Steroids for General Health

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
1

Looking at all the interesting available data, there is broad consensus (almost unanimous, in fact) among physicians and experts that regimens of testosterone are good for men over 40 who are showing signs of low testosterone, low libido, etc. And, testosterone injections of men in their 60’s and 70’s improves health greatly.

Does anyone here know what such a regimen would look like? This board focuses on doses and stacks geared toward bodybuilding, getting huge, getting ripped, etc. These doses, I would imagine, are higher for their short term use in bodybuilding and are much higher than what would be considered “therapeutic” for general good health.

If one went to an “anti-aging” clinic and showed they had all of the symptoms associated with low test, etc., then what would the dosing look like? And, doses of what? Is this therapy mainly testosterone? Or, do doctors use other things, too. And if they do, then what other things do they use? And how much of it?

2

If you do a search for

HRT

or

TRT

you will come up with quite a few interesting threads here.

As somebody who is on testosterone replacement therapy because of primary hypogonadism, let me tell you that, at least for me, it is not a picnic. So far getting my treatment in order has been an chore at best, and ordeal at worst. If you don’t need it, I wouldn’t get involved with it.

ON EDIT – I don’t think I was so clear here – have hopefully clarified in later posts.

3

For TRT the goal is to get you into a level of test that is both in the normal zone and relieves symptoms of low test.

5

Oh, it is just that it is taking me a long to get stabilized.

Some guys do really well with the first treatment that is prescribed.

In my case androgel did not work. So a few months burned up to find that out.

Then after that Striant did not work. Another few months there.

Now I am on injections, but the dosage is still being tweaked. More months of experimentation until things get right.

Once things are properly dialed in I expect things will be great. But getting there is taking a while.

7

I’ve read articles, and even talked to two guys with direct experience, who say that injected testosterone is said to give one a sense of well-being, imporoved sexual health, reduces (almost to zero) incidents of tendonitis, imporoves strength, etc. I don’t know if this is replacement therapy or testosterone augmentation.

One of the guys I mentioned had just come off a pretty bad case of the flu. He was over it, but was still feeling significantly sub-par. He was scheduled to go to a wedding on the east coast a week later. He pleaded with the doctor to give him something that would “knock it out” for hi trip. The doctor injected him with what he said was a “steroid” and he says he felt so good for the next two weeks after that. A complete turnaround. His energy increased, his attitude improved, and he was motivated to exercise more than ever during that time.

If this was a steroid of some sort, then I guess I can’t reconcile the experience of my friend with the difficulties described by e-loo.

8

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I mean no offence, but aren’t you the guy who went and changed a lot of variables in a rather quick space of time?

I seem to recall you yoyoing doses of both test cyp and arimidex, from week to week almost.[/quote]

Don’t think so – (I think I know the guy you are talking about though)

I started treatment back in Aug '06. After trying the transdermal stuff it has looked like this:

From Oct to April I was on 1ML of test every 14 days (dosage divided up)

Since late April I have been on 1ML of test every 10 days. I did add AI at that time on my own (I had very high normal E2 level, doc said only steroid users need AI – so out of frustration I added that).

I am getting closer to feeling how I ought to feel I think – maybe 80% there.

My main complaints were brain fog, low libido, fatigue.

Brain fog and libido (ON EDIT) are greatly improved. Fatigue still an issue.

I have a doctor visit coming up and expect the dosage to be changed again.

One of my problems is my doc has not been very accessible and we don’t click well. Happily I am getting a new doc.

This new doc tells me that you need at least 3 months to evaluate the effectiveness a dosage change in terms of how you feel. To me that sounds about right.

I expect that eventually I will get it all sorted out.

I probably should of kept my mouth shut on this thread, but I don’t think I am saying anything earth shattering or negative about TRT.

All I am saying is that it isn’t an instant quick fix.

Some guys get there treatment right really quick.

Others, like me, seem to take a long time getting the treatment and dosage dialed in properly. (especially if three months to evaluate the effectiveness of a dose change)

9

I think we are getting our wires crossed, Glute –

All I am trying to say is:

For anybody who needs HRT it is a godsend.

Just be aware though that it may not be a quick fix.

It takes time to see how your body will react to the different delivery methods/dosages/etc.

Some guys are lucky and hit upon the perfect treatment first time out.

Others, like me, have to go thru some trial and error before getting everything just right.

