[quote]LoRez wrote:
What are you expecting from them?[/quote]
[I make lots of real, measurable progress, but…] everyone said I made little progress looking at pics even though I add an 1-1.5" on to various bodyparts;
[/quote]
So, you want people to tell you that you made progress? That’s your goal?[/quote]
No but if nobody notices the progress then it must not work very well-especially when the programs used to be 6-20 weeks long/switching every 6 weeks[/quote]
I’m not sure what to tell you. If you’re lifting more and getting bigger, then you’re making progress. Even if nobody notices.
And if the program you’re on helps you make progress week after week, month after month, then you’re doing a good program.
So I don’t know what to tell you. I can’t make people “notice” your progress. Sorry.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
What are you expecting from them?[/quote]
[I make lots of real, measurable progress, but…] everyone said I made little progress looking at pics even though I add an 1-1.5" on to various bodyparts;
[/quote]
So, you want people to tell you that you made progress? That’s your goal?[/quote]
No but if nobody notices the progress then it must not work very well-especially when the programs used to be 6-20 weeks long/switching every 6 weeks[/quote]
I’m not sure what to tell you. If you’re lifting more and getting bigger, then you’re making progress. Even if nobody notices.
And if the program you’re on helps you make progress week after week, month after month, then you’re doing a good program.
So I don’t know what to tell you. I can’t make people “notice” your progress. Sorry.[/quote]
Well I was doing 6-12 reps by 4x5 sets; if my lifts went up by 2 reps a session i’d prob only move up one weight increment for the 6 weeks-strength wise that’s lame. As I said people didn’t notice when I added 0.5-1.5" onto bodyparts after 6-20 weeks and added around 2lbs a week
I was also told (most importantly) that working out and adding muscle helps you take pain in fighting-as I stated earlier-doing 4-5 sets of 6-12 didn’t work for me too well (I added 0.5-1.5" to bodyparts over 20 weeks, added around 1-2lbs a week to weight and 2 reps to my lifts [although that’d only mean an increase of 1 weight every six weeks]) but doing sets of 5 did
i’m not too sure how it works but some reports say adding muscle will help take pain-apparently it’ll help me get over getting hit in the nose or ribs sparring (I never did).
In Wrestling we either did 2-5 minutes of wrestling or (in that time) do 2-5 minutes of exercise-normally X number of push ups (a lot of the time I was told to do 50 push and get back into wrestling OR do 100 in the time stated). At the end of the workout we were told to do 5-10 sets of 10-5 chins (as long as we did 50). Not all the time but we also did squats with partner. Our coach didn’t believe in dumbbell/barbell training-bodyweight and plates only (I don’t dispute his methods since he’s been in the Romanian Olympic Freestyle Team and went to Sydney 2000 and he also says strength training helps)
Anyway, I found limited information on strength training helping pain resistance-especially external blunt force trauma but i’ll give it a shot and if worst comes to worse I can learn to dish it out
[quote]ronki23 wrote:
I’m not too sure how it works but some reports say adding muscle will help take pain-apparently it’ll help me get over getting hit in the nose or ribs sparring (I never did).
Anyway, I found limited information on strength training helping pain resistance-especially external blunt force trauma but I’ll give it a shot and if worst comes to worse I can learn to dish it out
[/quote]
So your main goals are to get people to notice you lift and increase pain tolerance?
I really don’t know what to tell you on the pain tolerance one. The study you attached is not about building pain tolerance over time as you add muscle. That sounds like pure bro-science to me. In my opinion people are born with different pain tolerances. The perception of what is causing your body “pain” can also change over time.
If you practice kickboxing for a couple years and routinely get kicked in the shins, the shin bones become thicker and you learn to perceive that feeling as a normal part of your practice. In this way maybe lifting will teach you to perceive muscle pain as part of your practice, and that could make you tougher in the long run, but to say all well muscled people have a high pain tolerance is silly. Correlation does not equal causation.
