I read this some time ago that, according to Mauri Di Pasquale and some other dude, eating carbs after weight training might be COUNTERPRODUCTIVE for muscle building. I find it strange no one has mentioned it, especially because a lot of people on this T-Nation like the Anabolic Diet. I think this is a big deal if he is right.
Personally I don’t think refilling glycogen stores is a bad thing when done like on AD, but maybe it is a good idea to only eat carbs BEFORE training and leave the post-workout carbs. Just thinkin’.
Is Mauro Di Pasquale a total wackjob for saying this or is there something to it?
Would be counterproductive how? Like carbs blunting the release of growth hormone?
I’d think you’d want a high insulin level right after training - that certainly always made sense to me. I mean, pretty much anything you eat will raise insulin levels, not just carbs, but the science behind protein transport and sparing through insulin response to glucose seems sound to me.
I see he’s selling a post workout supplement at the end of the article, so take that for what it’s worth.
He’s basically quoting a study showing that post exercise carbs can blunt insulin response, and that AA uptake and protein synthesis is increased over a longer period of time in the presence of low carbohydrates. Increased use of fatty acids as fuel is another benefit he’s touting here.
[i]"However, as liver and muscle glycogen levels get replenished, insulin sensitivity decreases, as does amino acid uptake, protein synthesis and the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel.
By increasing insulin levels and not providing carbs you shunt your body’s metabolism to the use of more fatty acids for energy while at the same time keeping muscle glycogen levels below saturation and amino acid influx and protein synthesis elevated for a prolonged period of time post exercise.
This increased capacity for glycogen synthesis, and everything that goes with it, can persist for several days if the muscle glycogen concentration is maintained below normal levels by carbohydrate restriction. By keeping carbs low and protein and energy high after training, you can increase protein synthesis over a prolonged period of time and get long term anabolic effect."[/i]
Maybe - but I’d have to take a good look at the study he’s talking about. I’ll check out the cited references when I get a chance.
A lot of people have mentioned it actually. It’s what the ANACONDA Protocols focus on, and what many people on the site recommend having your carbs preworkout.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Would be counterproductive how? Like carbs blunting the release of growth hormone?
I’d think you’d want a high insulin level right after training - that certainly always made sense to me. I mean, pretty much anything you eat will raise insulin levels, not just carbs, but the science behind protein transport and sparing through insulin response to glucose seems sound to me.
Do you have a link to an article where he talks about his theory? [/quote]
You could look for the words counterproductive and carbs on google. Pasquale wrote an article about it which I could not include.
A lot of people have mentioned it actually. It’s what the ANACONDA Protocols focus on, and what many people on the site recommend having your carbs preworkout.
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hmm, I never have seen it mentioned in the ANACONDA protocol. Time to take a better look…
A lot of people have mentioned it actually. It’s what the ANACONDA Protocols focus on, and what many people on the site recommend having your carbs preworkout.
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This
[quote]Fulldeplex wrote:
You could look for the words counterproductive and carbs on google. Pasquale wrote an article about it which I could not include.
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Yea, no prob. I found it.
Personally, it works for me - if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Lol…but there are some interesting ideas here. I don’t think De Pasquale is a wack job. He’s contributed a lot of good ideas in his career.
I don’t follow anything about ANACONDA, but there’s tons of logs and info on the protocol in that section of the forums.
Personally, it works for me - if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Lol… [/quote]
Says the guy driving a 84 buick to the guy trying to sell him a brand new Ferrari. Lol just kidding. I agree that if something works that it doesnt need to be changed. But I’m sold on the idea of preworkout carbs and limiting carbs immediately post workout. Been doing it for years. Years before I read the science presented behind the anaconda stuff.
Personally, it works for me - if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Lol… [/quote]
Says the guy driving a 84 buick to the guy trying to sell him a brand new Ferrari. Lol just kidding. I agree that if something works that it doesnt need to be changed. But I’m sold on the idea of preworkout carbs and limiting carbs immediately post workout. Been doing it for years. Years before I read the science presented behind the anaconda stuff. [/quote]
Yea - I’m never really completely polarized on any of this stuff unless it’s pure quackery, and like I said, there are definitely some worthwhile ideas here, and I don’t doubt they work.
Using fatty acids and proteins converted by gluconeogenesis for energy makes scientific sense too, in which case it can’t be discounted.
EDIT: And I certainly believe in prewkout carbs as well - just wanted to point that out.
