Back Pain-Need Advice

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

I just started doing CT’s Pendulum Bodybuilding last week, and while I’m enjoying the program, it seems to have brought up that I must have a weak lower back. Whenever I squat my lower back ends up in so much pain that I can’t do other exercises involving it.

For those unfamiliar with the program, day 1 week 1 involves a tempo contrast back squat, (4x8 at 604 tempo for 1/3/5/7 and 20X tempo for 2/4/6/8), followed by several exercises, and then 1x20 romanian deadlifts at the end of the workout. I couldn’t even lift the bar at the end my back was so bad. Today’s workout started with front squats, then romanian deadlifts, then leg press etc. The front squats (4x8 at 501 tempo)seemed to be fine, but when I finished the last set I realized my back was killing me and again I couldn’t do the deadlifts at all without a lot of pain.

I’ve never had this problem before but this is also the first time I’ve done a program like this with slow eccentric/tempo contrast work…so I was wondering if anyone had any advice? Perhaps I should do some back extensions on days I’m not doing squat/deadlift to try to help strengthen my back? I’d appreciate any help anyone can give me.

Oh and before this I did 2 cycles of ABBH with no problems, and prior to that I was on swolegenix to cut down after I’d put on too much fat following my hernia surgery.

2

hey man

check this article out:

Training for the Back at the elitefts site.

3

Ok this may not be directly related to your problem, but I have found that the way I sleep greatly impacts the way my back feels the next day or two. Specifically if I sleep on my stomach, I wake up with a sore and tight lower back. It is noticable throughout the day and interferes with any activities that I engage in be it lifting, golfing or anything else. I avoid sleeping on my stomach at all costs. When I sleep on my back it is much better but I still get a somewhat weak feeling when I am golfing or lifting. No real pain or tightness, just a little laziness from said lower back. It will often fatige faster than my other body parts and that just won’t cut it when you’re on your last set of squats or deads, or on the 17th hole one down in a big match.

So the secret I have found is to sleep in a fetal position on your side with a small pillow or some blankets stuffed between your knees. When I pull off a successful nights sleep without getting out of this position too much, my lower back feels like a million bucks. I have never had a fatigue problem or any tightness or pain since I began doing this. I can’t tell you why but the results are there. Try it out for a while and see if you notice any difference. It does take a little getting used to especially staying in that position all night long. I myself have always been a flopper, tossing around into different positions all night long. It has also enabled me to sleep more through the nights. All that tossing and turning tends to wake you up. Practicing staying in one position has been well worth it just for the quality sleep I have been getting.

Hope this helps some even if it’s not directly related to the lifting program you’re doing.

Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins

4

fjimmy - The elitefts article, is it titled Back and Ab training by Louie Simmons? Just want to make sure I have the right one.

vegita - I never thought about sleeping but now that you mention it, I haven’t slept well in close to 6 weeks due to being stuck on an old air mattress on the floor that tends to deflate during the night. I usually wake up with some minor back/neck pain b/c of it but it always goes away within an hour of waking up. I’ll continue to be in this situation for another 4 weeks until I move back into my apartment for school. This could certainly explain why I’ve had some trouble lately, besides the back pain, that I’ve never had before. Thanks for bringing this up.

Any further advice anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

5

I’ll second the importance of sleep position on back pain. And not just the back, sleep can effect make a difference all over.

But my personal experience is different. If I sleep on my side I usually feel like crap. Not my back, but my neck and shoulders get tight and twisted outta whack.

Sleeping on my back is better for me, but even that’s not perfect, I think it’s because my mattress is too soft. To feel best in the morning I need to sleep on my back but have something under my lumbar for support. I’ve used pillows and rolled-up T-shirts, but now I use an Isototic 4-position pillow. It’s memory-foam with a nice cylindrical shape that works perfect for me.

Point is, how you sleep can have a huge impact on how you feel when you’re awake… So do go out of your way to make sure you’re doing it right. It’s one of those things that a lot of people take for granted, or refuse to spend extra money or effort on out of stubborness, but you may find it’s the key to some weird problem that’s been nagging you.

Nick

6

Lack of muscle endurance in the core is a key factor in low back pain. See the following link for some exercises. I have not had any low back pain since using these exercises. The cat-camel is especially good for loosening up when your back is feeling stiff.

http://www.ahs.uwaterloo.ca/~mcgill/

fitnessleadersguide.pdf

7

you got it Bro

Louie has pretty much suffered enough for all of us.

I just had a post about reverse hypers on the ball if you are looking for a method on the cheap.

I would start including reverse hypers in your regimen asap

8

Thanks for the advice everyone, I’m going to start implementing this stuff immediately so I can hopefully resolve this issue.

9

Oh, something I thought I’d ad- when I was buying foam rollers to try the SMR article, I also picked up Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance by Stuart McGill. He’s supposed to be the world’s premier expert on the spine and he did an interview for T-Mag that was really intersting. He wasn’t totally knee-jerk anti-exercise and even said he admired Westside’s training methods, even though he thought some of their GM variations were a dangerous.

