Great article on Jeremy. It could even be used in the reference to what this thread talks about.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
belligerent wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Dude you need to go read a book.
Dude you need to quit fancying yourself as an expert and pretending to have the all-elusive magical “correct” perspective on such a complicated and controversial issue. You think you know what you’re talking about because you read some fucking book? Anyone who claims to have a definitive, authoritative answer to the question of the nature of “race” either way is a world-class phony.
And FYI, I do not live in a cave. I am, in fact, a fairly astute observer of the athletics world. What’s laughable is that you try to justify your perspective by claiming that you yourself are are white guy who is built “black”. Funny how specimens like you always exist on a message board but are nowhere to be found in the realm of world-class athletes.
Well, I may not be a “world class athlete” but I did play professional basketball overseas and had an NBA tryout.
Anyway, to say someone is “built black” is just plain stupid - and really, it has nothing to do with my reading a book, or any book, the issue is (just to clarify for you) (1) muscle attachments, limb length, etc.; and, (2) yes, you are a dumbass.
I’ve never felt the need to do this before - here, or on the internet in general, but I read in another thread how you’d like to whip on someone here (toughest T-man thread), etc. etc. I’d like to volunteer for that task because (1) I’d like to show you I exist off the internet; and (2) I’d like to give you a nice healthy outlet for your aggression…Mr. “Belligerent”.
I’m in NJ (philly area) - I hope and pray you’re local. Look up the Brooks Kubic thread - I posted my real name and location there.
But we digress - now back to the point - in your world, outside your cave, observing “thousands of athletes”…no white guys have the same attachment points, etc of a black guy… LOL. just plain dumb.
[/quote]
Brilliant. Soliciting a fight over the internet that you know will never take place with an anonymous message board user whom you know only as a moniker. Clearly you’re EXTREMELY tough (and smart). I really mean that.
Back to your “point” - I never said that no white guys have the same attachment points, etc. of a black guy. I can’t observe muscle attachment points, and neither can you. But there is more to stature than muscle attachment points. I stand by my claim that I have never seen a white athlete with certain features that I associate exclusively with elite black athletes. These are difficult to define, since most features exist on some kind of continuum (i.e., short to long), but I will say that in those cases I observe certain extremes only among blacks.
I offer you the opportunity to prove me wrong - post up a picture of a white man - any white man, who possesses features that you believe others like myself erroneously associate only with black men. Show me the white guy who is built like Michael Jordan or Carl Lewis.
Wariner is a brilliant quartermiler, but IMO he doesn’t really undermine the sterotype because he is not a true sprinter and is still not nearly fast enough to compete in the shorter sprints, which are the true measure of speed. He is fast, but not that fast.
[quote]belligerent wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
belligerent wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Dude you need to go read a book.
Dude you need to quit fancying yourself as an expert and pretending to have the all-elusive magical “correct” perspective on such a complicated and controversial issue. You think you know what you’re talking about because you read some fucking book? Anyone who claims to have a definitive, authoritative answer to the question of the nature of “race” either way is a world-class phony.
And FYI, I do not live in a cave. I am, in fact, a fairly astute observer of the athletics world. What’s laughable is that you try to justify your perspective by claiming that you yourself are are white guy who is built “black”. Funny how specimens like you always exist on a message board but are nowhere to be found in the realm of world-class athletes.
Well, I may not be a “world class athlete” but I did play professional basketball overseas and had an NBA tryout.
Anyway, to say someone is “built black” is just plain stupid - and really, it has nothing to do with my reading a book, or any book, the issue is (just to clarify for you) (1) muscle attachments, limb length, etc.; and, (2) yes, you are a dumbass.
I’ve never felt the need to do this before - here, or on the internet in general, but I read in another thread how you’d like to whip on someone here (toughest T-man thread), etc. etc. I’d like to volunteer for that task because (1) I’d like to show you I exist off the internet; and (2) I’d like to give you a nice healthy outlet for your aggression…Mr. “Belligerent”.
I’m in NJ (philly area) - I hope and pray you’re local. Look up the Brooks Kubic thread - I posted my real name and location there.
But we digress - now back to the point - in your world, outside your cave, observing “thousands of athletes”…no white guys have the same attachment points, etc of a black guy… LOL. just plain dumb.
Brilliant. Soliciting a fight over the internet that you know will never take place with an anonymous message board user whom you know only as a moniker. Clearly you’re EXTREMELY tough (and smart). I really mean that.
Back to your “point” - I never said that no white guys have the same attachment points, etc. of a black guy. I can’t observe muscle attachment points, and neither can you. But there is more to stature than muscle attachment points. I stand by my claim that I have never seen a white athlete with certain features that I associate exclusively with elite black athletes. These are difficult to define, since most features exist on some kind of continuum (i.e., short to long), but I will say that in those cases I observe certain extremes only among blacks.
