Anal Biochemical/Nutritional Q's

Nutrition
1

I’ve been wondering a bit about the following biochemical/nutritional questions (minutiae). Can anyone help out? (Berardi, Cy Willson, Dave Barr or other gurus perhaps?)

1.Since insulin activates the glut-4 receptor in muscle and adipose tissue, what makes it preferable to shuttle glucose into muscle rather than fat cells after exercise, also, what makes it preferable to move amino acids into muscle following exercise rather than other tissues?

2.If glucagon is active during a fast and stimulates gluconeogenesis (think V-diet) does extra protein completely spare muscle protein brakedown, or is the muscle protein broken down and consequently regenerated because of the positive nitrogen balance?

2

[quote]fjolnirg wrote:
I’ve been wondering a bit about the following biochemical/nutritional questions (minutiae). Can anyone help out? (Berardi, Cy Willson, Dave Barr or other gurus perhaps?)

1.Since insulin activates the glut-4 receptor in muscle and adipose tissue, what makes it preferable to shuttle glucose into muscle rather than fat cells after exercise, also, what makes it preferable to move amino acids into muscle following exercise rather than other tissues?

2.If glucagon is active during a fast and stimulates gluconeogenesis (think V-diet) does extra protein completely spare muscle protein brakedown, or is the muscle protein broken down and consequently regenerated because of the positive nitrogen balance?[/quote]

First off, bravo…GREAT freakin’ questions!!!

Answers to both: Homeostatic Response

  1. That said, GLU will actually contribute to adipose stores, post-exercise, IF consumption exceeds expenditure.

The reason muscle receives preferential treatment has to do w/ the tight regulation your nervous system has placed on their being a fixed and ready supply of available GLU. In other words, GLU will first refuel the nervous system (about 50% of all glucose you consume goes to functions w/in your brain), and then your muscles and liver stores are refueled secondary to the former. Anything in excess of expenditure and recovery needs is modified and stored in adipose tissue to add to the “buffer” capacity of energy reserves.

Remember, glucose derived from adipose stores requires the expenditure of energy. Thus, for your body to first refuel adipose stores would be energetically disadvantageous…that pretty much goes against all of biological evolution.

  1. If I’m reading your question correctly, and assuming you’re not talking about a prolonged fast (i.e. you’re simply talking about a short-term fast, and not prolonged starvation), then you’re exactly correct… assuming that protein intake exceeds catabolism so that net protein values remain positive.

The HPA (hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal) axis is awesome, isn’t it? When glucose stores fall below your body’s set-point, glucagon is released and triggers a catecholaminergic response, leading to the release of NE and especially EPI from the adrenals.

In doing so, insulin-mediated uptake of blood glucose is thwarted and insulin release is turned off so as to minimize glucose utilization. Your nervous system receiving preferential treatment. Gluconeogenesis and ketogenesis is activated until glucose stores are again brought back into its set-point. Hunger, however, may not subside due to the likely connection b/w maintaining both glucose and adipose stores…however, that’s another topic altogether.

hope that I’ve answered your questions…or, at least, not made an ass of myself :slight_smile: - c

3

Not anal questions at all. I wish more people would ask questions like this. Instead of questions like this: “Dude, my PW shake is totally making me feel ill! If my girlfriend holds my hand for moral support when I take them, do you think that would help?”

4

Yeah really, I wish more people asked questions like this. Unfortunately I have nothing to contribute. :slight_smile:

5

Well written, Lockwood :wink:

now let’s do a recap:
glucose enters the blood stream and the first place it would go would me the glycogen stores but only if they are not at 100%. Once the reach the 100% the rest ot the exess glycose that is still in the blood stream has only one choice - “go for fat” - or in other words - do be stored in the adipose tissue.

Here is where I don’t get it - you write about “storing glucose in the adipose tissue” and “the later utilization ot this glucose” but as far as I know - the adipose tissue ist a adipose tissiue because it consists of fat. Right? And actually glucose is not really stored there but the enrgy it carries is used for the production ot fatty acids. Please, tell me where am I wrong.

And how can actually glucose be derived from the adipose stores?

thanx

[quote]Lockwood wrote:
fjolnirg wrote:
I’ve been wondering a bit about the following biochemical/nutritional questions (minutiae). Can anyone help out? (Berardi, Cy Willson, Dave Barr or other gurus perhaps?)

1.Since insulin activates the glut-4 receptor in muscle and adipose tissue, what makes it preferable to shuttle glucose into muscle rather than fat cells after exercise, also, what makes it preferable to move amino acids into muscle following exercise rather than other tissues?

2.If glucagon is active during a fast and stimulates gluconeogenesis (think V-diet) does extra protein completely spare muscle protein brakedown, or is the muscle protein broken down and consequently regenerated because of the positive nitrogen balance?

First off, bravo…GREAT freakin’ questions!!!

Answers to both: Homeostatic Response

  1. That said, GLU will actually contribute to adipose stores, post-exercise, IF consumption exceeds expenditure.

The reason muscle receives preferential treatment has to do w/ the tight regulation your nervous system has placed on their being a fixed and ready supply of available GLU. In other words, GLU will first refuel the nervous system (about 50% of all glucose you consume goes to functions w/in your brain), and then your muscles and liver stores are refueled secondary to the former. Anything in excess of expenditure and recovery needs is modified and stored in adipose tissue to add to the “buffer” capacity of energy reserves.

Remember, glucose derived from adipose stores requires the expenditure of energy. Thus, for your body to first refuel adipose stores would be energetically disadvantageous…that pretty much goes against all of biological evolution.

