Armour Thyroid

Training Bodybuilding
1

I am taking 100mgcyp 2xwk=200mg/wk. To boost my t3, which was mid range, my endo put me on 60mg Armour Thyroid 2x daily=120mg daily.

Has anyone had any experience with Armour Thyroid? My face is flush but aside from that, I feel pretty good.

I was on Andro for a year and have been on cyp injections for 6wks and take nothing else with it. No shrinking nads or sore nipples. I inject Sat. night and Wed morning. I have Arimidex but E @ 37 and no symptoms, endo said not to bother.

Any comments would be appreciated.

2

I use to take it but was switched to Synthroid when the Armour plant became contaminated about 2 years ago and the FDA banned the sale of it for quite a few months. I don’t notice any difference between the Armour Extract and the Syntroid.

3

What are the symptoms of E that you are considering when you do not take Arimidex?

37 can effect libido, and kill morning wood

4

[quote]KSman wrote:
What are the symptoms of E that you are considering when you do not take Arimidex?

37 can effect libido, and kill morning wood[/quote]

Hey KSman,
I have no soreness in my breasts or nipples as that was what he was concerned with.???

I have to be honest, I am actually seeing a little improvement in the wood area. I have noticed the last 3 to 5 days that I have had semi morning wood and my libido seems to be coming around.

So I am going to see if this continues to improve as my endo decreased my T from 400mg/wk to 200mg/wk. I get BW on the 22nd and see him in early March. If things don’t really improve by then, I will have him make some changes. I know stress wreaks havoc and my job is nuts. I want to be an air traffic controller for some relaxation.

Thanks

5

[quote]Avoids Roids wrote:
I use to take it but was switched to Synthroid when the Armour plant became contaminated about 2 years ago and the FDA banned the sale of it for quite a few months. I don’t notice any difference between the Armour Extract and the Syntroid.[/quote]

AR, did you ever get a flushed face on the Armour? People ask me where I’ve been. I know it can make you heart race, but that hasn’t been a problem. It seems to have given me some energy but it is hard to tell as I have had a bad cold for 2 wks.

Thanks

6

E at levels in normal range can effect libido and create brain fog and many other problems. Try the adex at 1mg/wk for a while and see if you feel better. The reference ranges are not levels that are known go be optimal, but are commonly found levels. You do not have to be out of range to have -ve effects from E. When I started adex, I felt improvements building over 3 months. But after 3-4 weeks, you should really know if you feel better on it.

[quote]olderguy wrote:
KSman wrote:
What are the symptoms of E that you are considering when you do not take Arimidex?

37 can effect libido, and kill morning wood

Hey KSman,
I have no soreness in my breasts or nipples as that was what he was concerned with.???

I have to be honest, I am actually seeing a little improvement in the wood area. I have noticed the last 3 to 5 days that I have had semi morning wood and my libido seems to be coming around.

So I am going to see if this continues to improve as my endo decreased my T from 400mg/wk to 200mg/wk. I get BW on the 22nd and see him in early March. If things don’t really improve by then, I will have him make some changes. I know stress wreaks havoc and my job is nuts. I want to be an air traffic controller for some relaxation.

Thanks[/quote]

7

No I never had any adverse reaction to the Armour or the Synthroid. Has your blood pressure risen?

8

[quote]Avoids Roids wrote:
No I never had any adverse reaction to the Armour or the Synthroid. Has your blood pressure risen?[/quote]

I haven’t had it checked since I’ve been on it. I’m going for BW on the 22nd so I’ll see. I told him about it and he said to cut my afternoon dose in half. Still have the flushed look. Hey, at least I have some color and not the winter pale look.

Thanks, I’ll let you know what he says.

9

[quote]olderguy wrote:
KSman wrote:
What are the symptoms of E that you are considering when you do not take Arimidex?

37 can effect libido, and kill morning wood

Hey KSman,
I have no soreness in my breasts or nipples as that was what he was concerned with.???

I have to be honest, I am actually seeing a little improvement in the wood area. I have noticed the last 3 to 5 days that I have had semi morning wood and my libido seems to be coming around.

So I am going to see if this continues to improve as my endo decreased my T from 400mg/wk to 200mg/wk. I get BW on the 22nd and see him in early March. If things don’t really improve by then, I will have him make some changes. I know stress wreaks havoc and my job is nuts. I want to be an air traffic controller for some relaxation.

Thanks[/quote]

Morning wood and Ideal E levels go hand in hand. If your not getting strong morning wood every morning, or most every morning, E levels are to high.

How is your concentration/short term memory? E levels affect that as well.