I offer you the opportunity to prove me wrong - post up a picture of a white man - any white man, who possesses features that you believe others like myself erroneously associate only with black men. Show me the white guy who is built like Michael Jordan or Carl Lewis. [/quote]
You’re a funny dude for sure; I’ve met many people I “met” over the internet - after basketball, I got into powerlifting…I’ve met many powerlifting friends at meets. So again, if we’re local, and you’re feeling so froggy…you know the rest.
But back to your point (and I promise to stay there if you will); YOU were the one that laid down the gauntlet on these so called black attributes - but now YOU can’t exactly define or describe them. Well, from where I sit, these indescribable physical qualities you attribute to the so called black race are a figment of your imagination - unless of course you can describe them.
Please describe them - and then we’ll discuss them. And be careful with the Carl Lewis stuff - I grew up in a neighboring town of Carl’s - seen him plenty of times, my best friend went to high school and knew him well, and my other best friend (the world class high jumper) knew him well. Other than his long legs and some other things that only I and certain other people know - I wonder what the heck it is you think you see that doesn’t exist outside his so called race.
Please describe it - describe it or please step down because this last thread is just silly (uh, the two are different but I can’t describe it).
And one other thing Mr. Belligerent: I notice you say you’re an “observer” of the athletic world - and perhaps therein lies your problem - you sit on the couch and watch - I competed with the best. And I can’t help but to catch that “pasty white man” quip of yours…if you’re white - are you a self-hating white man? if you’re black - well I guess your quip speaks for itself.
Anyway, I laugh everytime I read some “white men can’t jump or run thread”. I played b-ball at the highest levels and more playgrounds than I can remember. And I can remember plenty of black guys that couldn’t jump all that high or run that fast. And I distinctly remembere the year I played in the LA summer pro league and they measured verticals in the free agent camp - and I distinctly remember the middle of the bell curve falling right around 30" - guys that were 6’6" that you were just sure could fly, jumping a measley (relatively) 30" - white AND black.
So, as a former athlete (and yes, I consider myself formerly elite - I had a 38" vertical and ran a 4.4 40; I had a 27" vertical as a 6th grader) and someone who has seen many athletes in basketball, had some elite track athlete friends (I’m no stranger to track - my best friend’s son is one of the best 200m kids in the state of NJ and just placed in the Eastern States - and he is of MIXED lineage), have some former pro football player friends - in sum, I’ve personall known, worked out, or competed against some of your so called “elite” athletes and I have a very different perspect than you.
Although I cannot deny that a certain so called race tends to aggregate toward and succeed at a more consistent rate than others at certain endeavors - that mere observation is hardly scientific.
I would sincerely like for you to attempt to describe these physical attributes to which you elude.
And one final correction for you; you CAN observe, generally, muscle attachment points - you are wholly incorrect. Would you like to start with a lesson on muscle attachment point of the calve muscle? How about the biceps? Not that muscle attachments points would be conclusive to this argument - but I think its a part of the equation - I merely correct your error.
.
Olympic weightlifters-almost none of whom are black-have greater verticals than olympic high and long jumpers and better 20 yard dash/burst times than olympic 100 meter sprinters-although they would all be in roughly the same league here.
Blacks make up less than 20% of the US population but about 50% of American athletes at the highest level are black-and its not about poverty-most black athletes did not come from impoverished lives and there are more 2x more whites than blacks below the poverty line.
[quote]thegreenzuchinni wrote:
one of my high school physical education teachers had a theory that black people were physically superior in America because most were descendents of the slaves that came over to America on slave ships. naturally, on the strongest and most physically fit would survive, and thus be able to pass on their genes. just a thought.[/quote]
slave owners also would breed slaves like animals
I wonder I wonder I wonder… why do people even care about this subject?
True, however most slaves brought to america were individuals whe were caught by members of other tribes, or arab slave traders, or lost in battle to them. Almost every black slave brought to America was originally enslaved by another black person, and came from a tribal culture where slavery was excepted.
it says in that g flux article that this guy could run the 30 meters in 3.54 seconds. hes white and 220lbs
were as ben johnson took 3.80 seconds to do the first 30 meters in seoul and carl lewis took 3.90 seconds.
[quote]thegreenzuchinni wrote:
one of my high school physical education teachers had a theory that black people were physically superior in America because most were descendents of the slaves that came over to America on slave ships. naturally, on the strongest and most physically fit would survive, and thus be able to pass on their genes. just a thought.[/quote]
Your high school PE teacher has probably never been to the west coast of Africa, I have.
On a deployment with my team in the Army, our job was to train some African “SF” soldiers.
When we arrived, we were introduced to the local African “SF” general, and a black guy on my team couldn?t wait to introduce himself. I couldn?t blame him, I would have been excited if we would have gone to Norway.
When introduced my teammate shook the general’s hand and told him how happy he was to come back to his homeland.
Well, the general replied by telling my friend that African Americans were the weak, slow tribes that his people had captured and sold to the white man who came on ships… and that all black Americans are inferior. That?s what they teach in West African history.
My teammate got no respect his entire trip there from the Africans and definitely left with a different perspective.
On the black/white quarterback issue. The color that matters in the NFL is green.
