Hi Dr. Darden,
I was interested in your thoughts on the utility of a 45 degree back extension or reverse hyper in the Extreme HIT 30-10-30 write up, possibly in place of leg curls. Since they aren’t nearly the same I could see how it may interfere with other aspects of the programming. Neither seated or lying leg curls feel that great to me. I currently do back extensions in the following fashion: 4 second hold at the top, 4 second negative, up and repeat for 8-15 reps. I use an EZ bar for loading.
I’m resolved to perform Extreme HIT without making any changes to your original write up, as I have access to every exercise that you suggest, so I may just pick one of the leg curls and do them hard anyways.
I enjoy those 2 moves you’re doing and especially like Stiff-Leg Deadlifts. The problem for the hams, is that you are only stretching and unstretching them a little from the action at the hip pivot point. With LCs, the knees go through 90-deg+ of bending and unbending, which plays in to the blood gorge intent of the “10” portion of the protocol.
The latter half of your last sentence put it into perspective for me. Reflecting on todays session of testing a few exercises I haven’t done in a while in preparation for starting Extreme HIT soon, I noticed that lying leg curls gave me a much better peak contraction than seated. Something about the seat itself on seated ham curls that takes the feeling out of the hams and glutes.
Good! Lying LCs have the hip joint in a neutral position, which allows for a better hammy contraction and some glute work, if you do it right. With Seated LCs, the hip joint is stretched, which inihibits full hammy contraction and eliminates the glutes entirely.
Simon, I really appreciate your insights!
Have you run Extreme HIT?
@Ellington_Darden
I was also curious if you have had any experience testing longer rest times between sessions with this program? Say training twice a week versus the three times prescribed? I know you are advocating not to failure with this protocol. I’ve been training HIT for about 6 years now (although not exclusively) and the thought of full body thrice a week is concerning!
For what it’s worth, I’m 34, been training with weights since 12. I’m no advanced trainee but have trained very consistently all these years. I’ve noticed best results training very infrequently, but hard, body parts once every 5-7 these days. 177 pounds at 5’9”.
I’ll be using Surge, creatine and a whey isolate for insurance, as well as consuming far more carbs than what I typically do.
Why don’t you try twice-a-week training? It may be the best approach for you.
I tried it with some exercises, but not the full program. At the time it came out, I was dealing with a torn RC muscle from a poor decision in the gym. Re-hab was quite some time on that issue. I’m in the middle of another program right now, but perhaps afterwards I could give 30-10-30 a better go.
Until recently, I too trained twice a week. With a bit more volume/workout than is in the program. As an HITer, the hardest part wil lbe dialing in your weight. With experience in slow negatives the Beginning and Ending negatives were the easy part for me. Leaving enough juice to do 10 Rhytmic reps between was the surprisingly hard part.
I’d first dial-in the 30-10-30 protocol with 7-8 exercises, twice/week for a month or two. Rest between sets as you usually do, but try to gradually shorten them. Get your creatine use going, but save the Surge and carbs. After this period, give the Full Program a go, adding the Surge and extra carbs. Key to the success is you are not going to Failure, or you’ll be wiped-out. If 3/wk proves too taxing, then by all means go back to 2/wk, but continuing the program progression.
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I didn’t see standing leg curl mentioned. I don’t see them as better or worse; they’re just another option. I used to like the standing leg curl machine when I went to a commercial gym. I suppose I could use old fashioned iron boots or rig something else up now that I train at home.
Simon, thank you again for your perspective. I truly appreciate the notion of taking the time to get into this properly, something I was missing.
I’ll spend the first week getting 10RM on most exercises (as Darden recommends using 80% of that), starting with 5-6 exercises and adding 1 a week or so as I practice 30-10-30 as well as gather more 10RM’s; also spending this time taking rest as needed, but tracking rest times and seeking to reduce. I’ll also save the Surge for the actual challenges.
My thoughts on this for the first month:
WORKOUT A
Week 1:
- Lying ham curl 10RM
- Leg press 10RM
- Barbell bench press 10RM
- Barbell row 10RM
*rest as necessary
Week 2:
*30-10-30 @ 80% or maybe even 70%
*test 10RM on overhead DB tricep ext
*track rest times
Week 3:
*30-10-30 @ 80%
*shorten rest times
*test 10RM on lateral DB fly
Week 4:
*10-30 @ 80%
*reduced stress week
WORKOUT B
Week 1:
- DB squats, going to test w/ 20’s, and try to use 25’s during the challenge (the challenge suggests not going above 25)
- Calf press 10RM
- Underhand pulldown 10RM
- Barbell overhead press 10RM
- Back ext 45 deg 1x8-15 to failure, 4s peak, 4s -, up and repeat
*rest as needed
Week 2:
*30-10-30 @ 80%
*track rest times
*test barbell curl 10RM
Week 3:
*30-10-30 @ 80%
*shorten rest times
*test leg ext 10RM
Week 4:
*10-30 @ 80%
*reduced stress week
Going to continue swimming once a week or so.
Also, it may be fun for me to run a log on the forums here. I’ll be starting this July 1.
I like it! Just understand that that 10RM you use on Week 1 will NOT be the weight you use for the 30-10-30! You probably need to drop it 15% until you know better!!
I prefer TX with an EZ Curl bar. And whether DB or EZ, try it on about a 50-degree incline, with your upper arms about 15deg from vertical. You wind-up with more meaningful reistance in the top position!
Oh ya, I’ll probably run about 70-75% of 10RM for this block of training, and 80% for the challenge.
I’ll give those incline extensions a shot. Been bias to pullover/PJR style since about 2008. Never thought of trying them at an incline.
It’s the best of both worlds between Seated and Lying TX. You the long head stretch AND the short head contraction, if you work it right. Plus, you’ll be using 15% more weight than straight overhead TX…