Anything Off Limits w/ All Out Bulk?

Training Bodybuilding
141

I felt like a hooker the first time I tried the “see food diet”…yes, I even ate food with saturated fat in it [gasp]

I’m going to have a heart attack soon…not because of the “unclean food” I eat…but because of trying to convince the woman in my life that certain foods aren’t bad for you LOL.

I’ve even had all the checks done (cholesterol etc)…but that won’t convince them.

Try asking the average fat woman you meet in a shop whether eggs are bad for you? Whether full cream milk is bad for you? Whether nuts are bad for you? Whether beef with all the attatched fat is bad for you? etc

Yes they are, because my latest weight watchers magazine said so…

142

I don’t know why anyone would label saturated fat as “dirty” or unhealthy considering that there are health benefits to eating this fat too, especially stearic acid, the fatty acid found in beef. Most dietitians and nutritionists, Berardi and Lowery included, recommend that 1/3 of fat intake should be from saturated fat and cholesterol and the other 2/3 from mono- and polyunsaturated. Granted, people don’t have to go through the trouble of figuring this shit out to the exact number. A good thing to do is just vary your fat sources and be sure to consume some cheese, whole eggs, and stringy red meat or pork here and there.

Come to think of it, I don’t know how the word dirty can apply to fat intake because some of the most effective weight loss diets are high in fat (eg, ketogenic diets). Actually, a ketogenic diet can be up to 70% fat. Low-fat diets suck all around, unless you’re one of the FEW individuals set up to do well on a high-carb diet (eg, Dorian Yates).

143

I don’t know why anyone would label saturated fat as “dirty” or unhealthy considering that there are health benefits to eating this fat too, especially stearic acid, the fatty acid found in beef. Most dietitians and nutritionists, Berardi and Lowery included, recommend that 1/3 of fat intake should be from saturated fat and cholesterol and the other 2/3 from mono- and polyunsaturated. Granted, people don’t have to go through the trouble of figuring this shit out to the exact number. A good thing to do is just vary your fat sources and be sure to consume some cheese, whole eggs, and stringy red meat or pork here and there.

Come to think of it, I don’t know how the word dirty can apply to fat intake because some of the most effective weight loss diets are high in fat (eg, ketogenic diets). Actually, a ketogenic diet can be up to 70% fat. Low-fat diets suck all around, unless you’re one of the FEW individuals set up to do well on a high-carb diet (eg, Dorian Yates).

144

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I don’t know why anyone would label saturated fat as “dirty” or unhealthy considering that there are health benefits to eating this fat too, especially stearic acid, the fatty acid found in beef. Most dietitians and nutritionists, Berardi and Lowery included, recommend that 1/3 of fat intake should be from saturated fat and cholesterol and the other 2/3 from mono- and polyunsaturated. Granted, people don’t have to go through the trouble of figuring this shit out to the exact number. A good thing to do is just vary your fat sources and be sure to consume some cheese, whole eggs, and stringy red meat or pork here and there. [/quote]

There are quite a few people on this forum that can’t (or refuse) to make the distinction between different types of fat. Why bother when they hate fat… period. They are fundamentally fattist, with the emphasis on “mentally”. Holy shitburger-in-a-box, some have brains that are so phobia-ridden that you may just persuade them to eat stringy red meat at gunpoint. But if you ask them to eat pork and cheese, then you should just pull the trigger there and then, because they’ll believe that they’re gonna die anyway as a result. You may as well just feed them cyanide pills. That’s how much you have to dumb things down sometimes, and that’s how paranoid people get over food.

I’m not saying people are generally stupid, but they’ll believe what they want to believe, and any outside influences will usually show up in their posts. They will turn up here with preconceptions in tow, ask you questions, and hurl abuse if they don’t like what you say (that is, if your views don’t mesh with what they’ve already heard).

