Better Than the Best

Off Topic
281

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

People also forget that even pros have bad days/games. Muhammad Ali got knocked out by 5 greats (or was it more) but nobody says Rocky Marciano (undefeated) was better than Muhammad Ali.

[/quote]

Sorry, but this is just wrong. I would read up a little bit more before using this as an example. The majority of Muhammad Ali’s losses by decision came at the end of his career when most agreed that he shouldn’t have been fighting anymore. He was clearly the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time based on his earlier accomplishments. Was Michael Jordan not the greatest because he decided to play for the Wizards?

On topic, I don’t believe Lewhitehurst’s claims. However, I do believe that there are people out there who are more genetically gifted than many champion powerlifters/bodybuilders/Olympic lifters. These people often turn to other sports so their potential is never realized. On OU’s football team right now there are two players, a freshman and a sophomore, who are insanely gifted from both a bodybuilding and powerlifting standpoint. They can be assumed to be natural based on NCAA testing. They definitely don’t pay much mind to their nutrition and their training programs aren’t optimal from either a powerlifting or bodybuilding standpoint. If they were given the right drugs, nutrition and programs I have no doubt that they could dominate the world of strength sports.

They will almost certainly never do this. Both will likely end up in the NFL within a year or two and will have their sights set on far different things than bench press records or bodybuilding trophies. I don’t believe that someone can reach the strength levels of a Mendelson or the muscularity of a Coleman without using steroids and making it their absolute focus. There may be people with the potential to surpass them, but until they go to those extreme levels there is absolutely no comparison. A 5’8 280 lb natural man with a high body fat percentage will not surpass the likes of 330 lb steroid-using relatively lean Mendelson or even a 290 lb steroid-using lean Stan Efferding. It’s just not going to happen. The focus isn’t there, the drive isn’t there and the methods arent there either. Lewhitehurst is NOT the genetic elite.

282

[quote]165StateChamp wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

People also forget that even pros have bad days/games. Muhammad Ali got knocked out by 5 greats (or was it more) but nobody says Rocky Marciano (undefeated) was better than Muhammad Ali.

[/quote]

Sorry, but this is just wrong. I would read up a little bit more before using this as an example. The majority of Muhammad Ali’s losses by decision came at the end of his career when most agreed that he shouldn’t have been fighting anymore. He was clearly the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time based on his earlier accomplishments. Was Michael Jordan not the greatest because he decided to play for the Wizards?

On topic, I don’t believe Lewhitehurst’s claims. However, I do believe that there are people out there who are more genetically gifted than many champion powerlifters/bodybuilders/Olympic lifters. These people often turn to other sports so their potential is never realized. On OU’s football team right now there are two players, a freshman and a sophomore, who are insanely gifted from both a bodybuilding and powerlifting standpoint. They can be assumed to be natural based on NCAA testing. They definitely don’t pay much mind to their nutrition and their training programs aren’t optimal from either a powerlifting or bodybuilding standpoint. If they were given the right drugs, nutrition and programs I have no doubt that they could dominate the world of strength sports.

They will almost certainly never do this. Both will likely end up in the NFL within a year or two and will have their sights set on far different things than bench press records or bodybuilding trophies. I don’t believe that someone can reach the strength levels of a Mendelson or the muscularity of a Coleman without using steroids and making it their absolute focus. There may be people with the potential to surpass them, but until they go to those extreme levels there is absolutely no comparison. A 5’8 280 lb natural man with a high body fat percentage will not surpass the likes of 330 lb steroid-using relatively lean Mendelson or even a 290 lb steroid-using lean Stan Efferding. It’s just not going to happen. The focus isn’t there, the drive isn’t there and the methods arent there either. Lewhitehurst is NOT the genetic elite. [/quote]

You are full of it.

Athletes don’t have bad days/games? Give me a break.

A great boxer can get knocked out if hit at the right point on his jaw. Doesn’t make him any less a great boxer.

Talent is not a guarantee of performance. What’s hard to understand there?

And whether Lew can hit those numbers begs the question: Do you think that, when the “world record” is recorded for a feat, that EVERY possible individual alive has attempted the feat recently and had his performance listed on some fucking March Madness style bracket? Give me a break.

