Like I said, not going to argue with anyone anymore. I’m not saying it’s a complicated program at all, nor criticizing people’s experience in the lifts. What I was saying is that people don’t understand is the way the loading in the program works with the “performance curves,” in page 286 of the book.
[quote]PlasmaShock wrote:
Like I said, not going to argue with anyone anymore. I’m not saying it’s a complicated program at all, nor criticizing people’s experience in the lifts. What I was saying is that people don’t understand is the way the loading in the program works with the “performance curves,” in page 286 of the book.[/quote]
You don’t have any clue how stupid you sound, do you?
Anyway… I went ahead and made an account over on that other forum so that they can enlighten me personally on the big picture I seem to be missing. I hope someone over there actually has pics/videos of their results, and that it’s not just going to be a bunch of guys saying they’ve made “incredible progress with the program” and then providing no real info or proof of what that progress is.
We’ll see.
Maybe I wouldn’t sound so “stupid” if you actually read the book. So I will not make anymore statements until you can demonstrate that you have read and understood it 
[quote]PlasmaShock wrote:
Like I said, not going to argue with anyone anymore. I’m not saying it’s a complicated program at all, nor criticizing people’s experience in the lifts. What I was saying is that people don’t understand is the way the loading in the program works with the “performance curves,” in page 286 of the book.[/quote]
Actually, what you were doing is calling people that don’t like the program, particularly mr. popular, dumbasses. You also implied (and everyone on the site you linked to directly stated) that anybody that doesn’t like the program is one of those gay bodybuilders who care about stupid things like looking good and having a balanced physique, which means they’re walking around on toothpicks because they only bench and curl. I’m also interested in seeing pictures of the superior physiques (particularly the massive thighs you’re all sporting) and squats of you and the rest of the members of that site. Hopefully mr. popular will get back to us soon, after all of you back up your talk.
What I find the most amusing is that anybody who doesn’t suck SS’s nuts is somehow uneducated, and the only way to be a “knowledgeable folk” is to suck said nuts.
Also, I’m surprised this hasn’t been mentioned yet, but dedicating an entire internet forum to a SINGLE training program screams “support group” more than anything else.
[quote]eeu743 wrote:
[quote]PlasmaShock wrote:
Like I said, not going to argue with anyone anymore. I’m not saying it’s a complicated program at all, nor criticizing people’s experience in the lifts. What I was saying is that people don’t understand is the way the loading in the program works with the “performance curves,” in page 286 of the book.[/quote]
Actually, what you were doing is calling people that don’t like the program, particularly mr. popular, dumbasses. You also implied (and everyone on the site you linked to directly stated) that anybody that doesn’t like the program is one of those gay bodybuilders who care about stupid things like looking good and having a balanced physique, which means they’re walking around on toothpicks because they only bench and curl. I’m also interested in seeing pictures of the superior physiques (particularly the massive thighs you’re all sporting) and squats of you and the rest of the members of that site. Hopefully mr. popular will get back to us soon, after all of you back up your talk.[/quote]
I may have been too harsh and quick to jump on people, you’re right. Again, no more statements about SS from me until the people who want to argue read the book 
Wow, just checked this thread again for shits and giggles, andlooks like it has taken a more interesting turn haha.
what was your original question again? lol
[quote]eeu743 wrote:
Mr popular and I did legs today, and he squatted 315, below parallel, with a normal stance, not extremely wide. He then went up to 365, and went to at least parallel, if not below (I wasn’t watching his depth as closely on this one, because I was more focused on making sure he didn’t need help). Guarantee that by the end of the year, and probably by the end of June, he’ll be squatting at least 405, below parallel. Talk about uneducated.[/quote]
So what your saying is that ones training knowledge is based on ones strength level?
Which in turn validates ones opinion on a training topic. So going by that logic . If a person with bigger numbers was to enter this post wouldn’t there opinion carry more weight over the the less advanced lifter? Due to the fact that there larger numbers imply a higher knowledge base. That is what I get reading between the lines of your post.Am I wrong on that? I just want to make sure I’m not misunderstanding.
[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]mr popular wrote:
[quote]PlasmaShock wrote:
Well I’ve attatched an image that describes why arguing anymore will just be futile.
I’m beyond training starting strength. Not a zealot, but I very much dislike people shooting their mouths off about it when they do not know how the program works.
That’s all.[/quote]
It isn’t like it’s a complicated program. What exactly do you think I’m missing?[/quote]
Experience?[/quote]
You realize that Mr. Popular has likely performed every exercise prescribed in SS right (beside the clean most likely)? What’s so magical about SS’s arrangement that supposedly builds muscle in all these areas that it leaves out?[/quote]
FYI…you would sadly mistaken in talking down to me as if I was some newbie.
