I wasn’t sure what category to put this question in so I hope it’s OK here?
I don’t train for aesthetics, but for function. To me that means I want a strong, balanced body that’s capable of doing a variety of extreme physical activities safely. I’m 51, but to be honest I’m not finding age to have much impact on training - other than I have a few muscle imbalances. I used to weight train, but nowadays I do bodyweight training (weighted where appropriate with weight vest or belt) with oly lifts/deadlifts/squats for lower body. Some running/hill sprints.
Mostly upper body training is pullups, rows, flags & dragon flags, dips and handstands using floor, rings, bars and poles (as in pole dancing pole - it’s awesome for strength training!). In the last couple of weeks I started trying to do handstand pushups and by third attempt I can get head down to floor - so 90 degrees at elbow. For 5 reps. I’m not super-light at 65kg.
Where am I getting the shoulder strength from? My shoulders look pretty big and well defined for a woman too. I’ve never worked my shoulders (intentionally).
Is what I’m doing enough or should I be doing some training with weights? Am I likely to be creating imbalances by training the big bodyweight movements only? To be honest I’m finding it hard to figure out what muscles are getting worked when training this way - shoulders are really baffling me!
I’m not working my chest at all simply because I feel my chest is a bit too overactive & tight at the moment and I have scapular winging when I do pushups, so trying to fix that first. But I plan to introduce pushups at some point. Although chest strength seems to be building too despite not doing anything much to work it???
It’s a bit of a vague question, but hopefully it’ll provoke some kind of response that’ll help me to improve my training. I guess mainly I’m trying to figure out if my training is leaving gaps that will leave me vulnerable to injury. I plan to work up to some pretty extreme bodyweight training and want a good foundation!
Hi! Just about anything you do in your description above works shoulers indirectly, some things are shoulderDOMINANT movements like the handstand pushups. It would be more strange if you didn’t get any strength in the shoulders from doing them. Dips work the chest HEAVILY. It seems you work both shoulders and chest directly.
I dont really understand how you can have a problem with doing pushups though if you can do dips (on rings/bars), flags, handstand pushups. Those movements are much harder and more advanced than regular pushups.
Shouldnt get much inbalances if you keep push/pull dominant excercises in a 1:1 ratio. Maybe try to figure out what excercises train what muscles… Good luck!
It’s not so much I can’t do pushups Grod - I used to do them a lot. But when I really started working hard on pullups and understanding how shoulders are supposed to move I realized my pushups, dips etc were done way too deep with my shoulders in anterior glide (see piccy attached of how I used to do them).
I’ve managed to fix that with dips by staying more upright, externally rotating shoulders a bit and putting the load on my back more. I can’t go so deep, but for now at least I think that’s better for me. Flags feel great because they work my shoulders in external rotation where they’re weaker. Handstand pushups are new to me, but they feel good - unlike overhead presses where I feel I move incorrectly.
But I cannot get my shoulders moving properly for pushups. I’ve tried everything. I’ve been thinking about it and I’m pretty sure I can do bench press safely because of the way you squeeze your shoulder blades so I’m going to give that a try. Which kind of answers my own question about combining weights and bw training.
Thanks for the info re muscle balance AND on where the shoulder strength came from!
@susani: Have you tried the Perfect Pushup Elite? It allows you to literally externally rotate your shoulders into the back of the socket (think- elbow pits forward, right thumb at 1 o’clock, left thumb at 11 o’clock). You can buy a power pushup, which has bands to apply to your pushup from 15lbs to 180lbs too if bodyweight training is your thing. If you just do regular pushups I find screwing my hands into the floor and tying to keep my elbow pits forward (or even armpits) works well. Big chest or chest up works well for some people too. Cues are funny sometimes. I hope that helps.
I hadn’t heard of the Perfect Pushup Elite, but I’ve looked it up and understand what it is. I’ve done pushups on gymnastic rings which let your joints move naturally but it didn’t help. I’ve also tried doing regular pushups screwing hands into floor etc as you suggest - no luck.
However, your post got me thinking and I realised I hadn’t actually tried both together - so rings that let my joints move freely along with the cues that you talk of. I’ve given it a go, and it’s very hard for me, but it feels very promising. It’s occurred to me that on the rings I was tending to internally rotate a bit as that lets you get the straps across forearms and biceps to help with stability. I think maybe I just need to externally rotate (which is a zillion times harder) and everything works as it should.
Time will tell, but thank you as you’ve given me something to work with and let me see a few other things I’m doing wrong with rings too (as in cheating ).
@susani: I’m glad I could help. The idea of externally rotating your shoulders and keeping them there is because they are a ball-and-socket joint there is space in the joint capsule that allows freedom of movement, and when you externally rotate your shoulders you take up that space so your humoral head isn’t going all over the socket, which can cause pain and injury. Break the bar and cues like that all have the same idea. It’s harder at first but you will work your muscles harder and get strong quick. I just said that because when I realized the why for myself, everything just clicked.
Not only does it not feel ‘wrong’, but it feels as if it’s doing me good. Really helping to sort out the imbalances and stabilize my shoulders.
It’s something about the combination of the external rotation cues and the instability of the rings. Can’t do it on the floor, can’t do it with angled out parallel bars. The instability somehow stops something from kicking in and taking over.
Thank you so much - you’ve got me pushuping again!!
You’re welcome…rings force you to stabilize more and keep your forearms vertical or else you will fall off of them. If you match your form and technique on the rings (vertical forearms, shoulders ER in the back of the socket, etc…) I think you’d be fine other places likes the floor or a bar too. Rings are an awesome bodyweight training tool though.
).