I can’t believe this thread is still going on.
For the record I really don’t think you even need to be a teen with a fast metabolism to have something like a hamburger. It’s just ground up beef…unless it’s the type with a lot of trans fat (i.e. McDonalds) I see no problem with having ground beef (“hamburgers”) often.
upon awakening- 1 scoop optimum whey with water
30-40min later 4 whole eggs 1 bowl oatmeal and 16oz 2% milk (cause i dont like whole)
2-2.5 hours later - 4 spoons peanut butter
1200ish calories so far
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I can’t believe this thread is still going on.
For the record I really don’t think you even need to be a teen with a fast metabolism to have something like a hamburger. It’s just ground up beef…unless it’s the type with a lot of trans fat (i.e. McDonalds) I see no problem with having ground beef (“hamburgers”) often.[/quote]
Seriously. It’s red meat, bread, and some veggies. Unless it’s a fast food burger dripping with grease (even then, press a napkin into it to get out what you can… better than going hungry), I wouldn’t worry about it.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
It’s just ground up beef…unless it’s the type with a lot of trans fat (i.e. McDonalds) I see no problem with having ground beef (“hamburgers”) often.
[/quote]
Again-- the “Fast Food Burger = Bad” thing is a misconception. You’d think McDonalds would be the worst, but really their burgers are not any worse than any other ground beef. Each 1/4 pound has about a gram of natural trans fat like any other 1/4 of ground beef. There’s probably shortening in the buns which might add some trans fat.
McD’s Sandwiches (click on them to drill down on details):
http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/nutritionexchange/nutritionComparison.do
It’s one thing if you’re going to say ‘pat the burger to get out some of the grease’ or ‘scrape of the mayo’ or something, but stop propagating the misconception that BK, McD, Wendy’s etc burgers are anything but USDA beef. Yeah, they’re not 90% lean ground beef, but they’re no worse than the ground beef you get at the market.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
It’s just ground up beef…unless it’s the type with a lot of trans fat (i.e. McDonalds) I see no problem with having ground beef (“hamburgers”) often.
[/quote]
Again-- the “Fast Food Burger = Bad” thing is a misconception. You’d think McDonalds would be the worst, but really their burgers are not any worse than any other ground beef. Each 1/4 pound has about a gram of natural trans fat like any other 1/4 of ground beef. There’s probably shortening in the buns which might add some trans fat.
McD’s Sandwiches (click on them to drill down on details):
http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/nutritionexchange/nutritionComparison.do
It’s one thing if you’re going to say ‘pat the burger to get out some of the grease’ or ‘scrape of the mayo’ or something, but stop propagating the misconception that BK, McD, Wendy’s etc burgers are anything but USDA beef. Yeah, they’re not 90% lean ground beef, but they’re no worse than the ground beef you get at the market.[/quote]
I was saying burgers were OK. I think you’d be better off which some higher quality bread but as far as the meat goes (which is the main part I was referring to) then it’s not going to be that different which was my point
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
It’s just ground up beef…unless it’s the type with a lot of trans fat (i.e. McDonalds) I see no problem with having ground beef (“hamburgers”) often.
[/quote]
Again-- the “Fast Food Burger = Bad” thing is a misconception. You’d think McDonalds would be the worst, but really their burgers are not any worse than any other ground beef. Each 1/4 pound has about a gram of natural trans fat like any other 1/4 of ground beef. There’s probably shortening in the buns which might add some trans fat.
McD’s Sandwiches (click on them to drill down on details):
http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/nutritionexchange/nutritionComparison.do
It’s one thing if you’re going to say ‘pat the burger to get out some of the grease’ or ‘scrape of the mayo’ or something, but stop propagating the misconception that BK, McD, Wendy’s etc burgers are anything but USDA beef. Yeah, they’re not 90% lean ground beef, but they’re no worse than the ground beef you get at the market.[/quote]
I was saying burgers were OK. I think you’d be better off which some higher quality bread but as far as the meat goes (which is the main part I was referring to) then it’s not going to be that different which was my point[/quote]
Actually, the point is it is fucking sad that this now needs to be explained to people.