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]eeu743 wrote:
Mr popular and I did legs today, and he squatted 315, below parallel, with a normal stance, not extremely wide. He then went up to 365, and went to at least parallel, if not below (I wasn’t watching his depth as closely on this one, because I was more focused on making sure he didn’t need help). Guarantee that by the end of the year, and probably by the end of June, he’ll be squatting at least 405, below parallel. Talk about uneducated.[/quote]
So what your saying is that ones training knowledge is based on ones strength level?
Which in turn validates ones opinion on a training topic. So going by that logic . If a person with bigger numbers was to enter this post wouldn’t there opinion carry more weight over the the less advanced lifter? Due to the fact that there larger numbers imply a higher knowledge base. That is what I get reading between the lines of your post.Am I wrong on that? I just want to make sure I’m not misunderstanding.[/quote]
Haha. To a degree, yes. I would trust his opinions, considering his accomplishments and the fact that I know he has spent a great deal of time reading and learning about all things bodybuilding, strength, and nutrition related, over the opinions of someone who has been training twice as long, without being much bigger or stronger, if at all. Is it really so foreign to think that being good at something might give your opinion on that subject a little more weight?
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]mr popular wrote:
[quote]PlasmaShock wrote:
Well I’ve attatched an image that describes why arguing anymore will just be futile.
I’m beyond training starting strength. Not a zealot, but I very much dislike people shooting their mouths off about it when they do not know how the program works.
That’s all.[/quote]
It isn’t like it’s a complicated program. What exactly do you think I’m missing?[/quote]
Experience?[/quote]
You realize that Mr. Popular has likely performed every exercise prescribed in SS right (beside the clean most likely)? What’s so magical about SS’s arrangement that supposedly builds muscle in all these areas that it leaves out?[/quote]
FYI…you would sadly mistaken in talking down to me as if I was some newbie.[/quote]
If that’s what you got from what I said, then I’m sorry.
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]mr popular wrote:
[quote]PlasmaShock wrote:
Well I’ve attatched an image that describes why arguing anymore will just be futile.
I’m beyond training starting strength. Not a zealot, but I very much dislike people shooting their mouths off about it when they do not know how the program works.
That’s all.[/quote]
It isn’t like it’s a complicated program. What exactly do you think I’m missing?[/quote]
Experience?[/quote]
You realize that Mr. Popular has likely performed every exercise prescribed in SS right (beside the clean most likely)? What’s so magical about SS’s arrangement that supposedly builds muscle in all these areas that it leaves out?[/quote]
FYI…you would sadly mistaken in talking down to me as if I was some newbie.[/quote]
Every post I’ve ever seen of yours has been ridiculously cocky. You are definitely winning the internet.
I think this argument all stems from a huge misunderstanding of both protocols. Mark Rippetoe is not anti isolation exercises, machine movements, or split routines. In fact, this is right out of his book “Those interested primarily in hypertrophy will use more isolation exercises at higher reps along with the basic strength based program.” PPFS2, Mark Rippetoe.
Starting Strength includes chin-ups, and pull-ups. Mark Rippetoe also mentions in his book that he doesn’t recommend direct arm work for rank novices because he knows they’ll do it anyway and that is fine. In fact, Mark Rippetoe suggests that after one builds a decent level of strength. Mid 2’s bench press, mid 3’s squat. mid 4’s deadlift that the trainee starts catering his lifting to the sport he or she wishes to participate in. Mark Rippetoes’ books all suggest standard bodybuilding splits with standard bodybuilding rep schemes and even machine (gasp) exercises for physique enhancing oriented trainees. The problem lies when a trainee takes either approach to an extreme level. There is no reason your 130 pound buddy who just started lifting needs to worry about dumbbell laterals when he cant perform basic functions of the human body correctly with a decent weight. Mark Rippetoe would not argue against bodybuilding methods for trainees with an intermediate strength level that are aspiring bodybuilders. He would argue that rank novices should not specify there training until they reach a decent amount of strength to start there individual endeavor whether this be bodybuilding oriented, olympic lifting oriented, etc. Hence, “starting strength.” I highly recommend any of his books.
[quote]Im_New_Feed_Me wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]mr popular wrote:
[quote]PlasmaShock wrote:
Well I’ve attatched an image that describes why arguing anymore will just be futile.
I’m beyond training starting strength. Not a zealot, but I very much dislike people shooting their mouths off about it when they do not know how the program works.
That’s all.[/quote]
It isn’t like it’s a complicated program. What exactly do you think I’m missing?[/quote]
Experience?[/quote]
You realize that Mr. Popular has likely performed every exercise prescribed in SS right (beside the clean most likely)? What’s so magical about SS’s arrangement that supposedly builds muscle in all these areas that it leaves out?[/quote]
FYI…you would sadly mistaken in talking down to me as if I was some newbie.[/quote]
Every post I’ve ever seen of yours has been ridiculously cocky. You are definitely winning the internet.[/quote]
I’m sorry you feel that way. . But since I don’t post much outside of the over 35 and every once in a great while in the powerlifting forum and even less in the beginners.I’m not sure what post you mean. As for me being cocky ,If you’ve read any of my post regarding my own lifts I will be the first one to run down my own lifts and bitch that they suck. So if you can find anywhere where I’m going around saying how great I am and how I’m all knowing I let me know.Nor do I run down others who post to try to make myself feel better about myself. Guess what? You wont…why? Because I don’t…And to be honest buddy I’m 39 years old and a father with a full time job and commitments. If you honestly think that 'winning the Internet" has any real meaning in my life then one of us has different ideas of whats important.