FWIW here’s the ADAM screening test to see if you may be suffering from low testosterone:

http://www.adamtest.com/test5.asp

  1. Have you experienced a decrease in your sex drive (libido)?

  2. Do you lack energy?

  3. Have you lost height?

  4. Has your strength and/or endurance decreased?

  5. Have you noticed yourself enjoying life less?

  6. Are you frequently sad or irritable?

  7. Are your erections less strong?

  8. Have you noticed a recent deterioration in your athletic ability?

  9. Do you find yourself falling asleep after dinner?

  10. Has there been a recent deterioration in your work performance?

11

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Also, what is the ester of the test? If it is enan, then I’m not surprised that you are not happy with the protocol.[/quote]

oops – 200mg/ml, test enan

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:*I would like to emphasise that:

TRT IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE DOCTOR WHO ADMINISTERS/MONITORS IT.

150mg of test decanoate, each week (but split so that there is an injection every 4 days). Run this for 6 weeks, and then re-evaluate, possibly increasing the dose to 200mg total per week.[/quote]

Yep, that’s why I am changing doctors – It has taken a while for me to find one, and I found this one almost by accident. My current doc simply does not listen to me. This one seems like he might.

Hey GluteActivation, I did not mean to hijack your thread. Again there many great threads here re TRT and what gets prescribed and dosages.

–

12

I think e-loo and Bushy are referring to me. I’m the guy always changing things up. But like e-loo, after a lot of trial and error, endo starting me off at 400mg/wk cyp, which I cut to 200mg/wk which I have tapered to 160/wk, things are working out ok.

I had bw done last week and will post results. With 200/wk I was at 1700 and ft% was off the charts as well.

13

Useful links put together by an over-35 T-Nation poster:

Testosterone Replacement Therapy

Orig T-Nation post:

HRT/TRT Information
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1529549

14

[quote]GluteActivation wrote:
{snip}
Does anyone here know what such a regimen would look like? This board focuses on doses and stacks geared toward bodybuilding, getting huge, getting ripped, etc. These doses, I would imagine, are higher for their short term use in bodybuilding and are much higher than what would be considered “therapeutic” for general good health.

If one went to an “anti-aging” clinic and showed they had all of the symptoms associated with low test, etc., then what would the dosing look like? And, doses of what? Is this therapy mainly testosterone? Or, do doctors use other things, too. And if they do, then what other things do they use? And how much of it?[/quote]

Check out this for your answers:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/crisler/testosterone-replacement-therapy.htm

The saying “everybody is different” applies greatly to medical issues so remember that when doing your reading. It is also good to note that none of the “anti-aging” websites that I have seen ever address the negatives of TRT and I’m not talking about the nonsense tossed around by the anti-steroid fanatics.

15

Gentlemen,

My experience with T-therapy. Hope it helps. I will tell you it is worth it.

I have been on T-Therapy for about a year no issues. Gel does not work but you got to go through the steps. Doc’s don’t like to prescribe the injectables because of all the contoversy.

The patches work really well but you’ll lose it at the beach or while squatting at the gym. been there done that.

My doctor actually told me to adjust the dose over time up and down till I felt good in the libido department. I am back to everyday sex and usually a minimum twice on the weekends. I did not want to give that up and it was slipping away.

Also had the mental fatigue and exhaustion. My general doctor kept trying to put me on Effexor and Zoloft. (Talk about a cloudy head)!!! This shit more toxic than T.

Then the Viagra…that shit gets you through sex but you get the flu the whole time and sensitivity is still low.

Doctor notes…

He used to look at me and say your built like a brick shit house what could be wrong with you…Bad doctor!! It does not matter how I look its how I am feeling. Listen to my words.

After a great deal of arguing I got the dick to check my testosterone. It was in the shitter. Fired him and found myself a specialist.

I warn you all you have to find a Doc that is open T-therapy. Many don’t understand it or believe in it. General Ps don’t even want to check it for some reason.

Men are discriminated against in this area (hormone therapy) and I don’t know why. If your a male in your mid 40’s and your T-level is 250 or 300 nl/cc (not sure on the units, I think it is nano-liter per cc), and normal 200-1200 nl/cc) and you have all the other andropause negative symptoms what hell is wrong with 750-800 if you have not other problem associated with it.

I know people who had liberal doctors that helped them at T level 350 nl/cc others got shot down at 250?

It is so ridiculus they will turn a women into a man or a man into a women or give a women her choice which is estrogen therapy, but they won’t help a man be the man he wants to be with just a little T. Where is our choices?

I will be frank about the perceived gains though. I would not say there is hugh gains in my muscle mass or strength. I gained 6 to 7 lbs. (May not be true for everyone).

The gains were more in the self confidence confidence of handling the weight (mental). The reps are more positive and it seems easier to keep form ect. Not feeling beat by the work out before it starts.

Still have the joint issues like occasional tendinitis. Did not see any improvement there.

I hope this helps. Sorry for some of the ranting.

16

This has been really interesting. I have heard a lot about the wide ranging temperament of doctors when it comes to judging what test levels merit injectable T. It would be nice if there was a web database somewhere with lists of doctors who are more lenient when it comes to prescribing test.

