Today’s flat bench
185 x 5
225 x 5
255 x 4
275 x 1
255 x 3
255 x 3
255 x 2
I also did incline dumbells, weighted dips and tri-ext with a dumbell.
I’ve PR’d 2 weeks in a row with 280, then 285 last week so this was a light week.
I’ll be going for 290 and 295 if I get 290 next Sunday which will be my 38th bday.
Hit 365 the other day. i know its not 300 but i dont care im pumped. 405 is going up soon.
Since I posted in December 07’ (see first page, 2nd post), my bench went down from 137.5 kg (303). Last week, I hit 140 kg (308 lbs)after having 4 really bad training cycles. Honestly, I’m perplexed although I think my increased upper back strength helped from heavy deads/squats over just benching.
I want to get 145 kg (319 lbs) next cycle. I need a goal for the end of the year. Maybe 341 or 353. Not sure yet.
Seems like a lot of people are really making a lot of progress. Good work guys.
[quote]Synthetickiller wrote:
. Honestly, I’m perplexed although I think my increased upper back strength helped from heavy deads/squats over just benching.
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Really smashing my back with rows and shrugs was the single best thing I ever did for my bench.
hey guys. i maxed today and got 285! good form; ass on bench/no bounce. would have passed at a meet! 10 pound PR
i weighed in at 195lbs soaking wet!
300 here i come
Update
Well, my current program had me doing 10 singles last week on bench. I did 255 for 10 singles and actually felt like it was a bit light. The only problem was I was working out by myself and while I don’t mind asking for 1 or 2 spots, asking for 10 seemed a bit too much. So while not that near my pr of 285, I still felt very good about doing all 10 singles! I have 6 more weeks before my next max so I am feeling pretty good about my chance at 300!
Benching 315 should be pretty attainable for almost anyone. I went from 295 to 365 with some generic “Put 50lbs on your bench in xxx weeks” workout. At the time I wasn’t doing anything below 8 reps and mostly worked to 12 rep sets. This was in college and just going heavy (2 to 5 reps) really helped me. At that point 365 was really heavy for me at 195lbs and everything hurt. I had already had reconstructive surgery on my shoulder and years later had both elbows done. After not touching much weight for years because of my elbows I’ve made some pretty good gains. After two or three workouts back to 275lbs. That was in Dec and I’m now at around 365 again. I am now 240 and feel like 400 should come pretty easy. I feel a hell of lot stronger than the last time I benched 365 and no joint issues.
I am a weekend warrior at best and not an expert but here are some of the things I now do differently:
Never go to failure. I think the mental part is crutial. Always leave the gym thinking you could have done more. Sometimes this means no PR. Tell yourself it was just an off day but you might have been able to get more anyway.
Map out specific increases in weight over several weeks. Mental again in that you don’t have to think about what you are going to and if you can get it. Just load the weight that’s on the sheet and do it. I think this is the real value of the generic muscle media 2000 bench workout. Just look at the chart and bench the weight.
I love doing heavy singles. I feel much less beat up. I do bench with bands, lightened band floor press, 2 board presses with bands, and high rep DB press once and awhile. I do like to do a dynamic effort workout now and again but only get to lift a couple times a week so dynamic stuff usually gets cut.
For assistance I like close grip bench up to a heavy single and then a db tri exercise. JM presses are also a good bar exercise but I like to go heavy on the bar and these don’t feel safe to me at heavy weights.
For DBs I do tate presses or WSB DB extensions that are really more of a press.
I’ll do lats next. I absolutly love chest sup rows. Load up a buch of weight and don’t worry about coming up off the bench. I do sets of around 6 and have to grunt out every rep. Makes my back feel like granite. I also do pull-ups even though I hate them and don’t think they work all that well. Just embarassing not being able to rip out a bunch of pullup. I do them from suspended rolling thunder handles to make them even more hateful. I hate Lat PDs and seated rows. Completly worthless. I don’t like DB rows but do them occasionally. Have a t-bar row but don’t like them.