There is likely ALWAYS someone out there who is slightly bigger/stronger/faster/with more endurance than you. You just may never know.

The world’s strongest man might be the strongest of the sport, but that sport requires people to be REGISTERED TO COMPETE. What if someone in Samoa is stronger but just never thought of being in sports?

Look up Ramanujan (mathematics). People often say the likes of Einstein, etc. have never been seen again. This man was in a fucking village and essentially discovered Calculus ON HIS OWN. Over 100 years of equations he figured out on his own, with only exposure to a single western text on mathematics. How is that possible? Well, it was. It happened.

My point is, undocumented claims are just as common (and just as likely, statistically) as documented ones. The improbably and the impossible are independent, not mutually exclusive.

I personally didn’t believe the claim that CT OH pressed some 400+ lbs for “five cluster reps” or whatever they used in the ad copy for Anaconda, because that would put him up there with Olympic lifters (who actually competed, not people who do Oly lifts) or even Mariusz Pudzianowski. But, it doesn’t mean that it’s impossible.

283

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Look up Ramanujan (mathematics). People often say the likes of Einstein, etc. have never been seen again. This man was in a fucking village and essentially discovered Calculus ON HIS OWN. Over 100 years of equations he figured out on his own, with only exposure to a single western text on mathematics. How is that possible? Well, it was. It happened.[/quote]

It happened, but not like that. He had access to many textbooks, although they were outdated by the standards of the time, and went to school and later college. He did not rediscover calculus as far as we know, but he did discover thousands of original results. Everyone that knew Ramanujan knew he had exceptional talent, and when he wrote to G.H. Hardy he immediately recognised his genius.

And what you’re forgetting is that it’s normal for great mathematical geniuses to rediscover things for themselves. Grothendieck, the greatest mathematician of the 20th century, developed measure theory independently while he was at university.

What I’m saying is that it is impossible for this kind of talent to go unnoticed, unless the person chooses not to develop it. I lived with a guy that incline pressed 180kg for sets of 12, and that’s the strongest pressing I’ve ever witnessed. If he was doing 220kg for 15 reps you can bet I’d be talking about that, and I would not be the only one.

Maybe there is someone out there that can incline 495lbs for 15 reps, that would prove nothing. LWH claimed he can do it, and if there is no proof then why should we believe him (as much as we respect him)? Therefore:

[quote]detazathoth wrote:
Lew can’t incline 495x6-15

/THREAD[/quote]

284

You know what i’m a bit afraid of? That stupid shit like this, where people make a big deal out of nothing, is going to drive away anyone that has experience. So what if he can’t. Dude obviously knows how to get huge. So what if he added a little hyperbole. Keep being a buncha whiny babies about it and this site is going to turn into shit. It’s already starting to decline because of petty shit like this. How many posters have said they no longer post or even read the boards because people can’t let silly shit like this go?

It seems like if a post can’t be trolled or someone hasn’t left themselves open for ridicule then no one is interested in the thread.

285

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]165StateChamp wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

People also forget that even pros have bad days/games. Muhammad Ali got knocked out by 5 greats (or was it more) but nobody says Rocky Marciano (undefeated) was better than Muhammad Ali.

[/quote]

Sorry, but this is just wrong. I would read up a little bit more before using this as an example. The majority of Muhammad Ali’s losses by decision came at the end of his career when most agreed that he shouldn’t have been fighting anymore. He was clearly the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time based on his earlier accomplishments. Was Michael Jordan not the greatest because he decided to play for the Wizards?

On topic, I don’t believe Lewhitehurst’s claims. However, I do believe that there are people out there who are more genetically gifted than many champion powerlifters/bodybuilders/Olympic lifters. These people often turn to other sports so their potential is never realized. On OU’s football team right now there are two players, a freshman and a sophomore, who are insanely gifted from both a bodybuilding and powerlifting standpoint. They can be assumed to be natural based on NCAA testing. They definitely don’t pay much mind to their nutrition and their training programs aren’t optimal from either a powerlifting or bodybuilding standpoint. If they were given the right drugs, nutrition and programs I have no doubt that they could dominate the world of strength sports.