[quote]
Come to think of it, I don’t know how the word dirty can apply to fat intake because some of the most effective weight loss diets are high in fat (eg, ketogenic diets). Actually, a ketogenic diet can be up to 70% fat. Low-fat diets suck all around, unless you’re one of the FEW individuals set up to do well on a high-carb diet (eg, Dorian Yates).[/quote]

I agree. This is a huge part of the problem. Yet, some people still cling to the idea that low fat is good…

145

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
There have been times in my life where I ate four slices of pizza in a sitting and 1,000 calorie breakfasts!
[/quote]

Ya fekkin’ lightweight…

146

I think brinknyce and roybot brought up an interesting side topic…

What is a “dirty food”?

AND

What are “clean foods”?

Im sure individual views on these two categories will affect what is in a bulk.

While im not sure if there is a correct answer to the above questions, I have some opinions based on how I view foods.

“Dirty foods”

*Foods with very little “nutritional value” : Sure all foods have macronutrients, but many dont have any sort of vinamins or minerals, etc. Exs would be white rice vs something like quinoa or fruit juice vs. real fruit.

*Foods that have excessive “bad” things. This is a bit debatable, but stuff like trans fats, preservatives, sodium, etc. Ex: Beef jerky vs. a steak

“clean foods”

Its pretty much opposite.

*Foods with high nutritional values
*Foods that are “natural” and dont have any “bad” things.

The only other things I really watch out for, would be things like added sugar and HFCS.

And when it comes to bulking, the two primary reasons to go “dirty” for me are:

*increased calorie density and less filling. Try eating 4000cals of oatmeal, brown rice and chicken and brocolli.

*Convience, cost, and taste… Eating raw brocolli and fish oil tabs on your break may be appetising to some of you guys, but I prefer a banana a protein shake and a snickers bar. Also, as far as cost and taste. I’ll often go with a chocolate milk vs. a protein shake, and a candy bar vs a protein bar. THERE REALLY ISN"T THAT BIG OF A DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT.

Other than that, I think you have to decide what is important to you. Gaining a significant amount of weight might not be the most healthy thing in the world, but if its what you want then you gotta get it done. And also maybe be careful with some of the habits you develop in eating “dirty”.

I dunno, what do you guys consider "dirty and “clean”

147

I don’t see how consuming a clean 4,000 to 5,000 calories is hard. I eat near 4,000 now and it’s all clean. If you make the diet 30% fat, it’s not hard at all. It’s actually a joke.

To me, “dirty” refers to foods have that have 1 or more dominant ingredients that are shit (eg, white flour, trans fats, sugar). Sure, there’s nothing wrong with some pizza or fast food here and there, but I don’t consider them clean because some items contain white flour, sugar, and trans fat. So here’s a little list.

Ice cream
Pastries, cakes, cookies
Candies
Soda
French fries
Onion rings
White bread
Most bagged snacks like white pretzels and potato chips (I think baked potato chips and multi-grain pretzels are “OK”; I eat them here and there, especially this one put out by Utz, multi-grain thick pretzels; they have 8 grains in them (sesame, flax, millet, corn, rye, flaxseed, wheat, oats)

If someone has to consume these dirty foods to get 6,000+ calories a day, then so be it! Dirty doesn’t mean bad all the time (TO ME!)!

In what situation do I equate dirty with “bad”? Newbies with little muscle mass, little experience, and little to no nutrition education!

  1. They don’t need so many damn calories to grow.
  2. They don’t know their bodies well enough to know when they NEED a “dirty” meal or in what amounts and frequency to consume them; they turn the whole damn diet into an all-out binge, like we’ve been seeing here, all while weighing a buck-50 to 2 bills!
  3. MOST men look like shit when they overeat and find it hard to lose large amounts of fat while maintaining muscle mass.

