Bonzi50 I sent you a personal message.
We’ve apologized. Now to get on with the discussion.
Hang cleans, heavy deep squats, overhead squats, coupled with some plyo’s have really improved my vertical jump.
But don’t forget you’ve got to practice dunking. it is possible to have a vert. capable of dunking and still not be able to dunk because of your approach, speed, take off point etc.
I had a 33" vert for a long time before i was able to dunk. it just wasn’t a priority and so every time I would try i wasn’t able to dunk it cleanly and forcefully. I practiced every other day for a week or so and then i got it.
That?s all i got.
[quote]beans wrote:
I’ve seen a lot of people saw already, but speed is the problem here, not limit strength.
I’m the perfect example. I used to be able to dunk before I had reconstructive knee surgery. So now, two years post surgery, my leg strength maxes are all about 10% higher than before my surgery. My legs are slmost stronger than they’ve ever been, definitely stronger than when I could dunk just a few years ago. My flexibility is also just about equal to what it was but I can’t quite dunk yet. Why? Because I don’t do near as much jumping and plyo-type excercises. When I gather to jump one footed or two footed (I used to be abel to dunk both ways) now I just feel really sluggish and I can’t get quite the same explosiveness.
When your strength levels are solid, the best way to jump higher is just to practice jumping higher. Weights alone can’t maximize your athletic ability, you also have to develop the athletic movement too.[/quote]
well put… I should have read your post before i posted mine. you’ve got to develop that fluid, coordinated, explosive athletic movement. thanks
jtrinsey wrote:
Check out his thread on the DB hammer message board. He has a pretty detailed workout log there.
The forum also has a lot of other cool stuff to check out.
jtrin,
is that at inno-sport? I’m having trouble finding it. thanks,
TR
Sorry to bump this up guys, but to answer your question, it is on dbhammerproboards, type that into google.
Oh, and for the guy that started this thread, you most likely need some force absorbtion work. Drop jumps from a few inches higher than your current vertical jump work wonders.
This might also be of interest for your vertical
[quote]CU AeroStallion wrote:
djm_e22 wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
“I weigh 145lbs and have parallel squated 365lbs 7 times.”
Not to be a dick, but I’m calling bullshit on this. If you really can parallel squat 365 7 times at a bodyweight of 145 (putting your one-rep max at about 400-420 pounds- almost 3X your bodyweight), you should have no problem at all dunking as it is.
Man, I swear on my life I have done 365lbs 7 reps with a belt. I should say it was a powerlifting wide style squat. The other day I did 315 7 reps shoulder width stance(not near as wide) without a belt.
Usually when people put up fake looking numbers and someone says they went to parallel they were short of it, and if they say “ass to grass” they were about at parallel. At least this is what I’ve observed calling bullshit in real life.
Then again, I’ve been proven wrong once when calling BS.
once.
(anyone wanna call BS on that?)[/quote]
Haven’t you non-believers ever heard of the little engine that could???
[quote]E-man wrote:
CU AeroStallion wrote:
djm_e22 wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
“I weigh 145lbs and have parallel squated 365lbs 7 times.”
Not to be a dick, but I’m calling bullshit on this. If you really can parallel squat 365 7 times at a bodyweight of 145 (putting your one-rep max at about 400-420 pounds- almost 3X your bodyweight), you should have no problem at all dunking as it is.
Man, I swear on my life I have done 365lbs 7 reps with a belt. I should say it was a powerlifting wide style squat. The other day I did 315 7 reps shoulder width stance(not near as wide) without a belt.
Usually when people put up fake looking numbers and someone says they went to parallel they were short of it, and if they say “ass to grass” they were about at parallel. At least this is what I’ve observed calling bullshit in real life.
Then again, I’ve been proven wrong once when calling BS.
once.
(anyone wanna call BS on that?)
Haven’t you non-believers ever heard of the little engine that could???[/quote]
Yes, but we have heard a helluva lot more little engines that couldn’t but swear to high heaven they did one time when their knee wasn’t hurting them. Not saying you can or you can’t- it’s useless arguining about numbers over the internet for the most part.
Either next week or the week after I will have my friend video record me trying for 375lbs for 6 to 7 reps that way no one can question the 365lbs, plus I will do shoulder stance instead of my really wide stance. I have never done 375lbs for this many reps especially not at a shoulder stance, but I figured all the not believing will help motivate me.
Here is my myspace site, that it will go on Featured Content on Myspace I have video’s of me being a goof. The last one might make you laugh. I am not doing this to say I told you say, more just to motivate me to do even higher weight.
Sounds good…just make sure it is an ass to calf squat. Parallel and 1/2 squats don’t count.
I dont understand why everyone is so high on the squat. A poster above me was talking about an acclaimed coach who said that the muscles responsible for jumpin are not those found in the 1st half of the motion. Of course everyone knows this is the case. But if you look at someone trying to jump high off two feet they do not resemble a squat in any way shape or form.
