[quote]
Sometimes I wonder if rasicm will ever go away. [/quote]
Not as long as Jesse Jackson and other racists of both colors are alive.
Something I wanted to discuss and I will post references as soon as I find it in my attic full of old college homework and papers. I did a paper in college about racial stereotypes and validating some of these stereotypes scientifically.
My first “myth” was that of race and penis size. Post mortem autopsies performed and documented over 30 years found that brain mass followed a surprisingly substantial trend according to race. Asian males and females led the study with an average brainmass of about 1300cc with caucasians being in close second with an average of about 1250cc.
When african americans were analyzed they had a difference of 250cc and had an average brain mass of about 1000cc. My paper discussed the correlation between brain mass and penis size due to the fact that along our evolution penis size became less of a factor because human beings became more civilized and monogamy became more of a norm.
The whole physiological basis of the head of the penis and the groove that distinguishes it is to draw out the semen of the male who deposited before you to better your chances of depositing your own semen. So as we became smarter, the need for a physiologically larger penis to “force” it’s way into a female as far as it would go to better his chances of passing on his genes became less important.
Survival of the fittest meant increasing the grey matter and decreasing the need for a large penis. Is this always the case–NO. I make generalizations and there are always exceptions to the norm. I personally know of many female friends who had boyfriends that were asian with “large” penises and white males as well.
So what does this say about race and athletic performance? There are differences in races and there always will be. Is that a bad thing? NO. Each race has evolved according to their environment but as globalization and intercontinental travel becomes more and more common we are all starting to intermingle and perhaps in the future , differences in race won’t be so significant because we will have mixed so much.
A good example of this is here in Hawaii. Hawaii is such a melting pot that it isn’t uncommon to hear of someone being hawaiian, korean, irish, black. And the people here for the most part are beautiful AND athletic. I’m all for intermingling of races and I believe more good than bad can come out of it.
Examples, Hines Ward, Tiger Woods, Duane Johnson (aka The Rock). Another case by example cystic fibrosis and sickle cell anemia. Both of which are almost exclusive to caucasians and blacks (respectively). However, the chances of passing down the genes for these two diseases are almost eliminated if you marry outside of your race.
Any one care to comment please feel free to. And as for the references–I’m working on it.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if rasicm will ever go away.
Not as long as Jesse Jackson and other racists of both colors are alive.
[/quote]
Nature will find a way.
As bad as this sounds. The reason alot of whites play hockey and hardly any blacks, is more to do with politics, social status and income.
Hockey is probably THE most expensive sport a child can play, generally due to humanities stupid ways, alot of black people don’t get equal job opportunity, or generally make as much money as whites (in Canada, specifically, don’t know about the states). Blacks can’t afford hockey as much as whites can.
Basketball makes sense, so does foot ball all you need is a ball. I know for myself being an immigrant (which alot of blacks are in canada) I could’nt afford hockey, I played basketball, rugby, and soccer…could’nt afford the shit. Secondly Not alot of black kids get equal opportunity on ice.
The real idiocy here is that inquiry into the matter of racial differences is, in some people’s minds, actually equivalent to racism.
I also believe that the AAA’s position on this issue is derived almost purely from a desire to combat racism. The bias is more than evident in the zeal with which anthro’s are now pushing this idea that “race” doesn’t exist.
[quote]belligerent wrote:
The real idiocy here is that inquiry into the matter of racial differences is, in some people’s minds, actually equivalent to racism.
I also believe that the AAA’s position on this issue is derived almost purely from a desire to combat racism. The bias is more than evident in the zeal with which anthro’s are now pushing this idea that “race” doesn’t exist.
[/quote]
Well, I’d have to say that I agree, in part, that there is too much of an effort to be “politically correct” and otherwise sensitive. Obviously, there are differences but I understand completely that from an anthropological standpoint and from a pragmatic view, there really is no “race” inasmuch as all the so-called “races” are of mixed lineage. If we didn’t evolve from a single continent as we had (Africa) and cultures or “races” stayed homogenous, then comparisons would be valid - but that isn’t the case.
But getting back somewhat to the topc - think about it - what exactly is, for example, an “african american” in this age? I’ll tell you - he is not much more “african” than I am - genetically speaking. And if you knew anything about the genetic basis for skin color - which is mostly what we use to “identify” a so called “race”, you’d realize that you are on weak ground as skin color is largely a meaningless way (genetically speaking) to identify a so called “race”.
Do yourself a favor, read “7 Daughters of Eve”; it doesn’t exactly answer the questions we pose herein, but it is an interesting and eye opening read, its a quick read and for a subject as complex as genetics can be, its a relative “easy” read - you can knock it out in a day or two.