They will almost certainly never do this. Both will likely end up in the NFL within a year or two and will have their sights set on far different things than bench press records or bodybuilding trophies. I don’t believe that someone can reach the strength levels of a Mendelson or the muscularity of a Coleman without using steroids and making it their absolute focus. There may be people with the potential to surpass them, but until they go to those extreme levels there is absolutely no comparison. A 5’8 280 lb natural man with a high body fat percentage will not surpass the likes of 330 lb steroid-using relatively lean Mendelson or even a 290 lb steroid-using lean Stan Efferding. It’s just not going to happen. The focus isn’t there, the drive isn’t there and the methods arent there either. Lewhitehurst is NOT the genetic elite. [/quote]

You are full of it.

Athletes don’t have bad days/games? Give me a break.

A great boxer can get knocked out if hit at the right point on his jaw. Doesn’t make him any less a great boxer.

Talent is not a guarantee of performance. What’s hard to understand there?

And whether Lew can hit those numbers begs the question: Do you think that, when the “world record” is recorded for a feat, that EVERY possible individual alive has attempted the feat recently and had his performance listed on some fucking March Madness style bracket? Give me a break.

There is likely ALWAYS someone out there who is slightly bigger/stronger/faster/with more endurance than you. You just may never know.

The world’s strongest man might be the strongest of the sport, but that sport requires people to be REGISTERED TO COMPETE. What if someone in Samoa is stronger but just never thought of being in sports?

Look up Ramanujan (mathematics). People often say the likes of Einstein, etc. have never been seen again. This man was in a fucking village and essentially discovered Calculus ON HIS OWN. Over 100 years of equations he figured out on his own, with only exposure to a single western text on mathematics. How is that possible? Well, it was. It happened.

My point is, undocumented claims are just as common (and just as likely, statistically) as documented ones. The improbably and the impossible are independent, not mutually exclusive.

I personally didn’t believe the claim that CT OH pressed some 400+ lbs for “five cluster reps” or whatever they used in the ad copy for Anaconda, because that would put him up there with Olympic lifters (who actually competed, not people who do Oly lifts) or even Mariusz Pudzianowski. But, it doesn’t mean that it’s impossible.[/quote]

I hope FightinIrish26 finds his way to this thread and destroys you for your claims on boxing history. No one is arguing that an athlete cannot have a bad day. I’m telling you that you are wrong for claiming that Ali was knocked out 5 times and that those losses were the result of ‘bad days’. They were the result of poorly chosen fights in a career that was in its twilight. Ali came out of retirement to fight Larry Holmes. Do you really think that Ali would have suffered his final three losses if he hadn’t been a mediocre shadow of his former self?

If we’re going to argue by your logic, we can say that any number of NFL players were the greatest rugby players of all time. Jonathan Ogden would have made an awesome prop. I guess it doesn’t really matter that he never played professional rugby, we’ll just say he was still the greatest prop of all time.

If someone never competes in the activity and never puts any effort into it, it’s absolutely stupid to assume that they’re better than the very best around that actually put effort into the sport.

I hope you find your Samoan.

286

Preface: I like Ponce, comes across as a cool guy and helpful contributor. But, he couldn’t be more wrong here.

287

This was an interesting read. A lot of closed-mindedness floating about. I don’t find too much out there hard to believe when it comes to the human body and its potential. Unless we’re talking about comic book stuff. When did it become a fact that if you are great at something, you MUST advertise and sell yourself to the world as being great at it? When did doing something recreationally automatically place a limit on how well you can do it? Not everything gets put out there for the world to see.

Take for example, my last deployment to Iraq. There was a dude who looked pretty strong, but wasn’t of the bodybuilder mold. He favored more of a “farmhand” look. Well, this dude threw 495lbs on the bar and squat the shit for a dozen reps. He did this for three sets. I wish I remembered his name, but he hailed from MI. That kind of strength was “noticed” but went unheralded, as we had other things to be concerned about…like not dying. If someone has the ability to do something great, there is no requirement for that person to milk it for all its worth. There’s no requirement to post it on Youtube, or stop the presses. In the grand scheme of things, who cares? If that person doesn’t, why should the rest of us?

That’s all I’ve got for this thread.