When someone vertical jumps they are basically trying create a rapid eccentric motion and the hip and ankle, I would go as far as to say the knee flexion is behind the first two in terms of importance. Also, this is done in a very small ROM relative to how lifts are done. The whole trick when jumping is to create tension at these joints rapidly, this is also done in a relatively short ROM. So, high tension, small ROM, get up fast and high.
Now, yes the muscles at the bottom of a squat are those responsible for jumping, and Im not saying that deep squats dont help jumping ability, however, why not use an exercise that involves the posterior chain in much the same way jumping does by getting it involved right away, not at past 90 degrees of knee flexion like a squat, work on the deadlift!!!
[quote]TrenchDawg wrote:
Sounds good…just make sure it is an ass to calf squat. Parallel and 1/2 squats don’t count.[/quote]
I never said I did full squats I just said squats. So I will do my best to go parallel like they require in powerlifting competition, if I’m not mistaken.
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
I dont understand why everyone is so high on the squat. A poster above me was talking about an acclaimed coach who said that the muscles responsible for jumpin are not those found in the 1st half of the motion. Of course everyone knows this is the case. But if you look at someone trying to jump high off two feet they do not resemble a squat in any way shape or form.
When someone vertical jumps they are basically trying create a rapid eccentric motion and the hip and ankle, I would go as far as to say the knee flexion is behind the first two in terms of importance. Also, this is done in a very small ROM relative to how lifts are done. The whole trick when jumping is to create tension at these joints rapidly, this is also done in a relatively short ROM. So, high tension, small ROM, get up fast and high.
Now, yes the muscles at the bottom of a squat are those responsible for jumping, and Im not saying that deep squats dont help jumping ability, however, why not use an exercise that involves the posterior chain in much the same way jumping does by getting it involved right away, not at past 90 degrees of knee flexion like a squat, work on the deadlift!!![/quote]
Do you really think deadlifting helps alot more than squats for vertical? Can anyone else back him up cause if so I may want to start doing them, cause I haven’t done deadlifts probably in two years. Maybe this will help me alot.
Deadlifting can help your vertical. It may help a lot, since you haven’t done them in a long time, or it may not help at all. As you know, deadlifting strengthens the posterior chain, which are some of the muscles used in jumping.
Like mentioned before. There is no universal miracle lift that will make someone improve jumping ability. Some people react better to different types of training.
Remember this though: Jumping is about speed first strength second. The faster you jump, the higher you’ll go. You also need strength to amplify the speed, the combination is called power. You have to use them both to be powerful. So improving strength is good, whether it’s oly squats, pl squats, deadlifts, GHR’s, etc., but remember that you have to jump fast to jump high.
Strength + speed = power
Example me:
I tested my vertical in Oct = 32.5"
good, but not good enough to dunk (5’11, 195lbs). This was with no leg training for 1 full year and no plyos for about 8 yrs. I had room to improve. My method of attack was to gain strength, and do plyos at the same time.
Since coming back from a disc injury, I chose front squats because of less stress on my injury. I started at about 200lbs (no leg work for 12months) and within 2-3 months I was front squatting 275. During that time I deadlifted also, and made nice gains. I was doing only box jumps and basketball rim touching jumps(non reactive jumps). Within that 2-3 month time my vertical jumped 3.5". I gained 5 lbs over that time. I was 5’11 200lbs and jumping 36".
Why did I make improvements?
a.)I worked on overall leg strength. The focus on leg strength was nearly all posterior chain:
1.The lowest front squats that one could imagine (everyone at “my” gym thinks I’m crazy because nobody has ever seen someone squat as low as me, even though it’s common among us at T-Nation)
2.Deadlifts and variations (standing on a box etc.)
3.GHR’s (that’s the ticket! I recently did a full strict rep holding a 35lb plate!!)
4.Pistols and weighted pistols.
5.Cleans and Snatches.
6.Hypers
If I could do it over, I’d add lunges and tons of ab work.
b.)Speed work, as mentioned before I did simple jumping drills, box jumps (42-48") and rim jumps.
This is what I did to jump higher. There is so much more I can do to maximize greater heights. Lose bodyfat, work on landings (depth stuff),abs, etc.
If I did only the strength exercises listed above, I probably would have improved marginally. If I did only the plyos, I probably wouldn’t have gained anything (I was lacking strength). I set up a program to do both. I picked out some major weaknesses that I had and I attacked them for a few months.
I would suggest you do the same. Find out where you are weak (you haven’t deadlifted in a year huh?),address those weaknesses.
Work on speed and strength, practice jumping explosively and you’ll convert your new found strengths into power.
I can’t believe that I turned a simple “can deadlifting help me jump higher” question into a long rant. I always start typing and I just CAN’T stop sometimes.
Since this thread seems to never die, you guys can pick apart my madness and tell me if I’m on track or not with my “advice”.
