Better Than the Best

Off Topic
301

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

Never putting in effort and not competing are independent. And when someone has an athletic background–like Lew–you are even more wrong in your statement.

[/quote]

Let’s be real. Lewhitehurst does not put in half the effort that Mendelson puts into his training or lifestyle. That’s clear just from his write-up in the other thread. Also, he played semi pro football and was a tackle at 5’8". His league sounds really competitive when midget tackles run around blowing through offensive linemen. Let’s not exaggerate his abilities.

Bottom line is that Lewhitehurst is not as dedicated as a Mendelson or a Kennelly or a Hoornsta and that is a fact.

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[quote]165StateChamp wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

Never putting in effort and not competing are independent. And when someone has an athletic background–like Lew–you are even more wrong in your statement.

[/quote]

Let’s be real. Lewhitehurst does not put in half the effort that Mendelson puts into his training or lifestyle. That’s clear just from his write-up in the other thread. Also, he played semi pro football and was a tackle at 5’8". His league sounds really competitive when midget tackles run around blowing through offensive linemen. Let’s not exaggerate his abilities.

Bottom line is that Lewhitehurst is not as dedicated as a Mendelson or a Kennelly or a Hoornsta and that is a fact. [/quote]

In other words…

He can’t Incline Bench 495x6-15

THE END

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lulzzzz

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[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
First off, my apologies to Lew for helping derail his thread. I like Lew and this thread probably should have been started way sooner. Here is a link to the thread that started it:

Background - it seems some members of this site seem to think there are members of society walking around that are better than the best of all time. Regular street ball players that are better than Michael Jordan. Powerlifters (w/o videos) with better lifts than world record holders, etc.

Continue discussion.[/quote]

Well, I played basketball at the pro level and I just missed the NBA so I have plenty of perspective here. I will tell you unequivocally that there are not members of society (street balls players) in any appreciable number, that are even good enough to play in the NBA let alone “better than MJ”. Period. End of story. They are unicorns. And unicorns do not exist.

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[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]kothreat wrote:
Although highly improbable, you can not rule out the possibility these people exist. Definitely nothing to get your panties in a knot about.

As a young kid, talking 7-9, when ever we were getting ready for the annual track and field day, the teacher would always use my long jump form as an example of “air walk”. I was good in a lot of track events, quite good. But, I lived in a small shitty town with no coaching or track programs.

What if I would have grown up in a larger centre with proper coaching, training, etc? I could be a gold medal olympian. But, that support was not available, and it was just a fun thing to us kids.

There are people out there that have incredible natural ability. This ability may not be fostered to it’s ultimate growth potential. So yeah, there are people out there that may be the best in the world at something, but for various reasons have never realized this potential. Or, perhaps have realized this potential, but because they do it for themselves, have no desire to display it. It is also fact that Jordan did not make his high school team. What if this would have deterred him from ever picking up a ball again? We all know it didn’t happen this way. He practices his god damned ass off. It was his hard work and dedication that got him to the level he achieved.

Too many variables to consider. No one can be sure one way or the other. I don’t understand why this is such a touchy topic for some. [/quote]

Another distinction: It’s one thing to say so and so COULD have been the GOAT if they had the coaching, drive, etc. It’s a whole other ball game to say so and so IS BETTER than the GOAT. Which is what some members of this site were saying in the other thread. They were claiming street ball players out there currently are better than MJ. And that there are recreational power lifters out there with better lifts than world record holders.

Big distinction.
[/quote]

There are no street ball players out there better than MJ and the best of the best of the street balls players would be a fringe NBA player, AT BEST. There have been countless examples over the years of street ball players getting shots in pro summer leagues and other various try outs and guess what? They end up being not so great. Basketball is not just a physical game of talent. And what happens on the playground does NOT happen in a game with like players.

306

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
People forget that these street ballers have DAY JOBS. You can only compare them to pros JUST before they turned pro; after that, they are “PRO” for a reason–it’s their fucking job.