Now, some people, probably including Doc X, will disagree with me on the last one, but it’s what I’ve seen, and what I believe. As I said before, there are some people, myself included, that don’t look terrible at 18 to 20%. But most look sloppy and soft. When I got a bit too bulky/chubby in the past, I used to say to some people in casual conversation, usually at table having a meal, “I gotta cut down a bit; I’m getting a bit too chubby for my liking,” they’d respond, “What are you talking about. You’re not fat; you’re just jacked/big/diesel!”, with the reason being that I never looked sloppy, aside from some small love handles. Never had “moobs”, never got some hanging gut or saggy lats.

I don’t discredit the hard, HARD work of Professor X and Waylander, but to me they are definitely above average in the genetics department and can get away with super-calorie intakes because, they too, don’t get fat or sloppy while getting and being fucking huge! Having a formal background in the life sciences and being an RD, I’ve never come across any literature that shows that some people process nutrients anabolically (for muscle), but it’s what I believe from years of observation and experience. Others go from skinny to skinny-fat when they go on ultra-calorie diets. I do take into account that this also might be because many of them don’t even know how to or CAN’T train properly, secondary to the type of incoherence we see running rampant on this forum or they’re just not cut out for it.

148

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
There have been times in my life where I ate four slices of pizza in a sitting and 1,000 calorie breakfasts!
[/quote]

Ya fekkin’ lightweight…[/quote]

Nice, dude! :slight_smile:

149

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I don’t know why anyone would label saturated fat as “dirty” or unhealthy considering that there are health benefits to eating this fat too, especially stearic acid, the fatty acid found in beef. Most dietitians and nutritionists, Berardi and Lowery included, recommend that 1/3 of fat intake should be from saturated fat and cholesterol and the other 2/3 from mono- and polyunsaturated. Granted, people don’t have to go through the trouble of figuring this shit out to the exact number. A good thing to do is just vary your fat sources and be sure to consume some cheese, whole eggs, and stringy red meat or pork here and there. [/quote]

There are quite a few people on this forum that can’t (or refuse) to make the distinction between different types of fat. Why bother when they hate fat… period. They are fundamentally fattist, with the emphasis on “mentally”. Holy shitburger-in-a-box, some have brains that are so phobia-ridden that you may just persuade them to eat stringy red meat at gunpoint. But if you ask them to eat pork and cheese, then you should just pull the trigger there and then, because they’ll believe that they’re gonna die anyway as a result. You may as well just feed them cyanide pills. That’s how much you have to dumb things down sometimes, and that’s how paranoid people get over food.

I’m not saying people are generally stupid, but they’ll believe what they want to believe, and any outside influences will usually show up in their posts. They will turn up here with preconceptions in tow, ask you questions, and hurl abuse if they don’t like what you say (that is, if your views don’t mesh with what they’ve already heard).

Excellent post!

These are the same god-damn type of behaviors and beliefs and problems that we covered at length in a few very cool classes I took in school: Nutrition Communications; Trends, Challenges & Issues in Nutrition; and Nutrition Counseling.

In order for you to penetrate and put an end to the trance people fall into and given to them by the media, you might as well have to use verbal abuse and violence! Unfortunately, I couldn’t express this idea in classes, but it’s true!

Even in casual conversation on nutrition, I sometimes have to get nasty with friends and acquaintances! In discussing their beliefs on nutrition and health and lifting, they’ll say, in rebuttal to what I’m trying to get through their heads, “I never heard o’ dat. Dat can’t be; no one eva told me dat. Ma friend, who’s a trainer and ‘nutritionalist’, told da opposite: dat I should be goin’ fa da tone wit high reps and 1,200 kcals to lose!” Then I’ll have to reply with something like, “Well, I’m fucking tell you how it is now! How’s that for a bright spot?!”

150

my friend just asked me to come on these boards looks like a nice site give me ur specs what ur taking diet and supps its obtainable but u better have ur ducks in a row

151

I apoligize after reading this post i guess theres much to learn from all use the search engine b4 posting it will save u alot of looking very good post brick nyce from the begginging

152

[quote]Mad_Max21 wrote:
I apoligize after reading this post i guess theres much to learn from all use the search engine b4 posting it will save u alot of looking very good post brick nyce from the begginging[/quote]

Thanks dude! Nice to “meet” you. :slight_smile:

Welcome to our forum.

