Here’s a first example of a wide clavicle. Alex, a bodybuilder I’m training. Obviously he also has muscular shoulders, which makes him look wider, but his shoulder structure is among the widest I’ve seen on a 5’9’’ guy.
Sebastien, one of the original I,BODYBUILDER guys is another good example of a naturally wide clavicle.
David, one of my staff guys has a naturally narrow clavicle. Notice the different look of the upper body despite plenty of muscle mass.
Kevin, the other original I,BODYBUILDER guy. He has a naturally narrower clavicle. Despite being the same bodyweight and height as Sebastien, he has a completely different look to his upper body.
Myself, also narrow clavicle. I am still able to look decently wide because I did plenty of shoulder work, but you can see that the shoulder structure is narrower than Alex and Sebastien.
[quote]Eveson wrote:
CT,
Both my parents were very skinny. Honestly I could rob a bank, take out a toothpick and stand behind it, and the people would say “He just vanished into thin air!” as I back up out the front door. My bones are very small/thin and after training for about 9 months I have gotten my deadlift up to 190 x 5 which is Grandma-numbers but now my hands really hurt epecially the pinkies. They’ve been hurting for two weeks and it’s not the skin it’s like the bones/nerves hurt. My grip strength is pretty good for a pussy I guess, but I can’t imagine what my fingers will feel like if I ever get up to 350 x 5.
I know I have the worst structure to lift weights but I’m determined to not look like a Concentration Camp Counselor for the rest of my life. In your experience have you seen very small framed people just crash and burn when it comes to weight lifting, as our bodies just cannot take heavy weights, or am I selling short the amazing adaptive qualities of the human body? It’s depressing to think that even if I add 80 pouinds of muscle my wrists will still be that of an 11 year-old girl.
P.S. You’re my favorite author here and your articles are so motivating![/quote]
Shit dude I kinda feel the same way. I haven’t been doing this for very long and I’ve already experienced some problems with an ankle, wrists, elbows, a shoulder, back/neck. Initially these were probably brought on by some shitty form but it does make you wonder.
Oh well. You can’t afford to keep putting yourself down and thinking you are genetically inferior. Maybe try a slightly different approach to spare joints (use heavy weight/low reps less often, something I’m going to have to try myself), but can’t stop, won’t stop going at it
As an aside, I remember reading in one of Arnold Schwarzeneggar’s books that even when he was at his biggest an average person could close their fingers around his wrist. To be honest, I think even a “big boned” person’s wrist isn’t all that big if the person is very lean.
CT,
I can definitely see why people say a wide clavicle is optimal, the first 2 physiques are so much more aesthetically pleasing.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I wouldn’t say no potential but it will be harder. It’s like a guy who is 6’ tall and plays basketball… it is not impossible for him to become a pro, but it will be harder than if he were genetically suited for that sport by being 6’8".
I’ll take myself as an example. I do have narrow clavicle. And my bench press used to be a weak lift for me. When I was 21 years old I could full squat 585 but only bench 265. Last year I reached my best bench press by doing 440 (200kg). My theoretical potential for the bench is low because of my structure, but with a lot of hard work and patience I was able to build it up to a decent number.[/quote]
It’s inspiring to hear that a lifter with lower natural potential for the bench managed to hit 200kg.
I’m in a similar situation albeit less strong - 170kg squat, 210kg deadlift, 95kg bench.
Any tips on improving the bench for the lifter with narrow clavicles and poor natural pressing strength?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
David, one of my staff guys has a naturally narrow clavicle. Notice the different look of the upper body despite plenty of muscle mass.[/quote]
Christian, how much does he weight and at which height?
Thanks.
[quote]Quadforce wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
David, one of my staff guys has a naturally narrow clavicle. Notice the different look of the upper body despite plenty of muscle mass.[/quote]
Christian, how much does he weight and at which height?
Thanks.[/quote]
190-195 on 6’
Hey Christian
Never noticed how “bad ass” your picture looked.
That aside I also have narrow shoulders. At 6’ and 85-90kgs I look no where near as athletic as a friend of mine. While i have slightly bigger arms, Much thicker traps and what not, he just looks bigger. So the width of shoulders or clavicals does make a huge differance. And the “big” guy at work, 6’2" 110-120kgs, has big shoulders and equaly big waist, he is strong as anything but his size/physique just doesnt show even at his weight. I guess if your not going to compete in bodybuilding you should just work on what comes natural to you, for me traps, so it draws people attention away from large waist or narrow shoulders.
Sure I know that having larger traps make your shoulders look smaller, but im growing all round as of late so its all good.
Hey CT,
Did you find it harder to develop traps as well? I have ridiculously narrow clavicles, and it seems harder for me. I’m thinking this is because the actual width of the trap is shorter and this effects the leverage that is imposed on the trap?