They have access to the best medical attention, best coaches/facilities, and they can train ALL fucking day because…wait for it…it PAYS THE BILLS.

The point at which someone turns pro is when they begin to WIDEN THE GAP with other “street ballers”–aka HOBBYISTS–because they get to practice and PLAY AGAINST THE BEST, all day, EVERY day.

And yes to what gregron said: NBA players would murder street ballers on the court. I read that Kobe once played at Rucker Park and made fools out of all of them.

The street ballers don’t play much defense because giving each other opportunities to show boat is what sells tapes like AND1, showcasing their skills for scouts. At least, that’s one reason they don’t play much defense.

People also forget that even pros have bad days/games. Muhammad Ali got knocked out by 5 greats (or was it more) but nobody says Rocky Marciano (undefeated) was better than Muhammad Ali.

This is a point well highlighted by big soccer matches. You get two teams playing on the world stage, and even if one team isn’t as highly regarded as the other (e.g. Turkey vs. England)…you are still talking about world class athletes, where the “underdog” can beat the other team. What I mean is, when we’re talking about the top 2%, it can boil down to who is having a better day. It can just boil down to pyschological/emotional state.[/quote]

Kobe would have ran shit at Rucker when he was a Senior in High School. I played at Rucker and some of the pro-am leagues in NYC. I even played in an all-star game during Harlem week against/hosted by Mark Jackson (and Anthony Mason) from the Knicks.

The gap does not grow after a player reaches the pros. Number one, he’s not receiving the coaching you might believe. There really isn’t time to “coach” a player in the sense that you are thinking. It’s a long season, and a tight schedule. There isn’t much “teaching time”. And although there is some value to playing against the best everyday, the guys that reach the pros are largely at that level anyway by virtue of their college play/career. It’s why schools like Duke, North Carolina, etc. consistently produce ready-made pros - because those kids were actually “coached” and taught the game, and played at a high level.

Next, the idea of the dedicated pro, training hard, eating right is largely a fallacy. Many of these guy’s diets (especially the younger guys) would scare the fuck out of you. A player usually learns the hard way, after a few years in the league, how to take care of himself. For every guy training his ass off with the latest training methods, there is another guy doing next-to-nothing but getting by on talent.

There is a LARGE difference between the best street players and a pro. It might not be obvious to the untrained eye, but it becomes apparent when you put that street baller on the court with pros. He might be a step slow. He might not have a reliable outside shot. He might not understand spacing, motion or have a reliable outside shot. He is likely to have terrible shot selection. He might be weak on defense. In other words, there is usually always a reason some player has NOT reached the big show.

There are plenty of minor leagues where such a player could get noticed and be given a shot. That NBA players overwhelmingly DO NOT come from these ranks speaks volumes.

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[quote]bond james bond wrote:
Team sport, not likely.

Individual sport, more likely.

[/quote]

Agreed.

308

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
Lol youve been arguing the entire time that those people are out there, so show us one. Just one and I will gladly shut it. I already acknowledged I didn’t get the original quote, because ya know when people are obviously wrong admitting it isn’t tough, for most of us at least.[/quote]

Hmmm, How many times have I written that the discussion was about genetic possibilities? No one EVER wrote about someone we know NOW who can match MJ. Is this that hard to understand?

It can’t be because at least two other well known posters have posted here clearly grasping what I was talking about.

How is it anonym can understand this but you can’t?[/quote]

If you’re saying that someone has the genetic potential (and does not know it) to be better than MJ I agree with you. But MJ wasn’t just the sum of his genetic potential. In fact, he never jumped the absolute highest, or was the fastest - so his genetics were great, but not the “greatest”. It was his intangibles - mental make-up, work ethic, coaching, etc. that made him “great”. There were/are players in the league with “better tools” than MJ, but not necessarily the “package”.

So, strictly genetic? Yes, those guys likely exist in spades. As for an actual player out there playing at that level “undiscovered”. So unlikely it’s not worthy of serious discussion.