Upper back/delts next. In my mind there are only three exercises worth doing here. H-rolls, seated DB cleans, and kettlebell military press. Hold the KBs with the bell pointing straight up. Incredible strain on your whole upper back and grip. These are all stabilizers and will not be with heavy weight. For me these are the most important exercises becuase of ripped up shoulders. I now have no pain and credit these for rapid painfree gains in my BP. Never really had much luck with heavy overhead presses but I do like to do them when I get the caveman urge.
[quote]jtg987 wrote:
fuck yes just smashed the 300lbs barrier, last week i got 135kg for one rep, tonight got 140kg for one rep. seemed easier than 135kg, guess i had a great set up. im now gunna relax a little on maxing, next goal 120kg for reps on incline bench[/quote]
Focusing on inclines really f’d up my flat bench. I was stuck at 295 is HS and got sick of doing flat bench so I switched to incline. Got up to 275 pretty quick but my flat bench dropped to 275. really weird and didn’t come back for awhile.
Same thing happened when I switched to DBs for awhile in College. That was probably not enough tri work though.
Hi dhickey,
Good to see someone who has used the MM2K program with decent results. I have a question though: how many cycles of the program did you use? Or did you use other programs in conjunction with this?
I recently finished up my first cycle of the program - I did the 2nd version that doesn’t go above 6 reps for the bench - and gained 20kg from 100 to 120kg. Mind you, around late 2004 I had a previous max of 137.5kg @ 95kg bw. These days I hover around 85-86kg bw. One might argue that a degree of muscle memory was involved, but that was almost 4 yrs ago and at one stage I quit the gym altogether and went about 6mths without touching a weight, and I’m very happy nontheless with the gain (or re-gain if you want to call it that).
After completing the program I just cruised for 3 weeks and I’m giving it a 2nd run, currently in the 2nd week and so far so good, hopefully 140kg aka the big 3 plates will fall soon! I basically followed the bodypart split as laid out, but substituted exercises as necessary since I train at home and don’t have a legpress or hamstring curl machine etc. Since the exercises for other bodyparts involved 3 sets, I pyramid the weight up and shot for a rep record on the last set. Since most of the exercises called for 6-8 reps per set, if I got 10 reps on the last set, I increased the weight next workout.
Back in '04, I remember having consistent nagging shoulder pain when benching, especially when working heavy. Without realising it, I did waaaay too much pressing in relation to rowing type movements. I was a westside boy doing heavy ME singles followed by closegrips for 3 to 5reps then supplementary work. I would do some halfassed rear laterals with 5kg at the end if I could be stuffed which was probably 50% of the time. My rowing strength was subpar and since my fulltime job was in front of a computer all day, I paid the price of shoulder pain and over time the constant frustration led me to quit the gym.
Now that I’m working my way back up to my previous poundages (and hopefully more) I’m working hard to drive up my rowing poundages and I do rotator work and facepulls like crazy. I stick with a fairly light weight and make sure I can bang out 15 to 20 reps with good form. My shoulder pain has gone, my posture has improved and my back is getting thicker.
Moral of the story: don’t slack on the rowing movements and rotator work, a few light sets done consistently is a small price to pay to avoid the stagnation that shoulder problems will cause!
[quote]dan81 wrote:
Hi dhickey,
Good to see someone who has used the MM2K program with decent results. I have a question though: how many cycles of the program did you use? Or did you use other programs in conjunction with this?
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I only did it once because I felt so beat up. At the time a attributed this going heavy so I went back to sets of 8 to 12. This was 10 years ago and I didn’t know what I was doing. There are a lot of things that are just not optimal in this workout.
Pressing movements don’t change and are too frequent. Dips are one of my favorite exercises to do but I don’t feel that they do anything for my bench. I was able to add a ton of weight to these to get to 5 reps. This may have contributed to my shoulder and elbow discomfort.
I wouldn’t do this workout again as I beleive there are much better options. WSB concepts are working for me now even though I am only able to lift on the weekend most of the time.