It seems like memory and morning wood are the first warning signs.

200mg test cyp per week is crazy high. The normal amount to mimic healthy production is 100 per week. Id be curious to know what your DHT and SHBG levels are. If they are not elevated by now, its only a matter of time before they are.

Kudos to your endo for helping you with your thyroid even though its at mid range levels(hell, even more kudos to him for giving you HRT). His knowledge just needs to be a bit more fine tuned.

10

[quote]V R wrote:
olderguy wrote:
KSman wrote:
What are the symptoms of E that you are considering when you do not take Arimidex?

37 can effect libido, and kill morning wood

Hey KSman,
I have no soreness in my breasts or nipples as that was what he was concerned with.???

I have to be honest, I am actually seeing a little improvement in the wood area. I have noticed the last 3 to 5 days that I have had semi morning wood and my libido seems to be coming around.

So I am going to see if this continues to improve as my endo decreased my T from 400mg/wk to 200mg/wk. I get BW on the 22nd and see him in early March. If things don’t really improve by then, I will have him make some changes. I know stress wreaks havoc and my job is nuts. I want to be an air traffic controller for some relaxation.

Thanks

Morning wood and Ideal E levels go hand in hand. If your not getting strong morning wood every morning, or most every morning, E levels are to high.

How is your concentration/short term memory? E levels affect that as well.

It seems like memory and morning wood are the first warning signs.

200mg test cyp per week is crazy high. The normal amount to mimic healthy production is 100 per week. Id be curious to know what your DHT and SHBG levels are. If they are not elevated by now, its only a matter of time before they are.

Kudos to your endo for helping you with your thyroid even though its at mid range levels(hell, even more kudos to him for giving you HRT). His knowledge just needs to be a bit more fine tuned. [/quote]

my dht is 137. That is from BW from 12/22 as was my E of 36. I started AI liquid 2x wk starting last Saturday and take 1/2mg tomorrow with my T. I am feeling a better, morning wood starting, and right, I was really starting to lose it. Confused and a little depressed, and had a bad cold to boot. I thought it was stress from work but no clarity at all. BW next week and a visit 3/12.
My endo has quite a large practice and claims to be lecturing. I know he is on HRT himself. He’s in his 40s. I asked him about HCG and he said he takes it but it isn’t for guys my age. I’m 54.
SI am seeing gains in the gym and have cut back to 3 x wk. Getting a little more rest. Seems to be working.
I don’t have anything on my BW about SHBG. I asked him about it and actually forget what he said.

Thanks for the feedback. I’m only using T injections since 12/06 (andro for a year or so), and have a lot to learn.
I know this post is all over the place but the AI hasn’t kicked in yet. LOL. Let’s hope that’s it and I’m just not brain dead.

11

[quote]olderguy wrote:

my dht is 137. That is from BW from 12/22 as was my E of 36. I started AI liquid 2x wk starting last Saturday and take 1/2mg tomorrow with my T. I am feeling a better, morning wood starting, and right, I was really starting to lose it. Confused and a little depressed, and had a bad cold to boot. I thought it was stress from work but no clarity at all. BW next week and a visit 3/12.
My endo has quite a large practice and claims to be lecturing. I know he is on HRT himself. He’s in his 40s. I asked him about HCG and he said he takes it but it isn’t for guys my age. I’m 54.
SI am seeing gains in the gym and have cut back to 3 x wk. Getting a little more rest. Seems to be working.
I don’t have anything on my BW about SHBG. I asked him about it and actually forget what he said.

Thanks for the feedback. I’m only using T injections since 12/06 (andro for a year or so), and have a lot to learn.
I know this post is all over the place but the AI hasn’t kicked in yet. LOL. Let’s hope that’s it and I’m just not brain dead.
[/quote]

Good news so far! Don’t bother with BW for SHBG as there is nothing that your doc would do about that drug wise. As you lower E, the SHBG may be reduced.

Watch your balls/scrotum and how they feel. They may get smaller than from the TD if the TD was not effective. The injections will be effective and will shut down LH if the TD had not already.

Then pester the doc if you want. Its not a medical necessity or fertility issue, but a quality of life issue for some.

12

[quote]KSman wrote:
olderguy wrote:

my dht is 137. That is from BW from 12/22 as was my E of 36. I started AI liquid 2x wk starting last Saturday and take 1/2mg tomorrow with my T. I am feeling a better, morning wood starting, and right, I was really starting to lose it. Confused and a little depressed, and had a bad cold to boot. I thought it was stress from work but no clarity at all. BW next week and a visit 3/12.
My endo has quite a large practice and claims to be lecturing. I know he is on HRT himself. He’s in his 40s. I asked him about HCG and he said he takes it but it isn’t for guys my age. I’m 54.
SI am seeing gains in the gym and have cut back to 3 x wk. Getting a little more rest. Seems to be working.
I don’t have anything on my BW about SHBG. I asked him about it and actually forget what he said.