I’ll agree with Bonez in that I’m completely sold on PreWO carbs, but will definitely point out that I made much of my gains over the years by focusing on the ‘magic anabolic window’ immediately after your workout in order to shovel in the carbs with a fast protein source. Of course if you’re ‘working out’ as hard as most of the people I see in the gym, I’m sure you don’t really have to worry about recovery so much anyway.
Im doing NHE right now. My body personally responds better to low carb before and after workouts. This is my first experience low carb though and I haven’t bulked with it yet. My first bulk starts in 5 days. Ill do 2 300 gram carbups a week and see how that goes. So far I like it.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ll agree with Bonez in that I’m completely sold on PreWO carbs, but will definitely point out that I made much of my gains over the years by focusing on the ‘magic anabolic window’ immediately after your workout in order to shovel in the carbs with a fast protein source. Of course if you’re ‘working out’ as hard as most of the people I see in the gym, I’m sure you don’t really have to worry about recovery so much anyway.
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Do you feel a difference IN your workout when you take PreWO carbs or does it benefit you in an other way?
I personally feel like crap when I eat a lot of PreWO carbs and my performance drops significantly. I do notice positive effects during my workout for a carb up from say, the evening before. Now I am experimenting with full fat milk just before training and this does not seem to bother me.
How much and what kind of PreWO carbs do you take?
My older thinking was that anything you ate preworkout would take a while to digest, and so your workout ‘fuel’ as it were would come from what you had ingested earlier in the day. SOmething with straight simple sugars (ie. a soda, or piece of candy) would produce a nice spike, but then you’d suffer the sugar crash (I remember an old BBing mag where a pro talked about how he couldn’t have sugar right before training or it just killed his session). Maybe it’s the particular source that is used in the SWF or the FINiBARs, but I can seriously down a large amount of carbs (120g!)) about 20 mins before training and I just power through some seriously intense sessions… and to be honest, when the FINiBARs first came out, my training partner Corey was using them, and going on and on about how great they were, but I figured it was marketing BS. Now I’ll sing the praises of Rice Oligodextrins to anyone who’ll listen -lol.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
My older thinking was that anything you ate preworkout would take a while to digest, and so your workout ‘fuel’ as it were would come from what you had ingested earlier in the day. SOmething with straight simple sugars (ie. a soda, or piece of candy) would produce a nice spike, but then you’d suffer the sugar crash (I remember an old BBing mag where a pro talked about how he couldn’t have sugar right before training or it just killed his session). Maybe it’s the particular source that is used in the SWF or the FINiBARs, but I can seriously down a large amount of carbs (120g!)) about 20 mins before training and I just power through some seriously intense sessions… and to be honest, when the FINiBARs first came out, my training partner Corey was using them, and going on and on about how great they were, but I figured it was marketing BS. Now I’ll sing the praises of Rice Oligodextrins to anyone who’ll listen -lol.
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I started eating my carbs pre workout because I made an assumption that the logic around post-workout nutrition wouldn’t apply to a 140lb woman like it would a man who was carrying a load of muscle and that with my much lesser needs, by the time I digested what was in my stomach I would be post workout anyhow.
I’m kind of glad I thought about it like that because I think it works well for me.
I still eat ice cream just before I work out and don’t crash. (I don’t care what anyone says, I’m not gonna stop :-P)
I only ever crash from sugars when I’m not doing anything, like if I get into some dessert after lunch and I’m sitting at my desk. If I go for a walk within 20 minutes of eating it, I don’t have any effects. I just assumed the exercise was affecting my blood sugar / insulin and managing things more effectively.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
My older thinking was that anything you ate preworkout would take a while to digest, and so your workout ‘fuel’ as it were would come from what you had ingested earlier in the day. SOmething with straight simple sugars (ie. a soda, or piece of candy) would produce a nice spike, but then you’d suffer the sugar crash (I remember an old BBing mag where a pro talked about how he couldn’t have sugar right before training or it just killed his session). Maybe it’s the particular source that is used in the SWF or the FINiBARs, but I can seriously down a large amount of carbs (120g!)) about 20 mins before training and I just power through some seriously intense sessions… and to be honest, when the FINiBARs first came out, my training partner Corey was using them, and going on and on about how great they were, but I figured it was marketing BS. Now I’ll sing the praises of Rice Oligodextrins to anyone who’ll listen -lol.
S[/quote]
Interesting… Do you change the amount (120 grams) of PreWO carbs when your in a fat loss fase?