I am 44, have been lifting free weights seriously for three years. (“Posed” with Nautilus equipment and LifeCycles with very little intensity for about 7 years before that. Before that, I ran about 10 miles per day, for a “whole bunch” of years.) The only questions on the ADAM screening test I answered “no” to were #3 (I haven’t lost any height) and #6 (sad and irritable). I have all the rest of those conditions to a pretty severe degree.

I need testosterone levels measured. The info out there as to which hormone levels to test for is pretty confusing. If I get them all, it gets really expensive. I don’t know if my HMO will do it just for the asking. If they say no, then I’ll spend a few hundred of my own with an independent lab.

Any suggestions as to the minimum number of hormone labs to perform that’ll tell the story? Total test? “Bioavailable” test? Free test? If I did all the labs in the John Crisler article, it’d cost a ton.

Thanks for the posts - and the links. I’m reading every on of them. Great resources!

18

One more thing on the T therapy, most insurance plans will not cover the injectables like cypionate. They try to deny us males everything. Don’t let that scare you.

You’ll get the panicked pharmacy worker. Sir this isn’t covered!!! Then everyone in line behind you gasps like someone just fell off a building in front of them.

Thing is the out of pocket expense for the gel and patch was so high; at least with my insurance, which is a good plan. I could pay for the cypionate out of pocket and at least break or save a little money. This also depends on your dose of course.

Is about $100 for 10CC 200 MG Generic T-cypionate. Cost insignificant. Approx 8-10 week, 1cc-1.5cc per week. $50 for 4-5 weeks. I think this is like the worst case dose too.

Stop buying those T boosting supplements that don’t work and get the real stuff. Will save some more here money too.

In dollars terms its less than people spend for lunch in 1 week. See what people spend in Starbuck’s every day twice a day (oof).

Point is its worth every penny.

Here is some more ranting/musing of our oxymoronic health care system…

I love this stuff…go to the doctor because you have been a fat slob your hole life shoveling food in your face and insurance will pay for tons of pills, gastric by pass surgery and probably getting the hugh chunks of fat sucked off your body then a tummy tuck cause your back hurts from carrying around a ton of fat.

Shit my girl friend got her tits cut off (reduced) and a lifted and insurance covered. They were big but really nothing wrong with them, they weren’t mega big. It was a crime really, there was nothing wrong with them, she just did not like them. Again female advantage.

But…if your a bad ass, jacked male who has stayed in shape your whole life through hard work, running, weight training and eating good food they want to deny you the little bit of “T” you need for your MAN to stay the way you like and your body you worked so hard for to last a little longer so you can still work hard at being healthy.

Its my body I should be able to do what the hell I want especially since I am paying.

Other benefit I have noticed…

Also one last serious point… I have not had a serious sickness since I have been on the T therapy. Apr 2006, no flu, no stomach virus maybe one mild mild cold. Thats it. Whats that tell you. It also jacks up the immune system.

And I was around all kind of sick people too. I have sex with my girlfriends whether sick or not. When its time to pound you got to pound. They’ll live.

It seemed I started getting sick all the time in my early 40’s in the winter time. At least recently…no more. This winter will be the test.

Steroid evils hyped like crazy…

I wish some doctor with balls would get on the TV and say there is nothing wrong with this is adminstered properly.

I promise you they will never let him on Oprah…ever!

Is the liberal media afraid that manly men full of testosterone are going to take over the world and outer space. Guess what we already did thousands of years ago and will continue to do so.

It gets lumped into the negative steroid stigma. I even feel guilty because I am now on a steroid after 25 years of steroid free training. I thought it was bad and evil too.

You don’t want to tell any one because there is no positives associated with it as far as the general population is concerned.

G

19

You need to go to a doctor @ yr HMO and explain that you think you are suffering from low test and why. Ask him to order the labs.

My GP was the first to test me – he ordered

Total Test
Free Test
Estradiol

Once it was determined I had low test, I was referred to an endocrinologist who did further testing to determine exactly what was going on (primary vs secondary hypogonadism, etc.)

As to a list of doctors maybe this old website will help:

National Testosterone Tuneup:

http://www.tuneupyourt.com/find_a_doctor.html

20

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
e-loo wrote:

As somebody who is on testosterone replacement therapy because of primary hypogonadism, let me tell you that, at least for me, it is not a picnic. So far getting my treatment in order has been an chore at best, and ordeal at worst. If you don’t need it, I wouldn’t get involved with it.

I mean no offence, but aren’t you the guy who went and changed a lot of variables in a rather quick space of time?

I seem to recall you yoyoing doses of both test cyp and arimidex, from week to week almost.

Or have I got the wrong guy?

Bushy[/quote]

You are thinking of me, bro.