It is a complete 180 degree turn from the late 80’s when every single ad was for a weight gainer with over 1,000cals per serving.
I also don’t remember people becoming obese back then as a result. I am convinced that people used to actually think things through much better than people today. The internet has apparently numbed down the average mind…at least that is my opinion.
As a newb, I wanted to be fucking huge…so I accepted that some amount of fat would come but realized that the added inches on the rest of me was even more impressive. There is no way in hell I would have avoided calorically dense foods for fear of “eating dirty-whatever the hell that means”.
Either way, judging by how many times this thread has been read, apparently quite a few people are interested in this topic.
People make this complicated because of their own personal issues with food. I doubt it is actually the hardcore lifters who have this much of a problem eating.
In addition to the scale, it’s also useful to judge how much you should eat by your lifts. For instance if you stall on all your lifts and you rule out training and sleep, you can almost bet you aren’t eating enough calories so bump them up 200-500 and see if they start going up again.
I think a beginner can add weight much more rapidly than an intermediate or advanced trainee so the jump in calories should reflect that.
OP, just use a calculator online to calculate you maintenance calorie requirements for your total daily expenditure. Add 500-1000 to this number and start from there, watch the scale and shoot for putting on 2lb per week. After a while things will slow down but as long as your lifts keep going up you are eating enough. When they stall or the scale stops for a couple of weeks, add around 200-500 and see if that starts things back again. No need to count to the t, just estimation is close enough.
Don’t loose sleep over the types of foods you’re eating. Make milk a staple food if you can, try to drink at least a half gallon per day. The rest of your food can come from fast food, burgers, steaks and potatoes, pringles, whatever just keep track of the total calories you’re consuming. It’s easiest to start by writing everything down on paper and then eventually you will get good at just estimating and can count calories in your head.
I too started out trying to do little mini bulk/cut cycles and slow bulks but I’ve made by best gains by just staying the course and letting my belly get a little chubby. After all, fat can be lost in a matter of months, but muscle takes years to acquire a decent amount. Good luck and do your squats.
If you can get in 4500 clean calories, do it cleanly, if you can’t, get as many clean calories in before you start eating the junk.
I’d eat the DC way, never mix carbs and fats, eat protein first in your meal, than the carbs, have a carb cutoff at 6-7 pm and do cardio if necessary to maintain at least a bit of leaness.
The dirtier the bulk, the more damage control, and although it may take a relatively short amount of time to lose fat, the more damage control you have, the greater the chance to be dieting off muscle as well.
I think a primarily clean bulk is the best. I feel not all calories are created equal, 1000 calories from beef is better than 1000 calories from whey protein and 1000 calories from yams is better than a 1000 calories from potato chips.
I mean fuck, if I could afford it I’d only eat clean foods, I don’t see why someone would advocate not doing so especially for heart health and whatever other medical conditions come from putting on a rapid amound of weight quickly, mcdonald burgers with all the sodium, fat and cholesterol just don’t seem worth it to me to be something as a staple in someones bulk.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
If you can get in 4500 clean calories, do it cleanly, if you can’t, get as many clean calories in before you start eating the junk.
I’d eat the DC way, never mix carbs and fats, eat protein first in your meal, than the carbs, have a carb cutoff at 6-7 pm and do cardio if necessary to maintain at least a bit of leaness.
The dirtier the bulk, the more damage control, and although it may take a relatively short amount of time to lose fat, the more damage control you have, the greater the chance to be dieting off muscle as well.
I think a primarily clean bulk is the best. I feel not all calories are created equal, 1000 calories from beef is better than 1000 calories from whey protein and 1000 calories from yams is better than a 1000 calories from potato chips.