[quote]ronki23 wrote:
www.cebp.nl/vault_public/filesystem/?ID=2926[/quote]
Also, this study took place over twelve months but compared sedentary(control group) to strength and endurance groups. Both strength and endurance groups showed comparable results of higher pain tolerance.
The take home here is that training can lower the perception of pain not that adding muscle to a giving area does. The study was ran on the upper shoulder/neck region of 180 women. You can conclude from that info that the women didn’t see notable hypertrophy giving the training methods they used.
You sound like you’d rather talk about stuff than do it. That you’d rather debate a point, than try it out yourself and see if it works.
I’m not sure you really want results. So far, everyone seems to be trying to help you get results, but maybe we misinterpreted your intention. It’s as if you’re more concerned about maintaining your ego than getting results. I mean that by the Freudian definition, not the pop-culture definition.
Don’t get me wrong, because I don’t mean this offensively, but maybe you’d be better served spending time with a therapist than asking for advice (and debating it) on here.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
You sound like you’d rather talk about stuff than do it. That you’d rather debate a point, than try it out yourself and see if it works.
I’m not sure you really want results. So far, everyone seems to be trying to help you get results, but maybe we misinterpreted your intention. It’s as if you’re more concerned about maintaining your ego than getting results. I mean that by the Freudian definition, not the pop-culture definition.
Don’t get me wrong, because I don’t mean this offensively, but maybe you’d be better served spending time with a therapist than asking for advice (and debating it) on here.[/quote]
I’m just looking at the different workouts-plan B onward if you wish.
Starting Strength works for me so i’m not going to stop doing it but it’s nice to know the alternatives
Wendler: Triumvirate
Wendler: Bodyweight
Madcow
Stronglifts
Reg Park 5x5
On a cut the All Pro workout seems tempting-as does the Hypertrophy Specific Routine.
But i’m having trouble on the press and squat. On the press (37.5kg) I only managed 3 reps for 2 sets so I did 3 more sets of 1-2 reps. The next workout my press only went up by 1 rep per set so i’m going to have to reset by 5kg.
My bench was 52.5kg for 4 reps over 3 sets workout before last, I moved up to 55kg the next workout and it was only 2 reps so I did 5 sets of 2. If the next workout doesn’t get me 12 reps over 3 sets i’m going to have to reset that too.
My squat is 67.5kg-up from 65kg with belt (5RM two workouts ago) but it takes me 4 sets to get 12 reps (not getting more than 4 reps). So i’ve reset to 62.5kg without the belt since i’m not happy with the depth.
Deadlift at 65kg for 5-doing 67.5kg tomorrow.
Rippetoes and Kethnaab say only move on from Rippetoes after 2 resets on Squat and 1 on Deadlift. The thing is my personal best last year was 85kg on Squats,87.5 on Deadlift,55kg on Bench,40kg on Overhead Press
^ I shouldn’t count this as a stall should I? I don’t do weights when i’m at Uni as the free time I have goes to martial arts training- my 15 weeks summer holiday goes into weights.
P.S. Can someone show me the Madcow and Juggernaut programs and ‘how to’ start off-i’m not finding any proper information online-especially when Madcow says 3-5 sets of 5 but on the same since it also says 1*10??
This isn’t the time to be program hopping. The problem isn’t the program. You’re nowhere near the weights where you should be stalling with any program.
If you’ve progressively worked up, the problem may be your diet and your rest. How often are you training? What/when are you eating? How do you spend your time when you’re not training… are you active?
But to be honest, I don’t think you’re training hard enough. Do you have training partner to help push you past these limits? Are you sweating at the end of your workouts? You should be.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
This isn’t the time to be program hopping. The problem isn’t the program. You’re nowhere near the weights where you should be stalling with any program.
If you’ve progressively worked up, the problem may be your diet and your rest. How often are you training? What/when are you eating? How do you spend your time when you’re not training… are you active?