The problem with these comparisons, historically, is that they were used by white scientists to justify the superiority of the white “race” - e.g., Anthropometry. The logic would go something like this - an ape’s forearm measurement is x and a black man’s is y and a white man’s is z. Since the black man’s measurement is more closely to that of the ape, and the white man’s less closely related, then the white man must be more civilized and hence more developed.
And I’m not making this up - this is how it was used and this is why I can understand that most scientists will attempt to stay away from any means to measure or quantify “difference”. Someone posted something about brain size - and this is yet another example of that faulty logic.
If you wanted to make a scientific analysis of athletic performance - you would completely ignore skin color or what you erroneously refer to has “race” (yes, it is an error). You would then measure muscle fiber type, muscle attachment points, limb length, etc. and build a statistical model compared to relative performance in different sporting endeavors. At although at the end of the day, you may find that a so called “race” may be more represented in one area over another - I’d be willing to bet you could find like-traits among the “white” and “black” so called “races”.
I don’t want to beat this to death but I’ll use a personal analogy; I’m built like what you’d figure a black guy is built - prominent buttocks, etc., and yes I can run fast and jump high (in my prime) and yes, I’m white. The “I’m built like a black guy” analogy however, is absolutely faulty and scientifically incorrect. For one, I’d bet that you could prove that certain attachment points, muscle development and limb length contribute to speed and jumping, generally speaking.
But I can look around and find plenty of “whites” built like that. I can also look around and find plenty of “blacks” NOT built like that. I hope I’m making a valid illustration here that can be understood - the answer lies in the “measurement” of the human body - not the comparison of something as meaningless and scientifcally/genetically invalid as “skin color” or “race”.
The fact that it may be difficult or impossible to group people into clearly defined “races” does not preclude the possibility that what we percieve as “race” does have some genetic basis. If it didn’t, it wouldn’t be possible to easily intuit what continents peoples’ ancestors came from simply by looking at them. Clearly there is something going on.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
But I can look around and find plenty of “whites” built like that. I can also look around and find plenty of “blacks” NOT built like that.
[/quote]
I disagree. In ten years of being obsessed with track and field and observing thousands of athletes of all races, I can say confidently that I’ve never seen a white man built like Donovan Bailey or Carl Lewis. Yes, I’ve seen plently of black men who are built more like your average pasty white boy, but never seen a white man with that those truly athletic features that we associate with black men. Never.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if rasicm will ever go away.
Not as long as Jesse Jackson and other racists of both colors are alive.
[/quote]
Amen!Racism is A two way street.
[quote]belligerent wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
But I can look around and find plenty of “whites” built like that. I can also look around and find plenty of “blacks” NOT built like that.
I disagree. In ten years of being obsessed with track and field and observing thousands of athletes of all races, I can say confidently that I’ve never seen a white man built like Donovan Bailey or Carl Lewis. Yes, I’ve seen plently of black men who are built more like your average pasty white boy, but never seen a white man with that those truly athletic features that we associate with black men. Never.
[/quote]
Well then, you live in a cave and no further discussion is really necessary - yours is truly an erroneous statement.
[quote]belligerent wrote:
The fact that it may be difficult or impossible to group people into clearly defined “races” does not preclude the possibility that what we percieve as “race” does have some genetic basis. If it didn’t, it wouldn’t be possible to easily intuit what continents peoples’ ancestors came from simply by looking at them. Clearly there is something going on. [/quote]
Dude you need to go read a book.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Dude you need to go read a book.
[/quote]
Dude you need to quit fancying yourself as an expert and pretending to have the all-elusive magical “correct” perspective on such a complicated and controversial issue. You think you know what you’re talking about because you read some fucking book? Anyone who claims to have a definitive, authoritative answer to the question of the nature of “race” either way is a world-class phony.
And FYI, I do not live in a cave. I am, in fact, a fairly astute observer of the athletics world. What’s laughable is that you try to justify your perspective by claiming that you yourself are are white guy who is built “black”. Funny how specimens like you always exist on a message board but are nowhere to be found in the realm of world-class athletes.
[quote]belligerent wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Dude you need to go read a book.
Dude you need to quit fancying yourself as an expert and pretending to have the all-elusive magical “correct” perspective on such a complicated and controversial issue. You think you know what you’re talking about because you read some fucking book? Anyone who claims to have a definitive, authoritative answer to the question of the nature of “race” either way is a world-class phony.
And FYI, I do not live in a cave. I am, in fact, a fairly astute observer of the athletics world. What’s laughable is that you try to justify your perspective by claiming that you yourself are are white guy who is built “black”. Funny how specimens like you always exist on a message board but are nowhere to be found in the realm of world-class athletes.