It was once said that genetically speaking, based on the numbers alone, that there had to be a great number of “white Carl Lewis’” for every Carl Lewis. However, they are unlikely to ever know it or develop it. So, yes, the genetics are out there in our general pool - we can’t argue that.

309

[quote]doubleh wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
LWH - sorry for moving away from your thread but some of this stuff is just BS.

2 points and I’m out.

Most of you are fairly young and live in an age where you think everything is Youtube and media ready and so you use that as a point of reference for reality. Not everyone that is big and strong has a desire to lift competitively. Some people actually just like to lift and its recreational.

That said, just because someone in a competitition is listed as the best doesn’t mean there isn’t someone out there better. I incline 315 8-12 reps and honestly- it doesnt hit my pecs because I’m shoulder dominant in all my pressing excercises. Its not difficult for me to believe that a man bigger than me can move a couple more hundy.

As for the PRO sports references - most of those comments are just crazy. I grew up in Chicago and watched MJ play every chance I got. He’s not doing anything more phenominal than any other NBA player today. He was just ahead of his time. Have any of you seen the AND 1 mixtapes - those dudes are sick - and there are sicker ones in the street.

Talent alone doesn’t get you to the pro level. Pro players develop under skilled systems and coaches. Flaws are worked out. They understand playbooks and team concepts. They get vouched for. - Truely, is this any different than a corporate job? I know we all want to believe that if we work hard and are the brightest than you will get rewarded but who you know plays a very imporatant part.[/quote]

This is easily one of the dumbest things ever written.[/quote]

X1000.

And1 players compared to NBA players is like comparing a fire cracker to a hand grenade. One is all flash, and the other is fucking for real.

As for the last paragraph: unless you think “skilled systems and coaches” exist at the high school level, please explain to me Kevin Garnett, Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, etc etc etc. Not one played college basketball, where they would have had access to elite-level programs and coaches.

And guess what? Every inner-city baller in Harlem or wherever else can go to high school, just like these guys did. And yet I don’t see all these streetballers, who do play in high school, even get recruited by colleges. Hell, if you’ve ever seen any of the Rucker Park videos, there’s guys there that star on the playgrounds that WERE former college players. I remember one in particular that was a 2-year starter on a full ride at Iona. Obviously a very good player, but a 2-year starter at a mid-major is light years away from an NBA player. Light years.

If there are any NBA-talent-level streetballers, we’ve heard of them. Earl the Goat. Fly Williams. Pee Wee Kirkland (who was drafted). Rafer Alston.

Some of you have no concept just how fucking good an NBA player is.[/quote]

None.

LOL @ AND1 ballers being “sick”. Yeah, sick against scrubs that can’t play defense. Rafer Alston was one of the best players to ever suit up for AND1 and he was a pedestrian NBA player.

LMMFAO at his MJ comment and that players have surpassed him. Wow. Just fucking Wow.

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[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I am sure there a tremendous athletes who chose a different path, I however do not for a second believe that someone who could beat MJ is not in the NBA/hall of fame. [/quote]

Why do you believe this? Why would you believe that everyone with that ability would even go into basketball at all? Part of what makes these athletes that good is their training and coaching…and we keep saying over and over that the debate is the existence of someone who WITH THE RIGHT TRAINING could do so.

You are claiming this is impossible…that no one could ever be good at it and not go into basketball.[/quote]

PART of what makes them so good is their training and coaching… but MOST of what makes them great is their skill and God given physical talent/abilities. Look at three of the best players in the NBA right now (KOBE, LBJ and Dwight Howard)

All three of those players went to the NBA straight from highschool! They werent getting the best coaching/training as highschool kids and they were still great enough to go to the NBA and tear shit up.