Anyway, I’ve only had a chance to flip through and browse a few sections but the book looks freakin’ awesome. It’s nice that he actually takes weight training, including powerlifting seriously. I don’t have any back problems per se, although I’ve tweaked mine a few times and had aches here and there. But I feel like it’s important to have books like that on the shelf so I can learn how to keep healthy as I keep lifting. It looks like it could make a good T-Jack item, althought it looks like there’s also a lot of data and back-geek stuff in there that would fly over most of our heads.

Nick

10

have you looked at Eric Cressey and Mike Robertson’s neanderthal no more series?? You might be able to pinpoint any postural anomolies from the 1st 3 articles to get an idea of exactly wot the problem might be. I know my lower back tends to hurt after squats/deads and i have a bit of an anterior pelvic tilt and extra curvature of the spine .

11

you may need to do some good mornings or some barbell hamstring work to get your lowerback some strength and used to increased tension.

12

Jason,

Check out Coach Staley's latest article on "Holding Your Breath" He has something that will aide to your lifting, I also added my 2cents to the article to increase back support and ab support.

Hope it helps!

Travis

13

Jason5,

I would recommend getting an evaluation by a qualified Orthopedist just to rule out any significant back problems.

They might simply recomend a few visits to a physical therapist who can at least perform a thorough evaluation and reveal any signifcant muscle imbalances. This might give you a little more insight into the cause of your back pain and help you develop a targetted plan of attack.

Stuart McGill’s “Low Back Disorders” is a great read and every gym goer should read it. I haven’t picked up his newest book but I plan on doing so soon.

As a matter of fact, Dr. McGill will be a guest on one of Charles Staley’s Coaching Calls in the near future so it might be worth taking a look at joining his group so that you can ask the good doctor some specific questions. I plan on doing so!

Best of luck with your back and let us know what you find.

14

Hello!

Pardon the hijack, but I also have been experiencing lower back pain, especially in the mornings and sometimes pretty bad. Been seeing a chiro now for three months or more and it just isn’t getting 100% better. I’ve been doing some of the back strengthening exercises such as the reverse hyper (no weight for now and no machine either, and therefore no stretch; just hanging backwards off of a regular hyper bench) and glute ham raises. I sleep on my back and just bought a $900 mattress that freakin BETTER be good. My question is, how long before I can expect some results from these exercises, and should they be done in conjunction with another major exercise like squats, or on a separate day? I miss my squats and deadlifts :frowning:

15

Just a few things to add about sleeping and exercising the back. I’ve pretty much gone through all of McGill’s performance books and there’s a few things that were really interesting.

One is that bed rest tends to cause back aches… so if you tend to hurt in the morning, it’s because lying in bed is indeed hard on the back. This helps explain why sleeping with something under my lumbar is so much more comfortable for me.

With regards to training the back, he’s found that absolute strength doesn’t necessarily help back pain, and the notion of strengthening the back is often misguided. Apparently endurance in the spine’s stabilizers is more important than strength. He puts the emphasis on proper technique and proper motor patterns. A lot of the work he does with his patients has less to do with strengthening excercises and more to do with teaching people how to lift and move in ways that spare the back from stress, and also teaching people to improve their sense of body position and awareness so they keep their spine in a safe position no matter what they’re doing.

He challenges the idea that streching the back or otherwise working to improve back flexibility for it’s own sake is good. Basically his opinion is that the spine should never be worked through it’s full range of motion under load. Learning to keep the neutral posture is the key, and flexibility training for it’s own sake may hurt some people.

Don’t flex the back or do any back stretches or exercises first thing in the morning. The disks absorb water overnight so when you wake up the spine is at its most unstable. He advises against flexing the spine for about an hour after you get up. DO NOT DO BACK STRETCHES OR EXERCISES IN THE MORNING!!! Especially situps!

One thing that I found very refreshing is that he was not at all down on lifting. He has great respect for the Soviet athletic programs and even mentioned some of Westside’s techniques and had EMG data comparing their squat technique to a normal squat! And yes the Westside guys get a lot more out of their glutes! He also considers the overhead squat to be an excellent exercise! He didn’t have any particular problems with weightlifting or powerlifting, his concern being that many people lack the technique and flexibilty to lift safely. Bottom line- as long as you lift properly and keep your back neutral you should be fine. This is especially refreshing compared to the Matt Fuhrey BS that is occasionally discussed around here- consult the experts and Matt sounds like a stupid ass…

One of the overriding themes of the book is that you should avoid flexing the spine as much as possible. Twisting doesn’t help either. Keep the spine neutral, braced and locked to the rib-cage under all circumstances.

Strengthen and learn to use the glutes. Apparently most North Americans don’t and it can be a problem for our backs. But again, proper activation is more important than strength.

Eliminate activities that cause back pain and NEVER do anything that causes pain. In the case of the back it is virtually never appropriate to work through pain. And it’s important to really think about what you do throughout the day that may be aggravating the back.

Anyway, I would highly recommend this book, and will probably pick up his other book on back disorders, just to further fortify myself.

Nick