How does the narrow clavicle, narrow hips vs wide clavicle, wide hips affect powerlifting (or other strength sports for that matter)? Would the former want to train differently than the latter? Are there other factors equally or more important than this in strength sports? I know you did olympic lifting and powerlifting once upon a time so I was hoping I might hear your opinion on the matter.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
How does the narrow clavicle, narrow hips vs wide clavicle, wide hips affect powerlifting (or other strength sports for that matter)? Would the former want to train differently than the latter? Are there other factors equally or more important than this in strength sports? I know you did olympic lifting and powerlifting once upon a time so I was hoping I might hear your opinion on the matter.[/quote]
The wider the structure, the higher the strength potential. So, someone with wide shoulders will ‘‘potentially’’ but stronger on the bench press than someone with equal muscle mass but narrower shoulders.
By the same token, someone with wider hips and waist will ‘‘potentially’’ be stronger on the squat and deadlift than someone with an equal amount of muscle.
However other factors come into play like limb length, fiber type, tendon strength, CNS efficiency, etc.
^
Would someone of one structure want to train differently than the other? Specifically, I’m thinking of rest weeks and training volume, but anything you have to say on the matter would be helpful and greatly appreciated. It’s just I have long limbs, small joints, narrow clavicles and hips, people always think I weigh 10-15 lbs lighter than I actually do and so far with the powerlifting I’ve found I need more frequent rest weeks and I can’t go balls to the wall with the accessory work. Is that a function of my build and is there anything I can do about it?
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
^
Would someone of one structure want to train differently than the other? Specifically, I’m thinking of rest weeks and training volume, but anything you have to say on the matter would be helpful and greatly appreciated. It’s just I have long limbs, small joints, narrow clavicles and hips, people always think I weigh 10-15 lbs lighter than I actually do and so far with the powerlifting I’ve found I need more frequent rest weeks and I can’t go balls to the wall with the accessory work. Is that a function of my build and is there anything I can do about it? [/quote]
Limb lenght has more influence on the type of training used than clavicle and hip width. Longer limb individuals will need:
- More assistance exercises to progress in the squat (powerlifting)
- More assistance exercises to progress in the bench (powerlifting)
- Less assistance exercises to progress in the deadlift (powerlifting)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger biceps and triceps (bodybuilding)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger legs
- Less exercise variation to get a bigger chest
- Will not respond fast to isolation exercises for delts because of bad levers
Clavicle and hip width, basically the sturdiness or frailty of your overall skeletal structure has more influence on how long you can handle very heavy lifting without needing a dealoading phase.
I have long limbs but my quads tend to grow quickly any ideas why? It gives me lolly pop looking legs. And does the upper back tend to grow fast on long armed people. I notice my back grows but my biceps suck.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
^
Would someone of one structure want to train differently than the other? Specifically, I’m thinking of rest weeks and training volume, but anything you have to say on the matter would be helpful and greatly appreciated. It’s just I have long limbs, small joints, narrow clavicles and hips, people always think I weigh 10-15 lbs lighter than I actually do and so far with the powerlifting I’ve found I need more frequent rest weeks and I can’t go balls to the wall with the accessory work. Is that a function of my build and is there anything I can do about it? [/quote]
Limb lenght has more influence on the type of training used than clavicle and hip width. Longer limb individuals will need:
- More assistance exercises to progress in the squat (powerlifting)
- More assistance exercises to progress in the bench (powerlifting)
- Less assistance exercises to progress in the deadlift (powerlifting)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger biceps and triceps (bodybuilding)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger legs
- Less exercise variation to get a bigger chest
- Will not respond fast to isolation exercises for delts because of bad levers
Clavicle and hip width, basically the sturdiness or frailty of your overall skeletal structure has more influence on how long you can handle very heavy lifting without needing a dealoading phase.[/quote]
Wow… that’s gold there, thanks a bunch for the tips (all of it).
[quote]drewh wrote:
I have long limbs but my quads tend to grow quickly any ideas why? It gives me lolly pop looking legs. And does the upper back tend to grow fast on long armed people. I notice my back grows but my biceps suck.[/quote]
The upper back and biceps thing is fairly common to tall peoples; but the leg thing isn’t. But then again, nobody adheres perfectly to a certain type.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Limb lenght has more influence on the type of training used than clavicle and hip width. Longer limb individuals will need:
- More assistance exercises to progress in the squat (powerlifting)
- More assistance exercises to progress in the bench (powerlifting)
- Less assistance exercises to progress in the deadlift (powerlifting)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger biceps and triceps (bodybuilding)
- More single-limb work and overall exercise variation to get bigger legs
- Less exercise variation to get a bigger chest
- Will not respond fast to isolation exercises for delts because of bad levers
Clavicle and hip width, basically the sturdiness or frailty of your overall skeletal structure has more influence on how long you can handle very heavy lifting without needing a dealoading phase.[/quote]
Wow, that pretty much fits me perfectly.
Only one exception, reverse the squat and deadlift.
I seem to squat better when I just squat, squat and squat some more, no assistance. But for deadlift, if I pull conventional too often, I burn out, I did great with your deadlift spec phase (Top End/Low End) which involved no actual conventional pulling.
Any thoughts on why my squat and deadlift are reversed so to speak?