Would this routine work for size as a semi-beginner (4 months of training, learnt correct form on all exercises)? Working out 3 days a week, alternating A and B workouts with 1 day rest in between, weekends off (or if I missed a workout I could do it then).
Progression rate: +5lbs every week on upper body lifts, +10lbs on lower body lifts.
A.
Bench press
Deadlift
Pendlay row
BB curl
B.
Squat
OHP
Chin-ups (weighted)
Dips (weighted)
I know 3x5 is a proven rep scheme (Mark Rippetoe/starting strength/etcā¦) to add strength and size, Iām just a bit skeptical about it as the consensus seems to be 8-12 reps for hypertrophy. Although I can see how strength improves much faster on a 3x5 routine which will overload the muscles and force them to grow a lot more than for example a 3x10 routine. But on the other side of the spectrum you have the need for āvolumeā and ātime under tensionā to make muscles grow, which isnāt that high in a 3x5 routine. Can anyone share his experience with a program like this?
PS: I know I posted another routine on this forum a few days ago, Iām just curious about which routine I should pick. Thereās an overflow of information on the internet, even T-nation articles contradict themselves, depending on the writer. I know I should find out myself āwhat works best for meā, but Iād like to have a good starting point!
Itāll work better if you squat in every workout.
Itāll work best if you just follow Rippetoeās program without changing things around for no reason.
Starting Strength is proven to add many lbs of muscle to beginner trainees in short periods of time. I followed stronglifts and went from 175-200 in 8 months.
The squat is the best mass builder of any single lift. It develops the entire leg as well as the back and torso. Look at any lifter who can squat worth a damn and they have a thick, solid, muscular midsection like a tree trunk.
Rippetoe has made a living out of taking beginners and adding strength and size to their frame. You are saying his calorie benchmark is ridiculous based on what? You have to eat big to get big. Donāt you weigh like 140 lbs? Get eating kidā¦
I would say the majority of that 25 lbs was muscle. I donāt measure my body fat percentage, but have been successful at both gaining large amounts of weight and cutting down to vascular abdominals. Trust me, gaining muscle is MUCH HARDER than losing fat.
Isnāt squatting 3x a week overkill? Or does it get manageable after a few weeks? And yes, but Iāve never seen someone who solely squatsā¦ Al least they bench/deadlift too, isnāt that where the upper body mass mostly comes from?
Well, calories in vs out. If maintenance is at 2.5k, 3.5-4k is most likely going to get you fat in no time.
Yes, cutting isnāt the problem either for me since my stomach surgeryā¦ And yes Iām 143 lbs lol. But as I explained earlier, forcing 4K calories a day down my throat isnāt an option for me.
Of course you will bench and deadlift also ā¦ Squatting 3x a week becomes overkill eventually when you are handling heavier weight. That is when you deload and then eventually move on to a more intermediate program. There is protocol for this in Rippetoeās program.
Also you donāt HAVE to eat 4,000 calories, you just have to eat enough to gain and recover from each workout. That number wonāt be the same for everyone
Now that Iām looking into it, the original fierce 5 novice program (which I was running) actually has squats in there aswel 3 times a week, alternating back/front squat. But I replaced the front squats and SLDL with regular deadlifts and hamstring curls, which is an alternative the autor gave himself. His reasoning is that as long as youāre doing deadlifts OR squats in your workout, one will carry-over to the other. Therefore thereās no longer the need to squat in every workout.
One final question: isnāt some form of chin/pull-ups (and maybe dips) necessary in a workout routine like that? Both SS and SL seem to be lacking those.
The original stronglifts or madcow DID have pullups and dips in the program I believe, they were scrapped for whatever reason. Some people do use them still.
Its a basic guide line no more and no lessā¦ many a strong and large lifter has been created by various range of reps over the years
.You will discover in time that this whole pursuit is 45% science 45% an art form and 10% just blind luck.
As already stated at a beginning stage ā¦NOPE. At your level I would say you would actually put more stress on your body by going out and jogging 30 minutes 3 times a week.
Any reason you want to only use one rep scheme versus a variety of rep ranges?