I mean fuck, if I could afford it I’d only eat clean foods, I don’t see why someone would advocate not doing so especially for heart health and whatever other medical conditions come from putting on a rapid amound of weight quickly, mcdonald burgers with all the sodium, fat and cholesterol just don’t seem worth it to me to be something as a staple in someones bulk. [/quote]
The point is, this either or mentality is bullshit. No, most people eating under 4,000cals don’t need to go much out of their way to get their calories down and learning how to eat well is needed. HOWEVER, if some newb who plays football for 4-5 hours day on top of a full class load who has a fast metabolism and needs over 5,000cals a day is worried so much about eating some fast food if needed that they don’t grow, THAT is what we have seen as a result of people simply acting like “eating clean” is the primary goal.
IT ISN’T.
No one gives a shit how clean the 150lbs 6’2" guy eats.
No one in their right mind is going to tell the 260lbs guy at 5’11" with no belly hanging with 19" arms that he is eating wrong because he had lunch at Wendy’s.
Perspective is needed here.
[quote]dankid wrote:
[quote]jarvis wrote:
[quote]dankid wrote:
Right now, you cant go wrong with BK’s double cheeseburgers. $1 gets you 450 calories and 30g of protein. [/quote]
This is absolutely true. I’ve been on a ‘Cheeseburger Cycling Diet’ recently and it is unbelievable how well it has worked. I can inhale 3 double cheeseburgers in 5 minutes and end up with close to 1500kCal split evenly (P/C/F).
I don’t think I could even make that at home for as little as 3 bucks.
BKs share price actually took a hit after franchisees complained that they were being forced to sell the burgers at below cost. [/quote]
Ya, I have a joke with my friends that im trying to put BK out of business. Also, a lot of other fast food places have stuff on their dollar menus that are pretty dense in calories. Great for us bulking, not so great for the rest of the population that is obese.
Im curious about how you are cycling things. I myself find that with any kind “junk” my body can only handle so much. If im doing somthing like double cheeseburgers every other day, i’ll only make it for about 1-2 weeks before I need a break. .[/quote]
As far as ‘cycling’ goes I’ve been trying to gain between 1-2 lbs a week and am up around 25lbs since early September (some of this was evidently rebound after cutting to make a lower weight class in jiu-jitsu).
If I ever see a stall in my weight for 4 or 5 days I will implement the 3 cheeseburgers post-workout. I can tell if this is the right thing to do as I will put all 3 down in the time it takes people with me to eat 1 (this is whilst consuming 2 finibars, a full serving of surge and MAG10 peri-workout). I will generally continue this for 4 or 5 training days and then stick to my usual bulking diet.
I eat pretty much the same meals every day so its easy to keep track of things.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
If you can get in 4500 clean calories, do it cleanly, if you can’t, get as many clean calories in before you start eating the junk.
I’d eat the DC way, never mix carbs and fats, eat protein first in your meal, than the carbs, have a carb cutoff at 6-7 pm and do cardio if necessary to maintain at least a bit of leaness.
The dirtier the bulk, the more damage control, and although it may take a relatively short amount of time to lose fat, the more damage control you have, the greater the chance to be dieting off muscle as well.
I think a primarily clean bulk is the best. I feel not all calories are created equal, 1000 calories from beef is better than 1000 calories from whey protein and 1000 calories from yams is better than a 1000 calories from potato chips.
I mean fuck, if I could afford it I’d only eat clean foods, I don’t see why someone would advocate not doing so especially for heart health and whatever other medical conditions come from putting on a rapid amound of weight quickly, mcdonald burgers with all the sodium, fat and cholesterol just don’t seem worth it to me to be something as a staple in someones bulk. [/quote]
The point is, this either or mentality is bullshit. No, most people eating under 4,000cals don’t need to go much out of their way to get their calories down and learning how to eat well is needed. HOWEVER, if some newb who plays football for 4-5 hours day on top of a full class load who has a fast metabolism and needs over 5,000cals a day is worried so much about eating some fast food if needed that they don’t grow, THAT is what we have seen as a result of people simply acting like “eating clean” is the primary goal.
IT ISN’T.
No one gives a shit how clean the 150lbs 6’2" guy eats.
No one in their right mind is going to tell the 260lbs guy at 5’11" with no belly hanging with 19" arms that he is eating wrong because he had lunch at Wendy’s.