288

[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
This was an interesting read. A lot of closed-mindedness floating about. I don’t find too much out there hard to believe when it comes to the human body and its potential. Unless we’re talking about comic book stuff. When did it become a fact that if you are great at something, you MUST advertise and sell yourself to the world as being great at it? When did doing something recreationally automatically place a limit on how well you can do it? Not everything gets put out there for the world to see.

Take for example, my last deployment to Iraq. There was a dude who looked pretty strong, but wasn’t of the bodybuilder mold. He favored more of a “farmhand” look. Well, this dude threw 495lbs on the bar and squat the shit for a dozen reps. He did this for three sets. I wish I remembered his name, but he hailed from MI. That kind of strength was “noticed” but went unheralded, as we had other things to be concerned about…like not dying. If someone has the ability to do something great, there is no requirement for that person to milk it for all its worth. There’s no requirement to post it on Youtube, or stop the presses. In the grand scheme of things, who cares? If that person doesn’t, why should the rest of us?

That’s all I’ve got for this thread. [/quote]

Lew can’t incline 495x6-15

/THREAD

289

[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
This was an interesting read. A lot of closed-mindedness floating about. I don’t find too much out there hard to believe when it comes to the human body and its potential. Unless we’re talking about comic book stuff. When did it become a fact that if you are great at something, you MUST advertise and sell yourself to the world as being great at it? When did doing something recreationally automatically place a limit on how well you can do it? Not everything gets put out there for the world to see.

Take for example, my last deployment to Iraq. There was a dude who looked pretty strong, but wasn’t of the bodybuilder mold. He favored more of a “farmhand” look. Well, this dude threw 495lbs on the bar and squat the shit for a dozen reps. He did this for three sets. I wish I remembered his name, but he hailed from MI. That kind of strength was “noticed” but went unheralded, as we had other things to be concerned about…like not dying. If someone has the ability to do something great, there is no requirement for that person to milk it for all its worth. There’s no requirement to post it on Youtube, or stop the presses. In the grand scheme of things, who cares? If that person doesn’t, why should the rest of us?

That’s all I’ve got for this thread. [/quote]

You just compared squatting 495 for 12 to inclining 495 for 15. That’s like comparing Rosanne Barr to Megan Fox.

290

[quote]165StateChamp wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

People also forget that even pros have bad days/games. Muhammad Ali got knocked out by 5 greats (or was it more) but nobody says Rocky Marciano (undefeated) was better than Muhammad Ali.

[/quote]

Sorry, but this is just wrong. I would read up a little bit more before using this as an example. The majority of Muhammad Ali’s losses by decision came at the end of his career when most agreed that he shouldn’t have been fighting anymore. He was clearly the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time based on his earlier accomplishments. Was Michael Jordan not the greatest because he decided to play for the Wizards?

On topic, I don’t believe Lewhitehurst’s claims. However, I do believe that there are people out there who are more genetically gifted than many champion powerlifters/bodybuilders/Olympic lifters. These people often turn to other sports so their potential is never realized. On OU’s football team right now there are two players, a freshman and a sophomore, who are insanely gifted from both a bodybuilding and powerlifting standpoint. They can be assumed to be natural based on NCAA testing. They definitely don’t pay much mind to their nutrition and their training programs aren’t optimal from either a powerlifting or bodybuilding standpoint. If they were given the right drugs, nutrition and programs I have no doubt that they could dominate the world of strength sports.

They will almost certainly never do this. Both will likely end up in the NFL within a year or two and will have their sights set on far different things than bench press records or bodybuilding trophies. I don’t believe that someone can reach the strength levels of a Mendelson or the muscularity of a Coleman without using steroids and making it their absolute focus. There may be people with the potential to surpass them, but until they go to those extreme levels there is absolutely no comparison. A 5’8 280 lb natural man with a high body fat percentage will not surpass the likes of 330 lb steroid-using relatively lean Mendelson or even a 290 lb steroid-using lean Stan Efferding. It’s just not going to happen. The focus isn’t there, the drive isn’t there and the methods arent there either. Lewhitehurst is NOT the genetic elite. [/quote]

F*ck that. ALI WAS NEVER KNOCKED OUT. He did lose 5 times. Now end this Bull

291

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
This was an interesting read. A lot of closed-mindedness floating about. I don’t find too much out there hard to believe when it comes to the human body and its potential. Unless we’re talking about comic book stuff. When did it become a fact that if you are great at something, you MUST advertise and sell yourself to the world as being great at it? When did doing something recreationally automatically place a limit on how well you can do it? Not everything gets put out there for the world to see.