And the whole āsquatting 3x a week is overkillā thing is a VERY recent development. 20 rep squats was around like 80 years ago, and it had you squatting 3x a week, and everyone seemed just fine. Iām not saying itās necessary, but I think most beginners are at a severe risk of undertraining versus overtraining.
No not really, just to keep it simple I guess. Progression on a 3x5 program is easy to measure. āComplete x sets of x reps, add weight next time/next week, repeat.ā Thatās how I got my lifts back up to a ānormalā level after my surgery.
Also I gained 7kg on a program like that, but thatās just because I was able to eat a normal amount of calories again, now my weight gain has stagnated although Iām eating more. Changed up my program to a split routine (still hitting every muscle group twice a week) with higher reps (6-12). Maybe full body, only focussing on the compounds with - relatively - heavy weights works better for me? Less metabolic stress so less caloric expenditure? Just guessing here.
That article is a real eye opener for meā¦ Especially the programmed active recovery days and the reasoning behind it. Iāve been going to the gym 3-4 days a week, working with the same intensity every time. After 2 weeks I always feel sluggish and tired all the time and feel the need to take 3-4 days off.
Well, size is my main focus as I am a small guy (always have been), but Iāve come to love lifting heavy sh*t. Also I notice that most guys that lift heavy in my gym are big and athletic but not huge. But they have a nicer physique than the bodybuilders in their tank tops mirinā themselves in the mirror every time they can. Their muscle looks denser and seeing a guy lift 315 on bench or a 5 plate squat for reps is kind of impressive to me.
Iām not looking to become a 200lbs BB, gaining 20lbs (which would put me at 165) sitting at ~10% bf year round and being relatively strong for that weight would be my initial goal.
if you stay lean, gaining 20lbs will make you look awesome so good luck!
As for your program - if you want to do SS then just do it as written, get what you can out of it then move on to a more bodybuilding-type routine. No sense in fucking around with it; just use it for its intended purpose and move on.
If your looking for one with a bit more variety search " solutions for the skinny fat ectomorph"
Beginner Program
Monday
A1) Back Squat 4Ć6-8
A2) Chin-Ups (25)
B1) Romanian Deadlift 2Ć8-12
B2) Incline Press 3Ć8
c1) Pushups 2 x max
C2) Thick Grip Barbell Curls 2Ć15
ā Sprints
Wednesday
A1) Overhead Press 3Ć6-8
A2) Barbell Rows 3Ć8
B) Hip Thrust 2Ć10
C) Calfs 2Ć20
āFarmers Walks
Friday
A1) Deadlift 3Ć5
A2) Incline Press 3Ć8
B1) Front Squat 3Ć5
B2) Chin-Ups (25)
C1) Dips 2 x max
C2) Thick Grip Hammer Curls 2Ć10
āSprints
Program Notes
For all exercises do at least five sets, including warm-up sets. So a squat workout planned for 3x6x135 will look like this: bar x 6, 95Ć6, 135x4x6.
Strive for 25 chin-ups in as little sets as possible. At first, shoot for five. Then four. Three is ideal. Two is great.
The 1ās and 2ās mean the exercises can be supersetted to save time.
Do two sets to failure of dips and push-ups. Strive to add one rep to the total each week.
Sprints are preferably done on a hill of about 50 yards, with 6-10 total repetitions. Sprint to the top, walk back down, catch your wind, and then go again. Do that a minimum of six times and a maximum of ten times.
Farmers walks are done for 100-200 yards. Just grab heavy dumbbells and go.
Keeping the program how it is would be best to test out a few weeks. Changing it around can either be a waste of your time, or throw you in some other direction in terms of what results you expect.
For beginners, the 5x5 stronglifts would be a great place to start OR a full body routineā¦ Plenty of gains to be made and can build up a great foundation for intermediate splits.
Heavy lifting with reps between 3-5 are for strength, rep range between 8-15 are for hypertrophy, and anything above would just be a form of endurance.
Hypertrophy training is so popular because it balances size gains with strength gains over time. It all depends on your goalā¦ Donāt forget nutrition plays a key role to achieving anything in the gym.
I would say youāre still within that strength range, but that depends on how heavy youāre going alsoā¦
I would say for strength, low reps you should lift between 85-95% of your 1RM. Thatād be ideal and rest anywhere between 2-5 minutes so that each set you are giving 100% to those earned reps!