Coaching and training are important but they arent going to turn joe schmo into an all star. Give me all the training and coaching in the world and I would never get 1 minute of playing time in the NBA.[/quote]

Kobe Bryant’s dad was a pro player and Dwight’s dad was the athletic director of ones of the best basketball program’s in the US. Dwight’s mom also played college ball.

I would say their coaching growing up was anything but typical and contributed a LOT to their success.

[/quote]

Kobe regularly scrimmaged with the Sixers and other pros while in high school…starting in grade school actually. I played pro summer league with his dad Joe. We were on the same team for 2 years.

As a whole, coaching at the high school level is terrible - even at some of the better programs. You got a guy like Bobby Hurley at St. Anthony’s (NJ) and a big drop off after that.

Most high school players are recruited on talent and upside. They get coaching in college. You can only “coach” someone so far. You can’t “coach” someone to be a step faster, jump a bit higher or have a better mental make up.

This thread also keeps mentioning “outliers” like Kobe, et als. The simple fact is, setting aside the “GOAT” element of this thread, there are not even unknown street players that could realistically make the NBA let alone be “GOAT”.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

I never said that their coaching was typical.

Do you think that there were/are other highschool kids out there with just as good and better training than what Kobe and Howard got? Why arent they in the NBA dominating those two? (let me answer my own question here cause its pretty rhetorical… the answer is TALENT)
[/quote]

Question for you, Greg…since you seem to be one of the few who has the ability to discuss this without the crap I am seeing lately with a few others…but why would you even assume that some kid with no ties to the sport (formally) in a small town without the guidance would receive “just as good and better training” as anyone who made it to the NBA?

Isn’t that the point? That some people CAN slip through the cracks? They obviously WOULDN’T get “just as good and better training”. They would possibly get NO training.[/quote]

With the current AAU system, it is very unlikely for any truly talented player to slip thru the cracks unnoticed. AAU ball starts pretty young and continues up thru high school. And I maintain that it is NOT a matter of “training” or “coaching”. Under the collegiate level, we’re largely talking talent and potential e.g. “upside”.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

I know environment has a lot to do with a lot of factors… do you think that “killer instinct” that the greats in every sport have is something they’re born with? Dont you think that they are just insanely competitive people that wont accept anything but winning?[/quote]

That “killer instinct” doesn’t end with basketball. I played sports early on, and yes, if I had stuck with it, I might not be sitting here now. I do believe Bodyguard on this site made a similar claim in that he almost went into pro sports but made a dumb decision. Some of you are now claiming this is impossible and can’t happen.

I have that “killer instinct” now as far as my career and finances. I keep it in the gym as well because I have other goals.

The point, again, is that you won’t know one way or the other…so assuming every guy with great talent will even end up playing the sport they are talented in is to completely dismiss the human factor in that equation.
[/quote]

I fucked up by quitting my senior year in high school and not enrolling in any college thereafter. If I were smart, all I’d have to do is a year in JC and the colleges that wanted me prior, would have taken me again. That said, I did not fall thru the cracks. I then tried to get back in shape and “make it” without the benefit of any college resume. I made one of the most difficult journey’s to professional status that much more difficult by my college decision. But I was on the radar. I played pro-am, minor leagues and overseas. I had an NBA look. I had the option of toiling in the old CBA. Heck, I was offered Globetrotters (Generals - chance to travel the world, get paid) just from playing in the park one day. It’s very hard for a very talented player to simply “fall thru the cracks”. The basketball “infrastructure” at the amateur level is pretty comprehensive. Coaching is generally terrible, but there is no shortage of venues to get noticed, from AAU ball, pro-am ball and summer leagues. If you can play, someone will notice you.

On the other hand, there is no shortage of those players that are “running shit” at their local park, who get a shot to play at a higher level and they become absolutely ordinary.

It is a VERY difficult sport to make it in.

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I love how this thread turned out

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[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

Kobe would have ran shit at Rucker when he was a Senior in High School. I played at Rucker and some of the pro-am leagues in NYC. I even played in an all-star game during Harlem week against/hosted by Mark Jackson (and Anthony Mason) from the Knicks.