Dude, you gotta use some periods in between sentences. :slight_smile:

153

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Mad_Max21 wrote:
I apoligize after reading this post i guess theres much to learn from all use the search engine b4 posting it will save u alot of looking very good post brick nyce from the begginging[/quote]

Dude, you gotta use some periods in between sentences. :)[/quote]

x2

b4 posting I’d get out o habit o usin txt language2cas I fot it wz ma 15 year old female cusin txtn me…LOL just kiddin!

154

So it’s been established that eating dirty means eating “processed” crap. If man’s tampered with it, it’s dirty.

The end

155

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
So it’s been established that eating dirty means eating “processed” crap. If man’s tampered with it, it’s dirty.

The end[/quote]

Your whey protein is “processed” and what the fuck is wrong with a hamburger when you are training hard (really hard, not like the people on this site seem to be) and have a fast metabolism?

How about we stop trying to define what is clean and what is dirty because these definitions don’t mean shit.

You should be eating in whatever way provides the best results.

One thing we know for sure as that most beginners and even most intermediates don’t understand their own bodies well enough to be making drastic conclusions about what they can and can’t eat.

Things like this are why we have people claiming 12+ years of training on this site but they look like they’ve never lifted a weight.

The focus should be more on PROGRESS, not whether you get an award for eating “cleaner” than everyone else.

156

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
So it’s been established that eating dirty means eating “processed” crap. If man’s tampered with it, it’s dirty.

The end[/quote]

“TheMightyStu”, a regular contributor to these boards, an invitee to the recent exclusive Biotest “training summit” (for lack of a better description) and a recent 1st place bodybuilder, is well known for post workout Poptarts. He’s not the biggest guy around here, but he knows how to train, knows his body, and knows a little bit about dieting.

Obviously, he doens’t live off the damn things, but he’s found an enjoyable treat that is both rewarding to him and helps him achieve his goals. NO ONE IS ADVOCATING MAKING “JUNK FOOD” (whatever that means to you) A MAJORITY OF THEIR BULKING DIETS.

However, if someone has figured out that they need XYZ calories/protein and can’t get those numbers from chicken, rice, and protein shakes, then “supplemental foods”, in whatever form is right for that person will have to suffice.

It ain’t junk if it’s helping you achieve your long term goals. “Dirty” has its place.

Pardon for kicking the dead horse, but everyone has to figure out what works for them.

157

its been a little over a week since i started consuming more calories… up a little over 2lbs and my first 2 workouts this week have been able to hit a couple PR’s

incline - after many ramping warm-up sets 225x5, then 225x4- no spotter (last time needed help on 4th rep)
back squat - 295x5 below paralell(after doing several weeks of front squats the form felt great)

i feel like i’m getting a pretty bad wrap in this thread but so be it… things i were curious about were- are you guys slamming swiss cake rolls on days your having a hard time getting the calories in or things of that nature… but again it seems you do what you have to do if your in a crunch or having to maintain some of you guys 300lb figures…

when i think back to the months i actually put on weight some of my post workout meals where a shake and then followed in about 15min by a healthy choice french bread pizza and a nutty buddy with milk… hmmmmm

158

This thread is just getting started.

159

i took several pics last night so i have something to judge differences in over the next few months… like i said i’ll probably end up posting some before and after pics just for fun…

160

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
This thread is just getting started.[/quote]

I know, only 150 posts pshhh!

Im off to a decent start on the “dirty” eating today.

So far:

2 pieces of cinnamon toast with loads of butter
Glass of whole milk

Cheese bagel sandwhich with egg, chesse and bacon
Chocolate milk

And much more to come.

Ive got 2 weeks to gain 4-6 lbs,