Best Upper Body Lift for Athletic Performance?

Training
1

I am training for college rugby and have been on a modified WS4SB template for the past couple months. So far the only lift I have set a PR goal for is my box squat, and my original plan was to focus almost exclusively on hypertrophy on my upper body days. However I’ve been lacking motivation during my upper body days and have decided to set a PR goal for an upper body lift. However, what lift most directly translates to athletic performance? So far I have been concentrating on incline presses and military presses. Out of these exercises listed in the WS4SB program:

Thick bar or regular barbell bench press
Barbell floor press
Rack lockouts
Incline barbell bench press (regular grip or close grip)
Close-grip bench press (index finger on smooth part of bar)
Weighted chin-ups

as well as Standing and Seated Overhead Presses,

what will most directly help my athletic performance?

2

Practicing your sport. Seriously. There’s so many questions that need to be answered before giving an opinion, but if pressed I’d go with either the bench, weighted chins or push press. But, since I doubt you’re forced to choose just one lift why not find which one you feel transfers the best and plan your accessory work around improving that lift, muscular balance and injury prevention?

3

Why are you modifying it? It’s fine the way it is.

Why are you focusing on PR’s? It’s not about lifting PR’s.

4

[quote]dk6666 wrote:
I am training for college rugby and have been on a modified WS4SB template for the past couple months.[/quote]
What’s your current bodyweight and current best lifts on the basic exercises - squat, deaadlift, flat bench, overhead press, row?

Clean and press.

This is a different question than above.

The answer to this one is, “Following the program exactly as written. Joe DeFranco knows how to build strong, muscular athletes.”

5

[quote]JFG wrote:
Why are you modifying it? It’s fine the way it is.

Why are you focusing on PR’s? It’s not about lifting PR’s.[/quote]

I’m modifying it to include more speed work, conditioning, skill work, as well as power cleans on dynamic lower body days.

I was under the impression westside templates were about trying to hit a new PR every week.

6

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]dk6666 wrote:
I am training for college rugby and have been on a modified WS4SB template for the past couple months.[/quote]
What’s your current bodyweight and current best lifts on the basic exercises - squat, deaadlift, flat bench, overhead press, row?

Clean and press.

This is a different question than above.

The answer to this one is, “Following the program exactly as written. Joe DeFranco knows how to build strong, muscular athletes.”[/quote]

My current bodyweight is between 176 and 178. I started the winter off at a weak 168 though so I’ve definitely made progress in my size, and my goal by August is to be in the 185-190 range.

I’ve only maxed out on my box squat this spring and I’m at 315.I’m repping out low 300s on deadlift easily, I haven’t benched since football season since my college coach told me not to focus on it, I just started overhead pressing and am only doing 95 for 5 reps, and I’ve never maxed out on row but I do sets of 10 with 135 fairly easily.

7

[quote]dk6666 wrote:
I’m modifying it to include more speed work, conditioning, skill work, as well as power cleans on dynamic lower body days.

I was under the impression westside templates were about trying to hit a new PR every week.[/quote]
I take it you’re doing WS4SB 3, correct? Depending on how close you are to rugby season, you may not need to be focusing too much on speed work and such. It’s an added training burden you’ll need to recover from, plus it’s burning calories that could otherwise be adding muscle.

You might want to consider a different plan for a few months, but again, that depends a lot on what your timetable looks like.

I saw that in your thread this past January, you were 5’10". Are you still the same height or have you had a growth spurt?

You’ve made some progress, which is good, but it’s going slower than it needs to be. What, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

Read this article, The Athlete Diet, and make sure you’re following the steps discussed:

Lower body strength seems on track, but your upper body strength needs attention.

If you haven’t benched since football season and you’ve only just started overhead pressing, what exactly have you been doing for upper body training?

8

[quote]dk6666 wrote:

[quote]JFG wrote:
Why are you modifying it? It’s fine the way it is.

Why are you focusing on PR’s? It’s not about lifting PR’s.[/quote]

I’m modifying it to include more speed work, conditioning, skill work, as well as power cleans on dynamic lower body days.