[/quote]

I didn’t want to come back to this damn thread but wanted to respond once to you. Please clarify one thing:

“would have ran shit at Rucker” = ?

Are you saying that, as a senior in high school, Kobe would NOT have blown away Rucker Park players? Or are you saying the opposite?

I was saying that there was an account–I am looking for the video or at least article–of him playing at Rucker AFTER he entered the NBA (i.e. NOT as a senior in high school) and dominating, largely because he plays against other pros in the NBA but also because the Rucker Park guys just don’t play D like it’s played in the NBA. They barely play it at all.

Do you disagree with that? Just curious, want some clarification.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
The gap does not grow after a player reaches the pros.
[/quote]

This are you implying that Kobe as a senior in high school would not be much better than the Kobe today?

I know your statement can mean:

A) a pro today who is much better than a street baller was probably better than the street player before he turned pro; i.e., the “gap” exists or it doesn’t exist, and if it exists, it doesn’t grow over the years.

I can agree with that but I would disagree at the extension of that logic (if you are implying it, but I’m not sure, so please comment), that the pro (especially after what, 15 years in the league) has NOT gotten substantially better than when he first entered, especially considering how much playing time he has had against other pros, which your comment about Duke/UNC players being so well-groomed for the NBA implies (I took that from your comment, that they are that good because of coaching stuff AND because they are around high quality opponents/peers).

But if you mean that the gap between pro and street baller exists and just never really changes much, I can understand that, but I still think playing against others pro damn near every day would simply improve your game, especially the elements that can’t really be coached (vertical, agility, quickness, mental game)…more of a virtue of the individual wanting to be better at he game.

Please respond because I’m not following your commentary.

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[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

I fucked up by quitting my senior year in high school and not enrolling in any college thereafter. If I were smart, all I’d have to do is a year in JC and the colleges that wanted me prior, would have taken me again. That said, I did not fall thru the cracks. I then tried to get back in shape and “make it” without the benefit of any college resume. I made one of the most difficult journey’s to professional status that much more difficult by my college decision. But I was on the radar. I played pro-am, minor leagues and overseas. I had an NBA look. I had the option of toiling in the old CBA. Heck, I was offered Globetrotters (Generals - chance to travel the world, get paid) just from playing in the park one day. It’s very hard for a very talented player to simply “fall thru the cracks”. The basketball “infrastructure” at the amateur level is pretty comprehensive. Coaching is generally terrible, but there is no shortage of venues to get noticed, from AAU ball, pro-am ball and summer leagues. If you can play, someone will notice you.

On the other hand, there is no shortage of those players that are “running shit” at their local park, who get a shot to play at a higher level and they become absolutely ordinary.

It is a VERY difficult sport to make it in. [/quote]

But the comment of falling through the cracks…you do agree that the likelihood depends on the pervasiveness of the sport itself, right? i.e., th emore ubiquitous the sport, the more tiers of exposure (amateur, high school, college, pro-am, pro) the more chances for true talent to be quickly recognized and referred to the next higher tier, right? You agree?

Because that would imply the corollary: if a sport is NOT as popular or have as many channels to expose one’s talent (e.g. powerlifting), then someone with true talent/strength/athleticism might not get as noticed or even at all, in comparison to a really basketball playing prodigy.

Agreed?

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[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

Kobe would have ran shit at Rucker when he was a Senior in High School. I played at Rucker and some of the pro-am leagues in NYC. I even played in an all-star game during Harlem week against/hosted by Mark Jackson (and Anthony Mason) from the Knicks.

[/quote]

I didn’t want to come back to this damn thread but wanted to respond once to you. Please clarify one thing:

“would have ran shit at Rucker” = ?

Are you saying that, as a senior in high school, Kobe would NOT have blown away Rucker Park players? Or are you saying the opposite?