Take for example, my last deployment to Iraq. There was a dude who looked pretty strong, but wasn’t of the bodybuilder mold. He favored more of a “farmhand” look. Well, this dude threw 495lbs on the bar and squat the shit for a dozen reps. He did this for three sets. I wish I remembered his name, but he hailed from MI. That kind of strength was “noticed” but went unheralded, as we had other things to be concerned about…like not dying. If someone has the ability to do something great, there is no requirement for that person to milk it for all its worth. There’s no requirement to post it on Youtube, or stop the presses. In the grand scheme of things, who cares? If that person doesn’t, why should the rest of us?

That’s all I’ve got for this thread. [/quote]

You just compared squatting 495 for 12 to inclining 495 for 15. That’s like comparing Rosanne Barr to Megan Fox. [/quote]

I believe that was an example and not a comparison.

I can’t prove that Lew can’t IP 495, anymore than he can prove it. So, I really can’t be bothered arguing about it.

Lew contributes more than the average guy, along with having a decent attitude and that’s all that matters to me.

I mean, if I can give somone who claims to be a 300lb vampire the benefit of the doubt, then why not Lew?

292

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]165StateChamp wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

People also forget that even pros have bad days/games. Muhammad Ali got knocked out by 5 greats (or was it more) but nobody says Rocky Marciano (undefeated) was better than Muhammad Ali.

[/quote]

Sorry, but this is just wrong. I would read up a little bit more before using this as an example. The majority of Muhammad Ali’s losses by decision came at the end of his career when most agreed that he shouldn’t have been fighting anymore. He was clearly the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time based on his earlier accomplishments. Was Michael Jordan not the greatest because he decided to play for the Wizards?

On topic, I don’t believe Lewhitehurst’s claims. However, I do believe that there are people out there who are more genetically gifted than many champion powerlifters/bodybuilders/Olympic lifters. These people often turn to other sports so their potential is never realized. On OU’s football team right now there are two players, a freshman and a sophomore, who are insanely gifted from both a bodybuilding and powerlifting standpoint. They can be assumed to be natural based on NCAA testing. They definitely don’t pay much mind to their nutrition and their training programs aren’t optimal from either a powerlifting or bodybuilding standpoint. If they were given the right drugs, nutrition and programs I have no doubt that they could dominate the world of strength sports.

They will almost certainly never do this. Both will likely end up in the NFL within a year or two and will have their sights set on far different things than bench press records or bodybuilding trophies. I don’t believe that someone can reach the strength levels of a Mendelson or the muscularity of a Coleman without using steroids and making it their absolute focus. There may be people with the potential to surpass them, but until they go to those extreme levels there is absolutely no comparison. A 5’8 280 lb natural man with a high body fat percentage will not surpass the likes of 330 lb steroid-using relatively lean Mendelson or even a 290 lb steroid-using lean Stan Efferding. It’s just not going to happen. The focus isn’t there, the drive isn’t there and the methods arent there either. Lewhitehurst is NOT the genetic elite. [/quote]

F*ck that. ALI WAS NEVER KNOCKED OUT. He did lose 5 times. Now end this Bull [/quote]

I say the big fallacy he was trying to point out is that NO ONE thinks that Marciano was better than Ali. I for one think both were great, but that Marciano would have destroyed him if both were to fight at their best. I am one person who thinks this, so that makes Ponce wrong for stating that not one person thinks that. btw i am not shitting on Ali, i think he is one of the top 3 athletes all time

293

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
This was an interesting read. A lot of closed-mindedness floating about. I don’t find too much out there hard to believe when it comes to the human body and its potential. Unless we’re talking about comic book stuff. When did it become a fact that if you are great at something, you MUST advertise and sell yourself to the world as being great at it? When did doing something recreationally automatically place a limit on how well you can do it? Not everything gets put out there for the world to see.