Thanks for the feedback. I’m only using T injections since 12/06 (andro for a year or so), and have a lot to learn.
I know this post is all over the place but the AI hasn’t kicked in yet. LOL. Let’s hope that’s it and I’m just not brain dead.

Good news so far! Don’t bother with BW for SHBG as there is nothing that your doc would do about that drug wise. As you lower E, the SHBG may be reduced.

Watch your balls/scrotum and how they feel. They may get smaller than from the TD if the TD was not effective. The injections will be effective and will shut down LH if the TD had not already.

Then pester the doc if you want. Its not a medical necessity or fertility issue, but a quality of life issue for some.[/quote]

KSman,
What is TD?

13

[quote]olderguy wrote:
KSman,
What is TD?[/quote]

He’s talking about the TransDermal that you were on for a year.

Just started AI myself last week. Hoping it makes my stupid go away! My E must be sky hi because i am a moron.

Good Luck!

14

[quote]olderguy wrote:
KSman,
What is TD?[/quote]

He’s talking about the TransDermal that you were on for a year.

Just started AI myself last week. Hoping it makes my stupid go away! My E must be sky hi because i am a moron.

Good Luck!

15

[quote]olderguy wrote:
KSman,
What is TD?[/quote]

He’s talking about the TransDermal that you were on for a year.

Just started AI myself last week. Hoping it makes my stupid go away! My E must be sky hi because i am a moron.

Good Luck!

16

[quote]MichaelOH wrote:
olderguy wrote:
KSman,
What is TD?

He’s talking about the TransDermal that you were on for a year.

Just started AI myself last week. Hoping it makes my stupid go away! My E must be sky hi because i am a moron.

Good Luck!

[/quote]
Thanks, I took 1mg arimidex Sat night and 1/2 Wed am both with my T. I already feel the wood/libido improving. And I actually am thinking a little clearer. I know what you are talking about with the moron statement. I had a couple of days that I would have clearer thinking on LSD. It was that bad. The “brain fog” statements by KSman and VR finally clicked.

Good luck and let me know how you are progressing

17

[quote]olderguy wrote:
MichaelOH wrote:
olderguy wrote:
KSman,
What is TD?

He’s talking about the TransDermal that you were on for a year.

Just started AI myself last week. Hoping it makes my stupid go away! My E must be sky hi because i am a moron.

Good Luck!

Thanks, I took 1mg arimidex Sat night and 1/2 Wed am both with my T. I already feel the wood/libido improving. And I actually am thinking a little clearer. I know what you are talking about with the moron statement. I had a couple of days that I would have clearer thinking on LSD. It was that bad. The “brain fog” statements by KSman and VR finally clicked.

Good luck and let me know how you are progressing
[/quote]

Good to hear. The brain fog issue is difficult to tell people about unless they experience it for themselves.

Im dying over hear with the estradoil issue(47, 10-50). My short term memory is completely non existent. I forget everything. Im like an old man, constantly forgetting where I left my keys, what i was doing 5 minutes ago. As you can imagine, I can’t wait to see my doc in a few days.

Your DHT level is elevated, as I suspected. You want to strive for a level of 30 - 85, depending upon labs and measuring standards. I would personally stive for the high end, but as I though given your high HRT dose, your DHT is elevated as well. You want to get that T dose in the 100 per week range.

DHT is an extremely important hormone, the grandaddy of them all, and I really don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t choose health and well being over vanity and take a DHT lowering drug like propecia/finasteride.

Screw the hair. I’d rather feel/perform better. I don’t understand why everyone doesn’t seem to think the way I do on this issue.

18

[quote]V R wrote:
olderguy wrote:
MichaelOH wrote:
olderguy wrote:
KSman,
What is TD?

He’s talking about the TransDermal that you were on for a year.

Just started AI myself last week. Hoping it makes my stupid go away! My E must be sky hi because i am a moron.

Good Luck!

Thanks, I took 1mg arimidex Sat night and 1/2 Wed am both with my T. I already feel the wood/libido improving. And I actually am thinking a little clearer. I know what you are talking about with the moron statement. I had a couple of days that I would have clearer thinking on LSD. It was that bad. The “brain fog” statements by KSman and VR finally clicked.