I was saying that there was an account–I am looking for the video or at least article–of him playing at Rucker AFTER he entered the NBA (i.e. NOT as a senior in high school) and dominating, largely because he plays against other pros in the NBA but also because the Rucker Park guys just don’t play D like it’s played in the NBA. They barely play it at all.

Do you disagree with that? Just curious, want some clarification.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
The gap does not grow after a player reaches the pros.
[/quote]

This are you implying that Kobe as a senior in high school would not be much better than the Kobe today?

I know your statement can mean:

A) a pro today who is much better than a street baller was probably better than the street player before he turned pro; i.e., the “gap” exists or it doesn’t exist, and if it exists, it doesn’t grow over the years.

I can agree with that but I would disagree at the extension of that logic (if you are implying it, but I’m not sure, so please comment), that the pro (especially after what, 15 years in the league) has NOT gotten substantially better than when he first entered, especially considering how much playing time he has had against other pros, which your comment about Duke/UNC players being so well-groomed for the NBA implies (I took that from your comment, that they are that good because of coaching stuff AND because they are around high quality opponents/peers).

But if you mean that the gap between pro and street baller exists and just never really changes much, I can understand that, but I still think playing against others pro damn near every day would simply improve your game, especially the elements that can’t really be coached (vertical, agility, quickness, mental game)…more of a virtue of the individual wanting to be better at he game.

Please respond because I’m not following your commentary.

[/quote]

Let me try to address your points without making this longer :slight_smile:

Kobe WOULD have competed very favorably as a senior in high school. In fact, he would have been one of the best players on the court at any given time.

The gap between pro talent and street ball talent always exists. A 15 year player in the league KNOWS the game better, but is not physically better than when he entered the league. A “street baller” will always usually lack something critical that keeps him from contending at a higher level and that critical element may not be apparent until he steps on the court with better competition. This has been shown time and time again. There is no shortage of playground guys getting a shot in a better league and just disappearing. They are at the playground for a reason.

Playing every day with the best talent improves the game of players qualified to play against that talent. Take a guy without the requisite talent to compete at that level and he just gets abused every single day - he may improve, but he is limited by his innate talent. Kobe practiced and scrimmaged with NBA players in high school because HE COULD COMPETE. You can only be improved to the level of your potential. If your logic held, the only thing separating a pro from a would be is coaching and practice. Like I said, there are always reasons, sometimes not obvious, why a guy doesn’t “make it”.

317

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

I fucked up by quitting my senior year in high school and not enrolling in any college thereafter. If I were smart, all I’d have to do is a year in JC and the colleges that wanted me prior, would have taken me again. That said, I did not fall thru the cracks. I then tried to get back in shape and “make it” without the benefit of any college resume. I made one of the most difficult journey’s to professional status that much more difficult by my college decision. But I was on the radar. I played pro-am, minor leagues and overseas. I had an NBA look. I had the option of toiling in the old CBA. Heck, I was offered Globetrotters (Generals - chance to travel the world, get paid) just from playing in the park one day. It’s very hard for a very talented player to simply “fall thru the cracks”. The basketball “infrastructure” at the amateur level is pretty comprehensive. Coaching is generally terrible, but there is no shortage of venues to get noticed, from AAU ball, pro-am ball and summer leagues. If you can play, someone will notice you.

On the other hand, there is no shortage of those players that are “running shit” at their local park, who get a shot to play at a higher level and they become absolutely ordinary.

It is a VERY difficult sport to make it in. [/quote]

But the comment of falling through the cracks…you do agree that the likelihood depends on the pervasiveness of the sport itself, right? i.e., th emore ubiquitous the sport, the more tiers of exposure (amateur, high school, college, pro-am, pro) the more chances for true talent to be quickly recognized and referred to the next higher tier, right? You agree?

Because that would imply the corollary: if a sport is NOT as popular or have as many channels to expose one’s talent (e.g. powerlifting), then someone with true talent/strength/athleticism might not get as noticed or even at all, in comparison to a really basketball playing prodigy.