I was under the impression westside templates were about trying to hit a new PR every week.[/quote]

The program IS set up for speed, conditioning and skill work. Just follow it.

Westside and WS4SB is two different beasts. Again, stick to the program. You now know why your upper body is lagging.

And listen to Chris :slight_smile:

9

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[
I take it you’re doing WS4SB 3, correct? Depending on how close you are to rugby season, you may not need to be focusing too much on speed work and such. It’s an added training burden you’ll need to recover from, plus it’s burning calories that could otherwise be adding muscle.

You might want to consider a different plan for a few months, but again, that depends a lot on what your timetable looks like.
[/quote]

Yeah I’m doing the strength/speed template with an added conditioning day on Wednesday and on my Dynamic Upper body day and vertimax training added as a conditioning finisher. Rugby season starts up in August and I think for rugby, being in good condition is more important than being big and strong. I am planning on moving to scrumhalf in college, and right now I probably outweigh the average college scrumhalf by 10 odd pounds and speed/fitness is my main focus. What training plan would you recommend?

[quote]I saw that in your thread this past January, you were 5’10". Are you still the same height or have you had a growth spurt?

You’ve made some progress, which is good, but it’s going slower than it needs to be. What, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

Read this article, The Athlete Diet, and make sure you’re following the steps discussed:

Nope I’m still at the same height. Yesterday I skipped breakfast cause I was in a hurry and cause I’m dumb and ate a MetRX Meal Replacement bar, another one for my snack, came home and ate the six eggs I was supposed to eat for breakfast and then went and got a chipolte double steak burrito. I had a 50 gram post workout protein shake with creatine and then for dinner I had pork chops and another shake after dinner. I’ll read the article either later tonight or tomorrow cause I’ve got homework I’m procrastinating on right now.

[quote]Lower body strength seems on track, but your upper body strength needs attention.

If you haven’t benched since football season and you’ve only just started overhead pressing, what exactly have you been doing for upper body training?[/quote]

The focus of my upper body days has mainly been hypertrophy. I’ve been alternating between floor press and embarrassingly low incline presses on Max Effort days and do max reps with 135 flat bench on dynamic effort days. When I talked to the rugby coach for the school I’m going to next year he told me not to focus on bench and said something about shoulder presses so I started overhead pressing.

10

[quote]dk6666 wrote:
Rugby season starts up in August[/quote]
That’s still a long way off. The off-season, right now, is the ideal time to add size. Making hypertrophy the number one goal will let you progress faster and still leaves plenty of time, as the season approaches, to re-focus on conditioning.

Dude, then why have you been trying to get up to 190 since last September?
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/bulking_for_sports_and_improving_my_physique_

And holy sweet mother of pearl… look at that… I just realized I gave you almost the exact same advice I’m giving you now, six and a half months ago. Makes me feel oh-so-good for putting in the effort.

This is news to me. I could’ve sworn you said your goal was “to be in the 185-190 range.”

The same training plans I recommended six and a half months ago. The original WS4SB or Dan John’s Mass Made Simple. You do not, right now, need to be doing conditioning more than once or twice a week, if that.

This is exactly why I asked. Nine times out of ten (or technically I think it was about 7 times out of 12 last time I ran the real numbers), when I ask someone, “What did you eat yesterday?” people, if they answer at all, tend to come back with, “Well, ya see, yesterday was crazy so I missed a few meals.” Funny how that happens.

I’m just saying, be aware of how often you actually end up missing meals for whatever reason. It does sound like you did what you could to make up for what you missed, but at the most basic level, if you’re trying to gain weight and the scale’s not moving, you need more calories - protein, fat, and carbs.

11

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
That’s still a long way off. The off-season, right now, is the ideal time to add size. Making hypertrophy the number one goal will let you progress faster and still leaves plenty of time, as the season approaches, to re-focus on conditioning.[/quote]

When would you say a good time to start really focusing on conditioning would be then? Would you recommend focusing on hypertrophy more than strength and power?

