Thanks I think it’s because I used to leg press and squat almost everyday when i was a freshman and sophmore.
CT,
I have narrow clavicles and it’s always a struggle to create the illusion of size, but I also have the problem of my lower pecs responding very well to any horzontal pressing which detracts from my width even more because of my large lower pecs.
I try and concentrate on shoulders and incline presses but the problem is I can’t get stronger and bigger on shoulders or upper pecs unless I go hard and heavy on the horizontal pressing.
Is there a way I could incorporate heavy horizontal pressing so the strenght gains carry over to my incline and overhead pressing without adding size to my lower pecs?
I have a rough idea how to do it for upper pecs but not quite sure how to incorporate horizontal pressing to activate my strength for vertical pressing. Thanks.
[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:
Any thoughts on why my squat and deadlift are reversed so to speak?[/quote]
Even with long limbs you can still have some variation. For example if your lower leg is proportionally longer than your upper leg you will normally have a better deadlift lever. If your upper leg is proportionally longer than your lower leg you normally have a better squat lever.
So someone could have a long leg, but still be ‘‘designed’’ to squat.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
^
Would someone of one structure want to train differently than the other? Specifically, I’m thinking of rest weeks and training volume, but anything you have to say on the matter would be helpful and greatly appreciated. It’s just I have long limbs, small joints, narrow clavicles and hips, people always think I weigh 10-15 lbs lighter than I actually do and so far with the powerlifting I’ve found I need more frequent rest weeks and I can’t go balls to the wall with the accessory work. Is that a function of my build and is there anything I can do about it? [/quote]
Limb lenght has more influence on the type of training used than clavicle and hip width. Longer limb individuals will need:
- More assistance exercises to progress in the squat (powerlifting)
- More assistance exercises to progress in the bench (powerlifting)
- Less assistance exercises to progress in the deadlift (powerlifting)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger biceps and triceps (bodybuilding)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger legs
- Less exercise variation to get a bigger chest
- Will not respond fast to isolation exercises for delts because of bad levers
Clavicle and hip width, basically the sturdiness or frailty of your overall skeletal structure has more influence on how long you can handle very heavy lifting without needing a dealoading phase.[/quote]
One question. I don’t mean to nitpick or anything like that, but what’s the difference between squat assistance and deadlift assistance… they’re basically the same exercises aren’t they? Like gm’s, lunges, hypers, reverse-hypers, ghr’s, etc. Do you mean like if one is built is this way and they’re doing ME deadlift variation, should they cut down on assistance exercise? And if doing ME squat variation, do more assistance?
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
^
Would someone of one structure want to train differently than the other? Specifically, I’m thinking of rest weeks and training volume, but anything you have to say on the matter would be helpful and greatly appreciated. It’s just I have long limbs, small joints, narrow clavicles and hips, people always think I weigh 10-15 lbs lighter than I actually do and so far with the powerlifting I’ve found I need more frequent rest weeks and I can’t go balls to the wall with the accessory work. Is that a function of my build and is there anything I can do about it? [/quote]
Limb lenght has more influence on the type of training used than clavicle and hip width. Longer limb individuals will need:
- More assistance exercises to progress in the squat (powerlifting)
- More assistance exercises to progress in the bench (powerlifting)
- Less assistance exercises to progress in the deadlift (powerlifting)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger biceps and triceps (bodybuilding)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger legs
- Less exercise variation to get a bigger chest
- Will not respond fast to isolation exercises for delts because of bad levers
Clavicle and hip width, basically the sturdiness or frailty of your overall skeletal structure has more influence on how long you can handle very heavy lifting without needing a dealoading phase.[/quote]
One question. I don’t mean to nitpick or anything like that, but what’s the difference between squat assistance and deadlift assistance… they’re basically the same exercises aren’t they? Like gm’s, lunges, hypers, reverse-hypers, ghr’s, etc. Do you mean like if one is built is this way and they’re doing ME deadlift variation, should they cut down on assistance exercise? And if doing ME squat variation, do more assistance?[/quote]
It depends. If you are squatting ‘‘powerlifting style’’ (wider stance, more forward torso lean, bringing the hips back), yes, the squat will hit pretty much the same muscles as the deadlift.
If you are squatting ‘‘olympic lifting’’ or ‘‘bodybuilding’’ style (narrower stance, less forward torso lean, hips going almost straight down) then the squat will be more quads dominant whereas the deadlift is more hamstring dominant.