Take for example, my last deployment to Iraq. There was a dude who looked pretty strong, but wasn’t of the bodybuilder mold. He favored more of a “farmhand” look. Well, this dude threw 495lbs on the bar and squat the shit for a dozen reps. He did this for three sets. I wish I remembered his name, but he hailed from MI. That kind of strength was “noticed” but went unheralded, as we had other things to be concerned about…like not dying. If someone has the ability to do something great, there is no requirement for that person to milk it for all its worth. There’s no requirement to post it on Youtube, or stop the presses. In the grand scheme of things, who cares? If that person doesn’t, why should the rest of us?

That’s all I’ve got for this thread. [/quote]

You just compared squatting 495 for 12 to inclining 495 for 15. That’s like comparing Rosanne Barr to Megan Fox. [/quote]

I believe that was an example and not a comparison.

I can’t prove that Lew can’t IP 495, anymore than he can prove it. So, I really can’t be bothered arguing about it.

Lew contributes more than the average guy, along with having a decent attitude and that’s all that matters to me.

I mean, if I can give somone who claims to be a 300lb vampire the benefit of the doubt, then why not Lew?
[/quote]

I hope you’re not serious…

294

Sorry, lost 5 fights, not knockouts. I was incorrect. And I should’ve worded this better, because we’re getting into sports history and there are clearly people who know the history of a certain sport (e.g. boxing) better than others (e.g. me).

And I was NOT trying to make the point that Lew–specifically–could be stronger than some world record holders, but that you DON’T have to be competing in a certain event (i.e. be a true “pro”) to necessarily reach an accomplishment beyond the people who DO compete in that event. As a general rule. Not saying Lew incline presses more than some record holders, but that it is STATISTICALLY POSSIBLE.

Someone please explain to me how that does NOT make sense, without derailing this thread into one about boxing history.

Never putting in effort and not competing are independent. And when someone has an athletic background–like Lew–you are even more wrong in your statement.

[quote] dshroy wrote:

I am one person who thinks this, so that makes Ponce wrong for stating that not one person thinks that.
[/quote]

Ok, so you are one of those philosophy perverts who distracts from the core of the statement (the spirit of what was said) by discrediting the argument based on “no one” vs. “most people” ? Come on, dude.

And I’m talking about record. Ali wasn’t undefeated, but he’s not regarded any less than someone like Marciano who WAS undefeated.

(I’ll continue this discussion via PM, because I don’t want to derail a thread and turn into speculative matches between historical fighters/athletes)

295

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Look up Ramanujan (mathematics). People often say the likes of Einstein, etc. have never been seen again. This man was in a fucking village and essentially discovered Calculus ON HIS OWN. Over 100 years of equations he figured out on his own, with only exposure to a single western text on mathematics. How is that possible? Well, it was. It happened.[/quote]

It happened, but not like that. He had access to many textbooks, although they were outdated by the standards of the time, and went to school and later college. He did not rediscover calculus as far as we know, but he did discover thousands of original results. Everyone that knew Ramanujan knew he had exceptional talent, and when he wrote to G.H. Hardy he immediately recognised his genius.

And what you’re forgetting is that it’s normal for great mathematical geniuses to rediscover things for themselves. Grothendieck, the greatest mathematician of the 20th century, developed measure theory independently while he was at university.
[/quote]

Re: Ramanujan

That’s not what I read and I will go back tonight and re-read the story (not from Wikipedia). I am pretty sure he did not have access to “many” textbooks.

296

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Sorry, lost 5 fights, not knockouts. I was incorrect. And I should’ve worded this better, because we’re getting into sports history and there are clearly people who know the history of a certain sport (e.g. boxing) better than others (e.g. me).

And I was NOT trying to make the point that Lew–specifically–could be stronger than some world record holders, but that you DON’T have to be competing in a certain event (i.e. be a true “pro”) to necessarily reach an accomplishment beyond the people who DO compete in that event. As a general rule. Not saying Lew incline presses more than some record holders, but that it is STATISTICALLY POSSIBLE.

Someone please explain to me how that does NOT make sense, without derailing this thread into one about boxing history.

Never putting in effort and not competing are independent. And when someone has an athletic background–like Lew–you are even more wrong in your statement.

