i have a few vids up in my youtube account where i’m doing bent over rows with 405 and 425. talk about getting raked over the coals by the internet trolls. i think my form is pretty damn good with that weight. it’s the best movement for improving my control on the decent of my bench. i feel that ones bent over row should be close to their bench press. it creates a total package.
[quote]deadlift655 wrote:
I did not realize it had been beaten to death. I posted a comment on it in another thread. I have seen guys throw the weight up like him and have very little to show for it. For every person it works well for, there is another it does nothing for, unless he plans to compete in an event that tests that kind of DB row.
For instance, I know someone who used to row the 140’s for 8-10 like that, who could not bench 315 or probably even 300. That seems like quite an imbalance. I have also heard of “big” guys doing 200 lbs on db rows. The only other lift they were proud of was their leg press. See a connection here. [/quote]
Yea there are plenty of guys who are using crap form and getting nowhere, that’s clearly not the case here though. Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not advocating poor form. I’m using pretty strict form myself for the most part and it’s working nicely for me. The thing that annoys me is that whenever this video or something similar comes up there are usually people who complain about the form but very few who ask why.
When someone twice my size is doing something I find weird you’d better believe I want to know his reasons. Maybe there’s something I could learn from this guy… But no, it’s like people are so eager to show their knowledge that they’d rather skip the questions and jump straight to criticizing. (I’m not saying that Brick was doing that, this is more my general thoughts than it is aimed at him.)
Where do these dumbbells come from? Jeez.
[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:
Isn’t it funny how all these big guys have “bad” form, and smaller guys have perfect form.
Hold on, maybe I’m onto something here… ;-)[/quote]
I honestly think this and an awful lot of the scientific studies out there are seriously fucking up a lot of people’s progress.
I honestly saw someone argue that people only need to use .25 grams of protein per pound to gain. He had a bunch of studies saying this and that. Totally refused to listen to logic & the fact that everyone with size eats a bunch more than that. Called it “broscience”. Tell ya what, I’ll take mustardonahotdogscience if it provides results.
(I am in no way implying that science is bad.)
[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Where do these dumbbells come from? Jeez.[/quote]
Pretty sure his brother gave him the piece he uses for the handle. You can see here he uses vise grips to hold the plates on. EliteFTS.com - 225x25 Kroc Row - YouTube
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I honestly think this and an awful lot of the scientific studies out there are seriously fucking up a lot of people’s progress.
I honestly saw someone argue that people only need to use .25 grams of protein per pound to gain. He had a bunch of studies saying this and that. Totally refused to listen to logic & the fact that everyone with size eats a bunch more than that. Called it “broscience”. Tell ya what, I’ll take mustardonahotdogscience if it provides results.
(I am in no way implying that science is bad.) [/quote]
Science can really screw people up. Like I’ve posted somewhere else, paralysis by analysis.
Some of the most frustrating people I’ve worked with are the ones with exercise science degrees who question absolutely everything (not a bad thing, but when its time to train its time to train!!), don’t want to do a particular technique for some reason which actually isn’t accurate (straight leg deads, good mornings are obviously BAD back exercises).
I’m a hardcore scientist, but this MUST be balanced against experience.
[quote]WS4JB wrote:
The scary thing is, every one of those was a fairly “clean” rep.[/quote]
You apparently don’t know how to do 1-arm DB row.
It’s primarily a lat exercise not a trap expertise as he is doing.
So no, these are not clean reps at all.
but, he is doing the exercise for traps and grip strength…so why does that matter?
the regular db row and the kroc row are different exercises to me and should be used accordingly to your goals…
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
WS4JB wrote:
The scary thing is, every one of those was a fairly “clean” rep.
You apparently don’t know how to do 1-arm DB row.
It’s primarily a lat exercise not a trap expertise as he is doing.
So no, these are not clean reps at all.
[/quote]
yeah, but have you seen his traps?!?!!
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=95738&tid=126
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
WS4JB wrote:
The scary thing is, every one of those was a fairly “clean” rep.
You apparently don’t know how to do 1-arm DB row.
It’s primarily a lat exercise not a trap expertise as he is doing.
So no, these are not clean reps at all.
[/quote]
Still the cleanest 300 lb DB row I’ve yet to see.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
This is what clean, strict form looks like in this exercise:
Bodybuilding Dumbbell Rows - YouTube [/quote]
While I agree that Kroc’s doing more of a hip extenion/t-spine rotation thing (which obviously works), I don’t know that your video is demonstrating correct form either. The elbow is not supposed to go past the torso. In fact, one of the most common dysfunctions I see with rowing form is shoulder hyperextension compensating for scapular retraction and depression.
[quote]WS4JB wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
WS4JB wrote:
The scary thing is, every one of those was a fairly “clean” rep.
You apparently don’t know how to do 1-arm DB row.
It’s primarily a lat exercise not a trap expertise as he is doing.
So no, these are not clean reps at all.
Still the cleanest 300 lb DB row I’ve yet to see.[/quote]
Truth
Anyone criticising this is retarded. The man is a beast and has crazy strength that maybe 1% of the population may ever reach. I do dumbell rows with some hip drive as well as t bars and bent rows. Helps move more weight as long as you are contracting your back muscles its still gonna stimulate the right muscles. He is rowing a dumbell that weighs more than him I doubt its possible to have ‘‘clean’’ form with that.
[quote]grettiron wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
WS4JB wrote:
The scary thing is, every one of those was a fairly “clean” rep.