So in that case they will require different assistance exercises.
Even with the power squat and deadlift you have some differences. The most important one being that individuals with long limbs will start their deadlift with the hips pretty high in the starting position (much higher than the low position of a squat) turning the deadlift more into a low back and hamstring exercise. Individuals with shorter limbs will have to bring the hips down a bit more, involving more quads.
Thib, I don’t understand what kind of limbs I have. Can you tell by that pic ? This is where my hips would be in a standard deadlift.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:
Any thoughts on why my squat and deadlift are reversed so to speak?[/quote]
Even with long limbs you can still have some variation. For example if your lower leg is proportionally longer than your upper leg you will normally have a better deadlift lever. If your upper leg is proportionally longer than your lower leg you normally have a better squat lever.
So someone could have a long leg, but still be ‘‘designed’’ to squat.[/quote]
Came across this old T-Nation article from Charles Staley when I was trying to find more on the subject of limb length proportions. Thought I’d post it in case some may want to read it:
This stuff is pretty interesting.
Is there an article and/or chart anywhere that represents ideal limb length measurements like the Vitruvian Man for example?
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
^
Would someone of one structure want to train differently than the other? Specifically, I’m thinking of rest weeks and training volume, but anything you have to say on the matter would be helpful and greatly appreciated. It’s just I have long limbs, small joints, narrow clavicles and hips, people always think I weigh 10-15 lbs lighter than I actually do and so far with the powerlifting I’ve found I need more frequent rest weeks and I can’t go balls to the wall with the accessory work. Is that a function of my build and is there anything I can do about it? [/quote]
Limb lenght has more influence on the type of training used than clavicle and hip width. Longer limb individuals will need:
- More assistance exercises to progress in the squat (powerlifting)
- More assistance exercises to progress in the bench (powerlifting)
- Less assistance exercises to progress in the deadlift (powerlifting)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger biceps and triceps (bodybuilding)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger legs
- Less exercise variation to get a bigger chest
- Will not respond fast to isolation exercises for delts because of bad levers
Clavicle and hip width, basically the sturdiness or frailty of your overall skeletal structure has more influence on how long you can handle very heavy lifting without needing a dealoading phase.[/quote]
Wow… that’s gold there, thanks a bunch for the tips (all of it).
[/quote]
Yeah where has this information been all my life? Fits me to a T. I’m 6ft4in. and havent increased my squat and bench much in the last several years. I also have longer lower legs than thighs. That’s probably why my best deadlift (545 for a triple @ bw 215 @ 21yrs, no hitch) is decent for a non competitor i think but my squat and bench suck. Thanks coach thib, this info should help me out with a lot of stuff.
So since i have long arms, what would be ideal to bring up lagging biceps? more as in adding frequency or volume? what exercises? Thanks
[quote]jormanders74 wrote:
So since i have long arms, what would be ideal to bring up lagging biceps? more as in adding frequency or volume? what exercises? Thanks[/quote]
I have a 6’2" arm spread… light/thin framed… sinewy…
Weighted Close-grip and Medium-Grip Chin-ups; Weighted Commando Pull-Ups; and Low-Pulley Cable Preacher Bench Curls (when I do them) seemed to help me much more than the normal Hammer, Dumbbell, and/or Barbell Curls everyone else does…
I had nearly a two-inch gap which is now down to an inch from doing those Weighted Chins, Commandos, and Cable Preacher Curls. I am a High-Frequency trainee.
Thibs I feel like my upper body shares the same proportions as your albeit with 30 or 40 pounds less muscle mass lol. what exercises in particular did you find were most beneficial to developing your delt width and roundness?
[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:
Thibs I feel like my upper body shares the same proportions as your albeit with 30 or 40 pounds less muscle mass lol. what exercises in particular did you find were most beneficial to developing your delt width and roundness?
[/quote]
Honestly my no.1 shoulder-builder has always been the push press. I also find the Scott press (kinda similar to an Arnold press) to be very effective for me personally, this exercise can be found in my ‘‘Shoulder training bible’’ article.
I do have to include some form of lateral raises in my program from time to time because individuals with a narrow clavicle tend to have a front deltoid that grows more easily than the lateral portion, but most forms of lateral raises hit me mostly in the traps. The only variation of the lateral raise that works for me was the style used by Larry Scott
… incidently Scott was also know for having a narrow clavicle and built very round delt.s