[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]mr popular wrote:
[quote]PlasmaShock wrote:
Well I’ve attatched an image that describes why arguing anymore will just be futile.
I’m beyond training starting strength. Not a zealot, but I very much dislike people shooting their mouths off about it when they do not know how the program works.
That’s all.[/quote]
It isn’t like it’s a complicated program. What exactly do you think I’m missing?[/quote]
Experience?[/quote]
You realize that Mr. Popular has likely performed every exercise prescribed in SS right (beside the clean most likely)? What’s so magical about SS’s arrangement that supposedly builds muscle in all these areas that it leaves out?[/quote]
FYI…you would sadly mistaken in talking down to me as if I was some newbie.[/quote]
If that’s what you got from what I said, then I’m sorry.[/quote]
No, dont say your sorry.I was in a pissy mood when I posted that.I tend to over react to things. So its me that owes you a apology.
[quote]eeu743 wrote:
[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:
[quote]eeu743 wrote:
Mr popular and I did legs today, and he squatted 315, below parallel, with a normal stance, not extremely wide. He then went up to 365, and went to at least parallel, if not below (I wasn’t watching his depth as closely on this one, because I was more focused on making sure he didn’t need help). Guarantee that by the end of the year, and probably by the end of June, he’ll be squatting at least 405, below parallel. Talk about uneducated.[/quote]
So what your saying is that ones training knowledge is based on ones strength level?
Which in turn validates ones opinion on a training topic. So going by that logic . If a person with bigger numbers was to enter this post wouldn’t there opinion carry more weight over the the less advanced lifter? Due to the fact that there larger numbers imply a higher knowledge base. That is what I get reading between the lines of your post.Am I wrong on that? I just want to make sure I’m not misunderstanding.[/quote]
Haha. To a degree, yes. I would trust his opinions, considering his accomplishments and the fact that I know he has spent a great deal of time reading and learning about all things bodybuilding, strength, and nutrition related, over the opinions of someone who has been training twice as long, without being much bigger or stronger, if at all. Is it really so foreign to think that being good at something might give your opinion on that subject a little more weight?
[/quote]
lol. I was just getting a feeling for your point a view. Thanks for taking time out and answering.
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
I think this argument all stems from a huge misunderstanding of both protocols. Mark Rippetoe is not anti isolation exercises, machine movements, or split routines. In fact, this is right out of his book “Those interested primarily in hypertrophy will use more isolation exercises at higher reps along with the basic strength based program.” PPFS2, Mark Rippetoe.
Starting Strength includes chin-ups, and pull-ups. Mark Rippetoe also mentions in his book that he doesn’t recommend direct arm work for rank novices because he knows they’ll do it anyway and that is fine. In fact, Mark Rippetoe suggests that after one builds a decent level of strength. Mid 2’s bench press, mid 3’s squat. mid 4’s deadlift that the trainee starts catering his lifting to the sport he or she wishes to participate in. Mark Rippetoes’ books all suggest standard bodybuilding splits with standard bodybuilding rep schemes and even machine (gasp) exercises for physique enhancing oriented trainees. The problem lies when a trainee takes either approach to an extreme level. There is no reason your 130 pound buddy who just started lifting needs to worry about dumbbell laterals when he cant perform basic functions of the human body correctly with a decent weight. Mark Rippetoe would not argue against bodybuilding methods for trainees with an intermediate strength level that are aspiring bodybuilders. He would argue that rank novices should not specify there training until they reach a decent amount of strength to start there individual endeavor whether this be bodybuilding oriented, olympic lifting oriented, etc. Hence, “starting strength.” I highly recommend any of his books. [/quote]
I would echo what Elite is saying here.
I have respect for Mark Rippetoe and happen to like and agree with 99% of what I’ve heard him say (and I have gone out of my way to find articles and interviews with him, and even plan to buy his books).
Although his peak powerlifts weren’t mind blowing or anything, he obviously reached an advanced level, and I’m happy to see that although he was never a bodybuilder, he doesn’t seem clueless about it.
What I DO have a problem with are the “fanboys”. The hoard of little faggots that all run around treating “starting strength” like a bible and judging absolutely everyone they see… and insisting that every beginner (regardless of their GOALS) must do Starting Strength or else they have squandered all of their potential.
Take-home point from this thread?
Powerlifting does not a bodybuilder make.
[quote]caveman101 wrote:
what was your original question again? lol[/quote]
Well, I was asking about wether or not SS made imbalances, then I was asking about a program I designed haha.