that’s enough ROM for me and I can go conv. stance there without rounding at the bottom… Setting up deeper requires sumo stance in my case).
-Squats and front squats with same stance as described above. Also like Hack Machine as a prime movement, possibly facing the pad, depending on the machine…
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I think pretty much all BBers did them early on. Once you get a better idea of your body/leverages/weaknesses they lose some of the benefit in a routine and many times variations and isolation movements become better suited to needs.[/quote]
Yeah, always preferred variations of the basics… Even when it comes to smaller movements.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I think pretty much all BBers did them early on. Once you get a better idea of your body/leverages/weaknesses they lose some of the benefit in a routine and many times variations and isolation movements become better suited to needs.[/quote]
Yeah, always preferred variations of the basics… Even when it comes to smaller movements.
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It’s even true for powerlifters. The game slowly transitions from just building strength to addressing weaknesses. I’ve been slowly doing less and less of the straight up big 3.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I think pretty much all BBers did them early on. Once you get a better idea of your body/leverages/weaknesses they lose some of the benefit in a routine and many times variations and isolation movements become better suited to needs.[/quote]
Yeah, always preferred variations of the basics… Even when it comes to smaller movements.
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It’s even true for powerlifters. The game slowly transitions from just building strength to addressing weaknesses. I’ve been slowly doing less and less of the straight up big 3.[/quote]
That, and, depending on structure etc, sometimes the basic variants of the big three do more harm than good…
Conv. Deadlift in my case. Held me back for years, and I cannot get into the bottom position without rounding the lower back then, no matter what. My legs get in the way of my pelvis or something, or my hip joints aren’t made for it, I dunno… I can get down just fine and with an arched lower back if I get my legs out of the way via. semi-sumo or full sumo (but the latter is too hard on the hips again) stance.
Regular flat bench bothers my shoulders… So a closer grip it is, and obviously proper setup with shoulder blades tucked and staying tight all over etc. Can’t do the bodybuilder version at all (elbows flared all the way, wide grip).
Or, hell, even conventional standing mil press. The way I’m built (forearm length, shoulder width etc I guess) simply makes it impossible to comfortably press from the clavicles, no matter what all the gurus say about how it’s the king of all shoulder exercises (bullshit anyway… Better exercises both for powerlifting assitance and bodybuilding out there in terms of injury risk/prevention AND progression/weight used) and how you must do it full ROM and whatever.