[/quote]
Well, I may not be a “world class athlete” but I did play professional basketball overseas and had an NBA tryout.
Anyway, to say someone is “built black” is just plain stupid - and really, it has nothing to do with my reading a book, or any book, the issue is (just to clarify for you) (1) muscle attachments, limb length, etc.; and, (2) yes, you are a dumbass.
I’ve never felt the need to do this before - here, or on the internet in general, but I read in another thread how you’d like to whip on someone here (toughest T-man thread), etc. etc. I’d like to volunteer for that task because (1) I’d like to show you I exist off the internet; and (2) I’d like to give you a nice healthy outlet for your aggression…Mr. “Belligerent”.
I’m in NJ (philly area) - I hope and pray you’re local. Look up the Brooks Kubic thread - I posted my real name and location there.
But we digress - now back to the point - in your world, outside your cave, observing “thousands of athletes”…no white guys have the same attachment points, etc of a black guy… LOL. just plain dumb.
[quote]BIGERIC wrote:
I disagree. There are wayyy more white kids playing basketball at the 7th or 8th grade level than black kids. Even most of the college teams are pretty equal. It’s not until you get to the highest levels (top-level d1 or pros) that it becomes mostly black. Hockey is not really a good comparison because there are almost no black guys playing hockey at any level. In any case, as I said before, I don’t really care- it really doesn’t make that big of a difference (if it truly does make a difference).
You are right there is no comparison to hockey because hockey is a rich mans sport and there are basketball courts in every nieghborhood.
Nobody has mentioned power lifting. Which race dominates that.[/quote]
The fat race?
Well, personally I do think genetics can play a role in someone’s athleticism but not as much as their drive, their love, and their passion for it. Also mentality
Let’s use me for an example. I was a world class sprinter in the making high school. I was in training for the trials for Barcelona. Didn’t make it due to some very poor choices. I ran a 24 sec. 200 meters not even being pushed to my fullest. I ran a 4:34 mile not my thing but I thats what I did. My event was the 200 m.
There was not a girl or boy. Black or white that could be me in my district at that one event. And NO I am not Bullshitting or making any of this up! Actually my 200m now is pretty much almost the same times as it was when I was younger. God I can’t wait to start sprint training in a few weeks. 
Hauling ass is my true passion. And I still love to do it.
Now with all of that being said I was a 5’4 1/2Czech/ 1/4Native American/ 1/4 German female. Which I consider white girl LOL. My stride was longer than the taller girls. Try scientifically explaining that one. Not to mention it was uneven. 5ft by 8ft. I was never beaten in any of my races. Tested a few times but never beaten. Actually the one female who really tested me was another white girl believe it or not. I don’t think race has anything to do with it though. I think in the end when your out there not only does it come down to training but when it is all on the line you have to go mentally where you have never gone before and really put your heart into it. And dig deeper than you have ever gone. At that moment the color of your skin really does not matter. I used to get teased as the only white girl and not to mention being short. Oh the intimidation factor would just fuel my fire. I was very competitive. I could really go into it all but I won’t. This is long enough. LOL.
Someone before posted something about money being a factor. Funny, cause I kinda agree there. I grew up poor. The only thing I had was my running. I loved ballet & ice skating but we could not afford that. I could just go to the local track and run and train myself until coaches volunteered their services to me and worked with me more than others. I got by on true talent. And I was rewarded greatly for my talent no money required. When you have all those elements: true talent, passion, and heart for a sport nothing is going to hold you back. Anyone of any race can have that. Dear Lord I can go on and on on this subject.
With all that being said if your good your good. No matter the color of your skin. If it’s in you, it’s in you.
Just my 2 cents…
[quote]belligerent wrote:
heavythrower wrote: is the current 400 meter world record holder not white?
No, in fact.
[/quote]
Yah, Michael Johnson holds the record
[quote]lucasa wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if rasicm will ever go away.
Not as long as Jesse Jackson and other racists of both colors are alive.
Nature will find a way.
That’s pretty amazing.
[quote]tharren wrote:
belligerent wrote:
heavythrower wrote: is the current 400 meter world record holder not white?
No, in fact.
Yah, Michael Johnson holds the record[/quote]
Probably referring to Jeremy Wariner, who won the last olympic gold medal.
Pavle Jovanovic was caught for doping. Does not help the argument. Doh! Try another example.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
tharren wrote:
belligerent wrote:
heavythrower wrote: is the current 400 meter world record holder not white?
No, in fact.
Yah, Michael Johnson holds the record
Probably referring to Jeremy Wariner, who won the last olympic gold medal.[/quote]
I was going to make reference to him LOL that is one fast MOFO! My gawd I love watching him run!