[quote] dshroy wrote:

I am one person who thinks this, so that makes Ponce wrong for stating that not one person thinks that.
[/quote]

Ok, so you are one of those philosophy perverts who distracts from the core of the statement (the spirit of what was said) by discrediting the argument based on “no one” vs. “most people” ? Come on, dude.

And I’m talking about record. Ali wasn’t undefeated, but he’s not regarded any less than someone like Marciano who WAS undefeated.

(I’ll continue this discussion via PM, because I don’t want to derail a thread and turn into speculative matches between historical fighters/athletes)

[/quote]

How can you be the best when you have not competed against the best in the world and proven yourself? You can put in all the effort you want who cares.

297

Since it has been IGNORED many times.

Honestly, Strongholds post in that thread should put an end to the discussion:

“Ok, here’s the thing. You’re not only claiming that you were at one point stronger than a world record holder ON THAT DAY, but rather that you were at one point stronger than EVERY world record holder in the HISTORY OF LIFTING. Every individual that I have ever seen move that weight for ~5 reps has been benching well over 600 lbs. Doing it for 15 means you are likely pushing 700 on bench. There is ONE man in the HISTORY of lifting who has ever been that strong. ONE. You’re claiming to be at that level without the use of anabolics (if IIRC). That actually puts you ahead of him, since Mendelson is a drug boat. So what you are essentially claiming, is that you, on your best day, as an amateur drug free lifter weighing somewhere under 300 lbs possessed more pressing power than the strongest raw presser in the history of lifting to date did on his best day at well north of 330 lbs and sauced to the gills.”

The only people who are agreeing with LWH are the ones who aren’t very strong themselves and have no concept of the weights being lifted here.

298

[quote]detazathoth wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
This was an interesting read. A lot of closed-mindedness floating about. I don’t find too much out there hard to believe when it comes to the human body and its potential. Unless we’re talking about comic book stuff. When did it become a fact that if you are great at something, you MUST advertise and sell yourself to the world as being great at it? When did doing something recreationally automatically place a limit on how well you can do it? Not everything gets put out there for the world to see.

Take for example, my last deployment to Iraq. There was a dude who looked pretty strong, but wasn’t of the bodybuilder mold. He favored more of a “farmhand” look. Well, this dude threw 495lbs on the bar and squat the shit for a dozen reps. He did this for three sets. I wish I remembered his name, but he hailed from MI. That kind of strength was “noticed” but went unheralded, as we had other things to be concerned about…like not dying. If someone has the ability to do something great, there is no requirement for that person to milk it for all its worth. There’s no requirement to post it on Youtube, or stop the presses. In the grand scheme of things, who cares? If that person doesn’t, why should the rest of us?

That’s all I’ve got for this thread. [/quote]

You just compared squatting 495 for 12 to inclining 495 for 15. That’s like comparing Rosanne Barr to Megan Fox. [/quote]

I believe that was an example and not a comparison.

I can’t prove that Lew can’t IP 495, anymore than he can prove it. So, I really can’t be bothered arguing about it.

Lew contributes more than the average guy, along with having a decent attitude and that’s all that matters to me.

I mean, if I can give somone who claims to be a 300lb vampire the benefit of the doubt, then why not Lew?
[/quote]

I hope you’re not serious…[/quote]

Hope has abandoned you tonight, son.

I’m serious.

299

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

The only people who are agreeing with LWH are the ones who aren’t very strong themselves and have no concept of the weights being lifted here.
[/quote]

Right…none of us knows what “heavy” feels like. We are not very strong because we aren’t bashing a claim someone made. Because we are either open-minded to the possibility, or just don’t care, we are relegated to weak-average status in the gym. You hit the nail on the head with that one, guy. Kudos to you.

300

[quote]Beast27195 wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

The only people who are agreeing with LWH are the ones who aren’t very strong themselves and have no concept of the weights being lifted here.
[/quote]

Right…none of us knows what “heavy” feels like. We are not very strong because we aren’t bashing a claim someone made. Because we are either open-minded to the possibility, or just don’t care, we are relegated to weak-average status in the gym. You hit the nail on the head with that one, guy. Kudos to you. [/quote]

That was part of the quote above, THANKS for ignoring the rest like most who agree have.