Good luck and let me know how you are progressing

Good to hear. The brain fog issue is difficult to tell people about unless they experience it for themselves.

Im dying over hear with the estradoil issue(47, 10-50). My short term memory is completely non existent. I forget everything. Im like an old man, constantly forgetting where I left my keys, what i was doing 5 minutes ago. As you can imagine, I can’t wait to see my doc in a few days.

Your DHT level is elevated, as I suspected. You want to strive for a level of 30 - 85, depending upon labs and measuring standards. I would personally stive for the high end, but as I though given your high HRT dose, your DHT is elevated as well. You want to get that T dose in the 100 per week range.

DHT is an extremely important hormone, the grandaddy of them all, and I really don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t choose health and well being over vanity and take a DHT lowering drug like propecia/finasteride.

Screw the hair. I’d rather feel/perform better. I don’t understand why everyone doesn’t seem to think the way I do on this issue. [/quote]

I’m hoping my hair doesn’t become an issue. It’s pretty thick and grey. Hey, what the fuck. But I know what you mean about the fog. I work on a trading floor where you have to keep track of what you are working order wise and I had some days where I felt like I got in the business a month ago. It sucked, and I didn’t realize it until it was pounded into my head by you and KSman. Thank god. I feel less bloated and my appitite is better. And I’ve lost about 8 lbs. Things are better all around and like KSman or you said, I might feel better in a week and I do.

Thanks to both of you and good luck VR with your MD.

19

[quote]olderguy wrote:
V R wrote:
olderguy wrote:
MichaelOH wrote:
olderguy wrote:
KSman,
What is TD?

He’s talking about the TransDermal that you were on for a year.

Just started AI myself last week. Hoping it makes my stupid go away! My E must be sky hi because i am a moron.

Good Luck!

Thanks, I took 1mg arimidex Sat night and 1/2 Wed am both with my T. I already feel the wood/libido improving. And I actually am thinking a little clearer. I know what you are talking about with the moron statement. I had a couple of days that I would have clearer thinking on LSD. It was that bad. The “brain fog” statements by KSman and VR finally clicked.

Good luck and let me know how you are progressing

Good to hear. The brain fog issue is difficult to tell people about unless they experience it for themselves.

Im dying over hear with the estradoil issue(47, 10-50). My short term memory is completely non existent. I forget everything. Im like an old man, constantly forgetting where I left my keys, what i was doing 5 minutes ago. As you can imagine, I can’t wait to see my doc in a few days.

Your DHT level is elevated, as I suspected. You want to strive for a level of 30 - 85, depending upon labs and measuring standards. I would personally stive for the high end, but as I though given your high HRT dose, your DHT is elevated as well. You want to get that T dose in the 100 per week range.

DHT is an extremely important hormone, the grandaddy of them all, and I really don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t choose health and well being over vanity and take a DHT lowering drug like propecia/finasteride.

Screw the hair. I’d rather feel/perform better. I don’t understand why everyone doesn’t seem to think the way I do on this issue.

I’m hoping my hair doesn’t become an issue. It’s pretty thick and grey. Hey, what the fuck. But I know what you mean about the fog. I work on a trading floor where you have to keep track of what you are working order wise and I had some days where I felt like I got in the business a month ago. It sucked, and I didn’t realize it until it was pounded into my head by you and KSman. Thank god. I feel less bloated and my appitite is better. And I’ve lost about 8 lbs. Things are better all around and like KSman or you said, I might feel better in a week and I do.

Thanks to both of you and good luck VR with your MD.[/quote]

Excellent. Changes on a cellular level take months. So you will continue to feel better every single day.

Now that you have that in gear, lets work on getting that test dose lower. Strive for more frequent injections, EOD if you can handle it, if not every 3 days. Do a search on a thread called (In praise of TRT + AI). You really want to get your dose in the 100mg per week range.

Your DHT level is elevated. We need to work to get that down. If not so much for the hair, more so for the prostate. DHT is important, but like every hormone, needs to be in proper range. Elevated DHT will cause the prostate to swell.

Enlarged prostate gland will cause a whole host of problems, like difficulty urinating, waking during the night to urinate, weakened urine/ejaculate flow. Yea, bunch of stuff you dont want. By lowering dose of T, less T will covert to DHT, which will naturally cause DHT levels to fall.

These are all things you can write out, research yourself and bring to your MD to discuss.

20

Just a comment on blood work. Ask you doctor (or his staff) to give you a copy of the report. They shouldn’t hesitate and having the results in hand makes it easy to do your own research. You’re way ahead of the pack by taking responsibility for your own health!