  1. If I’m reading your question correctly, and assuming you’re not talking about a prolonged fast (i.e. you’re simply talking about a short-term fast, and not prolonged starvation), then you’re exactly correct… assuming that protein intake exceeds catabolism so that net protein values remain positive.

The HPA (hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal) axis is awesome, isn’t it? When glucose stores fall below your body’s set-point, glucagon is released and triggers a catecholaminergic response, leading to the release of NE and especially EPI from the adrenals.

In doing so, insulin-mediated uptake of blood glucose is thwarted and insulin release is turned off so as to minimize glucose utilization. Your nervous system receiving preferential treatment. Gluconeogenesis and ketogenesis is activated until glucose stores are again brought back into its set-point. Hunger, however, may not subside due to the likely connection b/w maintaining both glucose and adipose stores…however, that’s another topic altogether.

hope that I’ve answered your questions…or, at least, not made an ass of myself :slight_smile: - c

[/quote]

6

You’re (partially) right. Excess glucose will be turned into triglycerides and triglycerides can be broken down to glycerol and fatty acids. Glycerol can be converted to glucose but it isn’t a great percentage of the energy used (I think it’s because it’s an inefficient process).

The only way to maintain blood sugar levels is by converting liver glycogen to glucose, muscle glycogen cannot be used for this.

7

First,
thank you for your answer. And as far this is a topic for “Anal Biochemical/Nutritional Q’s” I think to go on on digging deeper :slight_smile:

So let’s follow the path - exess glucose ist stored as triglycerides in the adipose tissues. Let’s say later - these triglycerides are relesed in the bloodstrem for energy. First, the fatty acides detatch from the glycerine and are broken down to ketone bodies which are trasported to the hepatic cells where they are converted back to CoA and energy is produced. “In the same time” (of course not literary) glycerol is transformed into glycose which is ready for utilization (or for the adipose tissue :)))

notice anything that doesn’t coincide with science?

thanks

[quote]andrew_plamondon wrote:
You’re (partially) right. Excess glucose will be turned into triglycerides and triglycerides can be broken down to glycerol and fatty acids. Glycerol can be converted to glucose but it isn’t a great percentage of the energy used (I think it’s because it’s an inefficient process).

The only way to maintain blood sugar levels is by converting liver glycogen to glucose, muscle glycogen cannot be used for this.[/quote]

8

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
"Dude, my PW shake is totally making me feel ill! If my girlfriend holds my hand for moral support when I take them, do you think that would help?"[/quote]

That gave me a good chuckle.

9

[quote]Thai wrote:
First,
thank you for your answer. And as far this is a topic for “Anal Biochemical/Nutritional Q’s” I think to go on on digging deeper :slight_smile:

So let’s follow the path - exess glucose ist stored as triglycerides in the adipose tissues. Let’s say later - these triglycerides are relesed in the bloodstrem for energy. First, the fatty acides detatch from the glycerine and are broken down to ketone bodies which are trasported to the hepatic cells where they are converted back to CoA and energy is produced. “In the same time” (of course not literary) glycerol is transformed into glycose which is ready for utilization (or for the adipose tissue :)))

notice anything that doesn’t coincide with science?

thanks

[/quote]

I’m not that knowledgable about lipolysis but I’d say that if the body were using fat for fuel, the glycerol turned in glucose would be used by the brain as it is more efficient at using glucose and maybe the heart too.
Triglycerides are also going to be associated with an apolipoprotein to form a lipoprotein since fat doesn’t dissolve in water ; it’d float over it.

This website should answer your questions about fatty acids metabolism :
http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/fatty-acid-oxidation.html

10

Thanks guys, great answer Lockwood :wink:

This all helps in the building of my “master plan” chuckle

Actually that is not to far from the truth. I just started with a bang again after a layoff over the summer.

Training consists of feeder exercises in the morning (one set of isolation exercise per muscle group) with a little cardio followed by foam rolling and stretching. Then in the afternoon I train with 1 or 2 heavy main exercises and 2-3 accessory.

While I’m doing this I am trying to manipulate carbs (fx. today: cup of je before I got out along with a swig out of the ole’ fish oil bottle, 2 scoops Surge during the morning exercise 7:00-7:30, Metabolic Drive 2 scoops and a banana at 9:45, Tuna 2 eggs and broccoli at 11:40, train 12:30-13:30 with 2 scoops Surge, yoghurt 1/2 a liter along with a few slices watermelon at around 15:00, Metabolic Drive 2 scoops at around 18:00 and at 21:00 or 22:00 I’ll have a kidney bean salad with a bit of feta cheese and Iceberg.

That’s why I wanted to be sure about the carbs and the protein usage, I’m trying to time them early in the day as well as around training.

You guys have cleared things up a lot for me.

The current debate going on in my head is whether I should cut the calories even more and use some BCAA instead of shakes?

(training is intended to regain former strength and maintain it while I whittle the fat off, then I’ll start training for the next PL competition at either 181 or 198. Currently I’m around 215lbs.)

Thanks for the help :wink:

regards, Fj?lnir

11

If you want to cut the cals a little and money is not necessarily a problem, BCAAs and especially EAAs can be a good option. There were some studies showing that the only thing the body needs to build muscle is not all proteins but only essential amino acids.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T8P-3VM7CBW-2&_coverDate=02%2F28%2F1999&_alid=442191899&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=5092&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=7d6c7c021f2c4963ca174b47433580a4