Agreed?[/quote]

I can agree with that but I prefer to limit my comments to my depth; basketball. It is very unlikely that a very gifted basketball player in this country would go unnoticed. Now, if you’re talking simply unknown potential, then we’re getting into the “must be life on other planets” analogy. The gene pool is rich and diverse. To believe that genetic potential has been mined to its fullest potential is absurd. There are literally 100’s of Carl Lewis’ walking around out there if not more.

318

my two cents.

I will keep this to the realm of lifting weights…too many variables when you get into other more athletic and commercialized/business minded team sports like bb or fb, ect.

There are a lot of very strong people out there who never compete. agreed, but there is a limit to what I will believe on the interwebz.

Lew is a beast, big enough and jacked enough that I do not fucking care if he inclined benched 495x15 or not, I would still listen to his advice on lifting and getting big.

now that THAT is out of the way…I am skeptical of an average joe claiming BEYOND world class numbers.

here is an example. there are multiple videos of me DL 600-665 on my t-page…but the biggest PC I have on video is 120kg.

in college as a thrower I pc routinely 190-200kg. I very recently (last night as a matter of fact) hit a 150kg pc with a hook grip. I was hesitant of even posting it on my log because I did not have video evidence of it, as I did it at a commercial gym which has banned camera phones.

now, think about this…I have video evidence of me pulling close to 700lbs, AND, a 150kg PC is NOT an impressive number by any means…it is barely average for somebody with my background…but STILL I felt bad about claiming that number without evidence.

why is that?

answer: bullshit runs deep in the modern age of the internet. too many people claiming bullshit and living pseudo lives they wish they lived but never did.

my college numbers of 190-200kg pc is still not a GREAT number, it was average to maybe a little above average for the monsters I was training and competing with…

I dont have any video of those lifts, as that was in the early 1990s before digital media was so easily available.

lets say for example, I claimed I could pc 230kg…that is a WORLD CLASS PC. many top level OL cant do that. I WOULD NEVER claim that number if I could not prove it. It is just bad taste.

hell…when random “bro’s” ask me in the gym what my best lifts were…I rarely answer…because I dont want to be one of the old guys who talk about “w 20 years ago i could do blah-blah-blah” I usually answer:“you would not believe it…so all I can do is what I can do now”

AGAIN…Lew is a fucking beast…I like his posts…and seems like the type of guy I would be friends with in the real world…and he is bigger and more jacked than I have ever been…

and I come from an upbringing that you do NOT call another man a liar unless you are willing to fight him…so I will just say: “maybe…but I would have to see it to believe it”

I am drunk on Turkey 101 right now…not sure any of this made sense…so flame away…I probably deserve it.

319

[quote]kothreat wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
because his nickname was GOAT he was the greatest? LMFAO

Those streetballers PLAY NO FUCKING DEFENSE! There are tons and tons of guys who can shoot the lights out in the gym but cant hold their own on the defensive end and thats why they cant play in the league or cant get off the bench.

Jordan was on the NBA All Defense team tons of times. Just cause he scored the ball at will didnt make him the GOAT, he was also a great defender.

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Again, did anyone read the article?
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There’s also a movie about his life called “Rebound” that is very interesting. To the people in this thread doubting his story and who are too lazy to read either of the links, he was a phenomenal talent who never had the discipline to succeed in college. He got into drugs, got clean, and now restored and maintains a streetball court in NY. Another example of this could be Marcus DuPree, the guy featured in the ESPN 30 for 30 who could have been a great running back but didn’t have the mental toughness to succeed at the next level.

As for the distinction between physical talent and mental discipline, I think it’s a silly one. Part of what made Michael Jordan great were his competitiveness and drive, which enhanced his athleticism. I think that what separates the greatest players from their peers has less to do with talent and more to do with drive and discipline.

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So, is this the thread that sent PX packing? Because I haven’t seen a post from him in weeks…