But to be honest, I don’t think you’re training hard enough. Do you have training partner to help push you past these limits? Are you sweating at the end of your workouts? You should be.[/quote]
Firstly, i’m not going to change the program-I want a link to Juggernaut/Madcow.
My strength is going up but this week (week 6) i’m stalling-I don’t intend to stall especially since my lower body is not as strong as it once was, I need to know if you count this as a stall.
No training partner-and yes i’m training hard enough.
If you’re running into issues with progressing with these weights as beginner (based on weight used, not training experience), it can be because of an injury, inadequate rest/recovery, inadequate nutrition, or inadequate training intensity. There’s not much else it could be.
I’m not sure where I read it; it could have been Starting Strength, Practical Programming, StrongLifts… but before deloading, use the same set-rep scheme and keep trying until you hit them all. If you’re doing 5x5, and you only managed 5, 5, 4, 4, 3; just keep doing it until you get 5x5. It may take a couple weeks to do it. Then, and only then, do you consider changing the weight.
Of course, you may have already done that. If so, then it likely has to do with diet and recovery.
(Also, I don’t have a link to Madcow or Juggernaut)
I started 5/3/1 a couple of weeks ago, moving from SL5x5 - loving it so far. The OCD part of me loves it too, as I get to play around with numbers, percentages and spreadsheets
Pain tolerance is mostly mental. I learned this in trhe army cadets at age 14. We were doing the para regiment ‘pcoy’ annual march and shoot version for cadets, a ten mile run or something like that carrying huge bloody logs. Some of us were lagging and our sgt major told us it was all in out minds. Mind over matter, she said, tell yourself you don’t feel any pain or tiredness and when that runs out and if you do - then you tell yourself it doesn’t matter and you keep on going. It’s bloddy strong stuff and works. I can now run up and down mountains and have like ‘10th winds.’ I can litterally run until my bones start crunching…
Pain tolerance in fighting comes from repeatedly being exposed to pain from fighting, not doing weights, sorry. This is why Muay thai fighters destroy the nerves in their shins by hitting them with sticks and rolling rolling pins over them and hapkidoin, have others repeatedly strike their forearms etc.
Of all the programs I have ever tried the one that worked most for strenght was a simple 5x5 push / pull / legs split like this -
In 3 months Had me a skinny bastart only 172cm tall and 73kg, lifting 60 kg bench, 105kg deadlift, 90kg squat and 70 - 80 kg bent over rows. Now those are not AMAZING numbers, but not bad for a trainee’s frist ever time on an actual programme and in 3 months and no monkeying around with work sets, pyramids, drop sets or ramping etc, just sollid 5x5 each and every workout session.
That said for SIZE I found that 3 x 10 full body 3x a week worked best for me and is what I’m going to do now for at least 3 months and then maybe go back to a split but still 3 x 10.
It’s weird. On the 5x5 I felt like I was made of wood. Literally, carved out of sollid wood, even though I didn’t grow much and I had mad energy. On the 3 x 10 full body I didn’t have that ‘made of wood feeling’ more just puffed up but I looked better, and for me that is the main reason for doing weights and my cardio keeps me fit.
But yeah 5x5 should get you shifting weights you never thought you could. ONE thing I noticed that made a difference more than anything else was EATING A MASSIVE PORTION OF CARBS EXACTLY 1 HOUR BEFOREHAND, like a good plate of tuna and pasta with some sort of sauce. It seeemed to power me through the workout. And just before leaving the apartment I would down a dbl esspresso and psyche myself up with rock music and think to myself that 'I am going to ‘assault some iron today and assault it damned hard and lift more weight or do an extra few reps on my last set.’
Good luck finding a training routine to suit you. As a friend of mine whom is massive told me when I asked him his ‘I was skinny as hell when I left the army then I just went into gyms and started lifting really heavy shit, I don’t know what else to tell ya, as that is all there is to it.’ To be fair, he does zero cardio and eats junk so is also fat on the stomach, but he does have mad builds elsewhere…