Perspective is needed here.[/quote]
I don’t think so, Ill admit the occasional burger from mcdonalds is fine, but all the sodium, fat, healthrisks of eating mcdonalds burgers everyday, just turns me off on recomending this to someone.
The goal for me is to become as big and strong as I possibly can but also have bodyfat levels in which I look good and to me that’s an off season bodybuilder look with at least some site of abs and veins running through my biceps.
I think eating steak, potatoes and mixed vegetables for all my calories during the day would give me a better physique than I diet with Mcdonalds, hoe hoes and protein shakes. That’s just my opinion. I bulked dirty and after a point I just wasn’t too happy with it. Right now I’m doing maintance control, getting down to 240, granted I’m still hitting PRs on all my exercises and once I get to a leaness I enjoy, I will be on a full out clean bulk eating multiple meals of meat and potatoes, shakes in between and trying to get to a level at where I can hang with the big boys on stage.
I’m not saying eat 100% clean, but also this 150 pound 6’2" person is an extreme case. I’m talking for a normal sized individual. Stay healthy, eat good foods, strive to increase weight on exercises each week and you’ll be well on your way to a great physique.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
The goal for me is to become as big and strong as I possibly can but also have bodyfat levels in which I look good and to me that’s an off season bodybuilder look with at least some site of abs and veins running through my biceps. [/quote]
Dude, you aren’t that lean right now. Are you being true with yourself? I’ve posted enough pics on this site to last a life time so I am not sure why you wrote this…as if my goal is to become obese. I am also not writing anything here that I haven’t done myself. You have a whole gang of newbs on this site afraid to even eat enough to grow because they think you can’t gain more than .25lbs of muscle a month…yet these are the ones you think need to hear that they should avoid calorically dense foods at all costs?
[quote]
I think eating steak, potatoes and mixed vegetables for all my calories during the day would give me a better physique than I diet with Mcdonalds, hoe hoes and protein shakes. That’s just my opinion. I bulked dirty and after a point I just wasn’t too happy with it. Right now I’m doing maintance control, getting down to 240, granted I’m still hitting PRs on all my exercises and once I get to a leaness I enjoy, I will be on a full out clean bulk eating multiple meals of meat and potatoes, shakes in between and trying to get to a level at where I can hang with the big boys on stage. [/quote]
You eat according to the results you get.
DID YOU READ THAT?
Wait, lee me capitalize that as well:
YOU FUCKING EAT ACCORDING TO THE RESULTS YOU GET…period.
No one is even fucking saying to ADD Mc Donald’s to a diet if you can get the calories from “healthier” (again whatever that means as if there is no relatively healthy food at Mc Donald’s) sources.
How basic do we need to write this for people to get it?
Hell, most of the people here aren’t training hard enough to even be a part of this discussion.
…and did you write “hoe hoe’s”? Do I even look like someone who eats cupcakes all day long?
[quote]
I’m not saying eat 100% clean, but also this 150 pound 6’2" person is an extreme case. I’m talking for a normal sized individual. Stay healthy, eat good foods, strive to increase weight on exercises each week and you’ll be well on your way to a great physique. [/quote]
Extreme? Have you looked around the forum? Most of the people wouldn’t even pass for “moderately built” as compared to the average regular gym goer.
Screw mickey d’s, just buy some ground beef and buns and make good burgers at the house. Grill like 10 half pound burger pattys and throw them in the fridge. Just microwave and eat throughout the week.
The Grill is the bulker’s best friend. You can cook your food in bulk and it’s easy to clean, no dishes or messy counters to clean. Plus a gas grill is a cinch to heat up.
EAT THE BURGER! SQUATS AND MILK!!
a burger is a burger is a burger… McD’s, BK, home… its beef its bread… i just had 2 doubles from BK and enjoyed the shit out of them…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
YOU FUCKING EAT ACCORDING TO THE RESULTS YOU GET…period.
[/quote]
This.