You apparently don’t know how to do 1-arm DB row.
It’s primarily a lat exercise not a trap expertise as he is doing.
So no, these are not clean reps at all.
yeah, but have you seen his traps?!?!!
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=95738&tid=126
[/quote]
Looks like a great trap exercise to me!
I don’t care to argue this. Why can’t one engage in shoulder extension AND scapular retraction and depression at the same time? I do it all the time with my rows.
AND TO EVERYBODY… WHEN THE FUCK DID I SAY THAT WHAT HE DOES DOESN’T WORK FOR HIM?
I’VE SAID IT OVER AND OVER… IN THIS FORUM AND IN OTHER THREADS… THAT MANY OF THE GREATS HAVE USED LOOSE FORM… AND CLEAN FORM!!!
I, myself, use loose form in several exercises, curls, lateral raise variations, and to a lesser degree, DUMBBELL, CABLE, and BARBELL ROWS! YUP, dumbbell rows, the same exercise I’ve been discussing here. I can’t see how one can make progress in these exercises without using a SLIGHT hitch to get the weight going.
Many people have succeeded with unorthodox techniques. Kirk Karwoski squatted with a narrow stance, Glen Chabot benched with a medium grip, almost no arch, and with his elbows flared slightly out, and Anthony Clark benched with a reverse grip. I don’t think there would be any sense in going up to one of these guys in their heyday and saying, “hey, I got some tips for ya buddy; I’ll show ya how it’s done”. Actually, I think if you said that to Capt. Kirk or Glen in their heyday, you’d have a 25-pound plate chucked right at your dome!
Waylanderxxx, I disagree. But it’s opinion. I believe Dorian was the best bodybuilder that ever lived. He actually used looser form, explosiveness, and heaving earlier in his career on back exercises. He said he got better results when he got stricter with the form in rowing exercises. Anyway, he had to back off a bit on the jerky movement ever since his bicep tear.
[quote]wfifer wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
This is what clean, strict form looks like in this exercise:
While I agree that Kroc’s doing more of a hip extenion/t-spine rotation thing (which obviously works), I don’t know that your video is demonstrating correct form either. The elbow is not supposed to go past the torso. In fact, one of the most common dysfunctions I see with rowing form is shoulder hyperextension compensating for scapular retraction and depression.[/quote]
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I don’t care to argue this. Why can’t one engage in shoulder extension AND scapular retraction and depression at the same time? I do it all the time with my rows.
AND TO EVERYBODY… WHEN THE FUCK DID I SAY THAT WHAT HE DOES DOESN’T WORK FOR HIM?
I’VE SAID IT OVER AND OVER… IN THIS FORUM AND IN OTHER THREADS… THAT MANY OF THE GREATS HAVE USED LOOSE FORM… AND CLEAN FORM!!!
[/quote]
You never said specifically it doesn’t work for him, however your pissy little post about what ‘strict’ form should look like insinuated that this is how you should row.
You should have put your explanation above earlier for context, because you came across like all the other form police out there who bitch and moan about a little bit of body english, and that everything should be rigid and we should move like robots. This generally ignores the fact that the approximate movement will be working a significant amount of musculature that you want to target and subjecting it to high load.
I’ve come to the point where I don’t give a fuck how someone lifts a load; if they don’t get injured and are getting bigger in all the right places, who gives a shit.
I’ve never really seen db rows as a primary lat exercise, it doesn’t make sense. kind of like incline pressing for lower chest.
the db row is for back thickness. thickness = lower middle upper traps and rear delts
[quote]schultzie wrote:
I’ve never really seen db rows as a primary lat exercise, it doesn’t make sense. kind of like incline pressing for lower chest.
the db row is for back thickness. thickness = lower middle upper traps and rear delts[/quote]
Kroc does it to help lockout his deadlift, as do most of all the other lifters since he started improving on it.
NOT as a lat exercise, though looking at his back they must do something for him lol
OH YEAH, TOUGH GUY?!
ME SAYING, “THAT’S NOT CLEAN FORM”, IN RESPONSE TO SOMEONE SAYING THAT IT’S CLEAN FORM IS PISSY?!
“THAT’S NOT CLEAN FORM”
THAT’S POLICING?
FUCK YOU!
[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
I don’t care to argue this. Why can’t one engage in shoulder extension AND scapular retraction and depression at the same time? I do it all the time with my rows.
AND TO EVERYBODY… WHEN THE FUCK DID I SAY THAT WHAT HE DOES DOESN’T WORK FOR HIM?
I’VE SAID IT OVER AND OVER… IN THIS FORUM AND IN OTHER THREADS… THAT MANY OF THE GREATS HAVE USED LOOSE FORM… AND CLEAN FORM!!!
You never said specifically it doesn’t work for him, however your pissy little post about what ‘strict’ form should look like insinuated that this is how you should row.
You should have put your explanation above earlier for context, because you came across like all the other form police out there who bitch and moan about a little bit of body english, and that everything should be rigid and we should move like robots. This generally ignores the fact that the approximate movement will be working a significant amount of musculature that you want to target and subjecting it to high load.
I’ve come to the point where I don’t give a fuck how someone lifts a load; if they don’t get injured and are getting bigger in all the right places, who gives a shit. [/quote]
Speaking of policing, now I have to watch my speech around here, for fear of some tough guys putting me in my place. Right?
FUCK YOU!