[quote]superscience wrote:
it says in that g flux article that this guy could run the 30 meters in 3.54 seconds. hes white and 220lbs
were as ben johnson took 3.80 seconds to do the first 30 meters in seoul and carl lewis took 3.90 seconds.
[/quote]
That’s incorrect. It took Ben Johnson 3.8 seconds to run the first FORTY meters.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
superscience wrote:
it says in that g flux article that this guy could run the 30 meters in 3.54 seconds. hes white and 220lbs
were as ben johnson took 3.80 seconds to do the first 30 meters in seoul and carl lewis took 3.90 seconds.
That’s incorrect. It took Ben Johnson 3.8 seconds to run the first FORTY meters.[/quote]
haha if he done that he wuda run the 100 in 8 seconds.
he took 4.66 seconds to run the 40 meteres
lewis took 3.90 to run the first 30
and linford christie took 3.92 to run the first 30.
for you who dont believe go look for your self.
Yes, but Pavle’s time is not only most likely a lie, but bodsledders times are tested with a 1m fly, which does not sound like much, but is significant when you eliminate the slowest 1m of the race and also eliminate the reaction time. If he really could run that fast, there is no reason why he could not be a world close 60m runner without even practicing it (even if he began slowing down he would be one of the best in the world).
To the guy who said olympic weightlifters have higher verticals than field athletes and faster sprint times than sprinters over short distances, keep dreaming. While the SLJ WR is held by a shotputter, the vertical jump is a lot more weight dependent and unlikely that many oly lifters would be competitive with elite long jumpers.
About being faster than elite sprinters to any distance, all I can do is laugh. Maybe the subelite guys who start poorly, but nobody who is making the olympic A standard.
This whole idea is rediculous. Human beings just haven’t been around long enough to have huge steps in evolution to be made and separate races. The differences between race are only surface deep. If a black person can run fast, it is because that person can run fast. Racial domination in sports is probably more related to social pressures that are different in the cultures.
Any tests that say a certain race can turn over oxygen quicker or any other benificial athletic quality are not done on a big enough scale to be conclusive. We all know that their are athletically gifted people in every race and those with poor athletic ability. Saying someone is good at playing sports because of their race takes away from that persons abilities they worked hard to build, and saying you cant be good because of your race is a copout.
[quote]magblue wrote:
This whole idea is rediculous. Human beings just haven’t been around long enough to have huge steps in evolution to be made and separate races. The differences between race are only surface deep. If a black person can run fast, it is because that person can run fast. Racial domination in sports is probably more related to social pressures that are different in the cultures.
Any tests that say a certain race can turn over oxygen quicker or any other benificial athletic quality are not done on a big enough scale to be conclusive. We all know that their are athletically gifted people in every race and those with poor athletic ability. Saying someone is good at playing sports because of their race takes away from that persons abilities they worked hard to build, and saying you cant be good because of your race is a copout.[/quote]
I can agree with this to an extent, but how does this explain, for example, the pygmys (forgive the spelling)? There are genetic differences in race, just not as significant as some people describe. The US highschool 60m record IS held by a skinny white boy–sadly he was probably more ghetto than most of the black guys (if you want to be stereotypical–like this entire thread) and got deeply involved in drugs/gangs/etc.
Anyone who said Jeremy Wariner is not good in the short sprints is a total fool–kid went 20.4e in the 200m in HIGH SCHOOL in his second year of ever even running track.
Food for thought–there is a study going on right now trying to find the specific tribe in Africa where most of the fastest men in the world come from. The idea comes about because MOST of the fastest people of all-time come from some sort of Jamaican descent and, most likely, their lineage comes from the same African tribe. Ben Johnson, Asafa Powell, Donovan Bailey, Linford Christie, and many others all were originally from Jamaica.
I think it’s more interesting to look into this specifically, rather than just black/white. Look at Maurice Greene–the guy is very light skinned. Carl Lewis, as another example, has a much different looking body type than most of them (extremely low calves proportionally), but was still successful.
There’s no doubt in my mind that the African decendants who live in the Americas have an athletic advantage over other all other races in the world!
I’m not racist. I have friends and cousins who are black/part black. My stepdaughter is black.
There’s no arguing that the slave trade was inadvertantly a human breeding program. Only the biggest and strongest Africans came here as slaves. Once they were here, they were bred for their physical prowess for over more than 200 years. If that doesn’t produce athletically gifted genes, then I don’t know what would.
I’ve seen black guys who never work out, eat crappy food all day long, and have ripped abs and striated delts.
[quote]pookie wrote:
If you look at the Olympic 100-meter dash record holders, the last white guy to have it was Alan Wells of Britain in 1980.
All subsequent record holders Carl Lewis, Linford Christie, Donovan Bailey, Maurice Green and current Olympic record holder Justin Gatlin have been black.
If it’s a myth, it’s a myth that walks the walk (runs the run?) and brings home the medals.[/quote]
Not to forget Asafa Powell. The current world record holder, also black.