[quote]Kir Dog wrote:
There is no universal miracle lift that will make someone improve jumping ability.[/quote]
Can everybody repeat this outloud.
Repeat it again.
Once more.
Ok, now let’s all get back to lifting.
What if i can’t do a full squat? I tried doing it, but can’t get my glutes to touch my calves. I get get to parallel though…
Well, looks like i have to concentrate more on deadlift?
I can’t do full squats… I’d fall over.
Should i concentrate more on deadlift?
[quote]bonzi50 wrote:
We’ve apologized. Now to get on with the discussion.
Hang cleans, heavy deep squats, overhead squats, coupled with some plyo’s have really improved my vertical jump.
But don’t forget you’ve got to practice dunking. it is possible to have a vert. capable of dunking and still not be able to dunk because of your approach, speed, take off point etc.
I had a 33" vert for a long time before i was able to dunk. it just wasn’t a priority and so every time I would try i wasn’t able to dunk it cleanly and forcefully. I practiced every other day for a week or so and then i got it.
That?s all i got. [/quote]
Yes, technique is VERY important, I’m getting 20cm over the rim now and only 5cm if I try to bring the ball up, I guess I have to work on jumping in a smooth motion, I find that when I take the two steps with the ball, there is a slight pause between the final step and the arm swing (this is a two footed approach by the way). Good technique can get you 2-5" higher. I’m going to work on it. Also, any people also have problems jumping up and touching/grabbing the rim with two hands. I mean I get most my whole hand over the rim and I only get 5cm above the rim with both hands, I feel like I can grab the rim easily with both but I can’t. Could it be an imbalance between arm swings from both of my hands? Any help would be appreciated.
*I dont understand why everyone is so high on the squat. A poster above me was talking about an acclaimed coach who said that the muscles responsible for jumpin are not those found in the 1st half of the motion. Of course everyone knows this is the case.
thats not common knowledge…people here were advocating half squats, so clearly that is not common knowledge
But if you look at someone trying to jump high off two feet they do not resemble a squat in any way shape or form.
one of the ways they test verticals on a vertec mimics a squat…and its a method alot of people use
Also, this is done in a very small ROM relative to how lifts are done. The whole trick when jumping is to create tension at these joints rapidly, this is also done in a relatively short ROM. So, high tension, small ROM, get up fast and high.**
zatsiorsky’s chapter on why sprinters and track athletes deeply need weight training addresses all these issues but in short and to keep it simple olympic style squats have a great range of motion because they are in the deepest squatting position those muscles are responsible for vertical jumping
Now, yes the muscles at the bottom of a squat are those responsible for jumping, and Im not saying that deep squats dont help jumping ability, however, why not use an exercise that involves the posterior chain in much the same way jumping does by getting it involved right away, not at past 90 degrees of knee flexion like a squat, work on the deadlift!!!*
i have never heard of anyone using the deadlift over the squat to increase vertical but i could see it being enormously effective, possibly more so than a squat if it were practiced explosively with about 60% of ones 1rm, this would be an effective way to increase vertical for someone who had no access to a coach who could properly teach clean and snatch pulls
[quote]Airness wrote:
bonzi50 wrote:
We’ve apologized. Now to get on with the discussion.
Hang cleans, heavy deep squats, overhead squats, coupled with some plyo’s have really improved my vertical jump.
But don’t forget you’ve got to practice dunking. it is possible to have a vert. capable of dunking and still not be able to dunk because of your approach, speed, take off point etc.
I had a 33" vert for a long time before i was able to dunk. it just wasn’t a priority and so every time I would try i wasn’t able to dunk it cleanly and forcefully. I practiced every other day for a week or so and then i got it.
That?s all i got.
Yes, technique is VERY important, I’m getting 20cm over the rim now and only 5cm if I try to bring the ball up, I guess I have to work on jumping in a smooth motion, I find that when I take the two steps with the ball, there is a slight pause between the final step and the arm swing (this is a two footed approach by the way). Good technique can get you 2-5" higher. I’m going to work on it. Also, any people also have problems jumping up and touching/grabbing the rim with two hands. I mean I get most my whole hand over the rim and I only get 5cm above the rim with both hands, I feel like I can grab the rim easily with both but I can’t. Could it be an imbalance between arm swings from both of my hands? Any help would be appreciated.
[/quote]
Very good point. What you have to do is yes get your approach smooth etc. Also, you must work on dunking from a variety of different angles. Depending on which hand you jump with and whether you can palm the ball easily, that should determine your usual approach foot. If you can palm the ball easily then you should lead with the opposite foot. So, if you are righty, lead with left follow with right foot and dunk with right hand. If you have trouble palming the ball it will probably be easier to lead with the right foot, follow with the left and dunk with the right. But in the second description you have to hold the ball as you would putting a piece of paper flat on your hand and waving it around, but keeping it on your hand, its the same principle.