[quote]Dude, then why have you been trying to get up to 190 since last September?
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/bulking_for_sports_and_improving_my_physique_[/quote]

Because I set goals in every aspect of my training.

That’s my goal in terms of hypertrophy and weight training but size doesn’t mean shit if you’re not well conditioned.

[quote]The same training plans I recommended six and a half months ago. The original WS4SB or Dan John’s Mass Made Simple. You do not, right now, need to be doing conditioning more than once or twice a week, if that.
[/quote]

Why would you say the original WS4SB is better than 3? Conditioning aside I think it’s a more simple program and I like the template for lifting better. Should I continue to focus on hypertrophy or find a lift to set PR goals for throughout the program?
The fact is as a rugby player conditioning is something I can’t avoid. I’m practicing 3 times a week with a team right now and I’m gonna play rugby sevens in the summer. It’s the off season because it’s not fall but there really isnt an off season for rugby like there is for football.
I never really worried about conditioning in high school, but playing at the next level I want to be in the best shape I’ve ever been. I definitely want to be as big as I can be as well but I’ve made good gains this spring so far and I’m near halfway to my target weight already so conditioning hasn’t hurt me too much yet.

[quote]This is exactly why I asked. Nine times out of ten (or technically I think it was about 7 times out of 12 last time I ran the real numbers), when I ask someone, “What did you eat yesterday?” people, if they answer at all, tend to come back with, “Well, ya see, yesterday was crazy so I missed a few meals.” Funny how that happens.

I’m just saying, be aware of how often you actually end up missing meals for whatever reason. It does sound like you did what you could to make up for what you missed, but at the most basic level, if you’re trying to gain weight and the scale’s not moving, you need more calories - protein, fat, and carbs.
[/quote]

I ended up eating the same amount of food as I plan to though, does not eating them during the planned meal make a significant difference? Right now my diet plan is really bare bones; it’s just 3 meals with 6 eggs or 8+ oz of meat, and 3 shakes or bars with sides of patatoes vegetables and wheat bread. It’s gotten me results but you’re definitely right that I could be eating a lot better. The Athlete Diet is a good plan, but should I be that picky in terms of the quality of the food I eat at my age and with the amount of conditioning I do? Pretty much right now I’m on the pick food up and put it in my mouth meal plan, but I haven’t gained a significant amount of fat. Also I’m not sure we could afford to eat that well all the time tbh, my moms already complaining about how much I eat.

12

Everyone here is wasting their time. This kid is apparently gonna do what he wants no matter the advice given.

13

Then, either do WS4SB v3 AS WRITTEN

or look up Mauro Di Pascale rugby training.

They are similar.

Also, open your mind when someone gives you rock solid advice and calls you out on your “ADD” goals.

Chris is the “Patron Guru of Newbs” and every year we celebrate his patience by downing a Spike shooter in his honor.

14

[quote]JFG wrote:
Then, either do WS4SB v3 AS WRITTEN

or look up Mauro Di Pascale rugby training.

They are similar.

Also, open your mind when someone gives you rock solid advice and calls you out on your “ADD” goals.

Chris is the “Patron Guru of Newbs” and every year we celebrate his patience by downing a Spike shooter in his honor.[/quote]

Well Defranco basically tells you to modify the conditioning to suit your needs in v3.

I talked to my coach at practice today about getting ready for college, and he wants me and another kid on my team whos playing in college to focus on bulking up and skills primarily and he’s going to have us do skill drills instead of conditioning in practice.

I’m not sure how setting speed and conditioning goals is “ADD” though and I don’t think Chris was saying that. He is right that now is the best time to focus on bulking up though, and I think it takes a lot less time to build up endurance than to put on size.

Anyways I’m going to switch to the original Skinny Bastards template and do vertimax for GPP and one day of conditioning on Friday just to maintain fitness right now.

Edit: After looking over Mass Made Simple I’m actually going to switch to that so I guess I’ll be focusing on BP and military press for upper body.