If your training hard like you should eventually whatever you’re eating will stop producing results (gym and scale), then it’s time to bump it up with another cheeseburger or 3 glasses of milk per day. If things pick back up leave the diet alone until something stalls again.
Yeah you’re going to gain some fat this way but the way I look at it is if you initially gain 1 pound of muscle for every 2 pounds of fat on say 3800 calories per day, as muscle is built you will eventually be on the other end of the spectrum where 3800 cals gets you 2 pounds of muscle and 1 pound of fat. Then 3800 will just be enough to maintain so you bump it to 4k or slightly more and repeat.
[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
a burger is a burger is a burger… McD’s, BK, home… its beef its bread… i just had 2 doubles from BK and enjoyed the shit out of them…[/quote]
I take it you’ve never worked at mcondalds or bk.
like someone stated earlier… at these animal processing plants its all inspected… i’d like to think its inspected well… but these same plants process food for walmart and other stores as well as McD’s… now whether my burger had a lugie in it or not i’m not sure… i may have got some extra calories in there if so…
but to answer no i havent worked in the food industry… dont tell me too many stories or i probably wont eat out any where…
[quote]elano wrote:
[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
a burger is a burger is a burger… McD’s, BK, home… its beef its bread… i just had 2 doubles from BK and enjoyed the shit out of them…[/quote]
I take it you’ve never worked at mcondalds or bk. [/quote]
I’ve worked as a cook in a well respected restaurant in a wealthy town for 5 years. And I’ve worked for Taco Bell. The rules for handling the food and expiring were better enforced at taco bell.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]elano wrote:
[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
a burger is a burger is a burger… McD’s, BK, home… its beef its bread… i just had 2 doubles from BK and enjoyed the shit out of them…[/quote]
I take it you’ve never worked at mcondalds or bk. [/quote]
I’ve worked as a cook in a well respected restaurant in a wealthy town for 5 years. And I’ve worked for Taco Bell. The rules for handling the food and expiring were better enforced at taco bell. [/quote]
You bastard…
Don’t tell me these things. 
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]elano wrote:
[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
a burger is a burger is a burger… McD’s, BK, home… its beef its bread… i just had 2 doubles from BK and enjoyed the shit out of them…[/quote]
I take it you’ve never worked at mcondalds or bk. [/quote]
I’ve worked as a cook in a well respected restaurant in a wealthy town for 5 years. And I’ve worked for Taco Bell. The rules for handling the food and expiring were better enforced at taco bell. [/quote]
You bastard…
Don’t tell me these things. ;)[/quote]
I wouldn’t eat at taco bell anways. That shit goes right through you…
I think one of the main things here, is if you have a hard time gaining weight, and you go into a bulk with a FEAR of getting fat, you already failed. You are either not going to eat enough, or you are going to overwork in the gym and do cardio to prevent fat gain, but you’ll just be slowing your muscle gain.
I myself have had trouble gaining weight. I wasn’t naturally that lean, more skinny fat to begin with. Everyone suggested you get down to around 10% BF before bulking, and then not go above 12-15%. This was complete bullshit. I would have had to cut down to 150lbs to get down to 10% fat.
Now, I probably could build muscle eating clean. But part of it is that im lazy, and another part is that I just am not hungry enough and get full for far too long on “clean” foods. So I found what WORKED FOR ME, and I imagine others that were similar to me would need to do something similar. My last bulk was actually “cleaner” with 2-3 PB&J bagel sandwhiches a day (natural omega-3 pb) and a lot less “junk” Right now, I can hardly even stand the taste of peanut butter. Its just too soon. Maybe my next bulk i’ll be ready for it again.
Another thing that I think is important for all of you that are SCARED of getting fat is this: Buy some bigger clothes. Go to the store and buy some shirts and pants that are a size or two too big for you. I know from experience, that if you dont do this, you’ll be in the gym one day, or walk by a mirror and see that your shirt is fitting a bit tight in the stomach and suddenly your bulk is over and your back on the v-diet… So ditch the baby tees upgrade a size or two and eat and train until those bigger clothes become tight.