Take from MM2K -
Chart out reasonable goal and weights for a period of time. Don’t think about the weight. Don’t look at your last workout. Just put the weight on bar and do it.
Take from WSB -
Heavy singles on main exercise. Pick three or 4 and rotate them. This is just as much mental as anything. Getting to max out every week is just plain fun. That’s why you have to rotate exercises.
1 to 6 rep max on BB tri Excersize.
3 to 4 sets of DB Tri Excersize. I like to go as heavy as my form will allow.
3 to 4 sets of Rows or Pull-ups. I like to go heavy.
3 to 4 sets of Upper back/Delts. These are the key in my mind. Rotate H-rolls, seated DB cleans, and the reverse KB military press I mentioned above. These are in the 8 to 12 rep range and form should be perfect with a moderate tempo. Go heavy on these and you are asking for trouble in my opinion.
Although on paper the pressing movements don’t change and are too frequent, for me, judging by the first cycle of the program, they helped. I followed as closely as possible the assistance exercises meaning flat DB presses then shoulders then tri extensions on the odd numbered bench workouts.
For shoulders, I substituted side laterals as written in the program with standing BB military press. For me, my sticking point used to be a couple of inches off my chest (as with most raw lifters) and I’ve noticed that as I’ve gradually gotten stronger on those DB flat bench and militarys, I get better initial drive off my chest (benching touch n go) and my sticking point has actually moved up by about 1.5-2 inches.
Also, my shoulder strength is lagging, both in hypertrophy of delts and strength as measured by military press, compared to my bench. When I hit the 120kg bench, my military press was 52.5kg for 8 reps strict, so going by that my 1RM military I estimate would be around 60 to 65kg. This is barely 50% of my bench and unless I’m mistaken, this is lagging. With dips on the even numbered bench workouts, I’ve been able to increase my poundages on these too. At the top of the movement, I don’t lock completely out - just keep a slight bend in the elbow - lesson learned from past elbow strain. In the 2nd cycle of this program, I’m keeping the same exercises and the poundages are still going up. If it’s working, keep doing it imo.
Also, I haven’t been following the rep ranges strictly as laid out for the assistance work - for flat DB bench and militarys, I use the first 2 sets as warmup with say 60% then 80% of the final set weight then I go all out on the last set and aim for 8 reps aka HIT style without the super slow tempo. If I hit 10 or more reps on the last set I increase the final set weight next w/o.
For dips, I aimed for 6 reps and only increased weight if I got 8 or more on the final set. For tri extensions I go fairly light and aim for 12 to 15, only increasing weight if I could get 15 or more on the final set. I’m using neutral grip DB tri extensions as this exercise stopped my elbow issues when I started doing them. When I slack on these while keeping up the heavy benching, I’ve noticed that after a few weeks, the elbow soreness creeps back - these are a keeper. Since I don’t stick at the top, I’m keeping the intensity low on this movement. If one day my pec and delt strength gets to the point where I need to grind the lockout, I’ll re-evaluate the exercise selection and order.
It’s funny that WSB template you drew up dhickey, because that’s almost exactly my bench workouts looked like back a few yrs ago when I was doing Westside. I did my ME movements for a single, then CG or JM press for assistance, then tri extensions then rows then rear delts for supplementary. Looking back, I realise now that I assessed my weaknesses incorrectly (too much tricep work when I stuck at the bottom 1/3 on the bench).
Combine that with no rotator work, I ended up spinning my wheels. Failure on my part 100%. I should have been working like a demon to bring up my shoulder strength especially early on in my workouts, not tagging on some halfassed rear laterals (if I even could be bothered) at the end.
I’ll start updating my progress in this thread, only in the 2nd week of the program so it’s early days.
This is a good thread, keep up the discussion guys.
[quote]dan81 wrote:
For shoulders, I substituted side laterals as written in the program with standing BB military press. For me, my sticking point used to be a couple of inches off my chest (as with most raw lifters) and I’ve noticed that as I’ve gradually gotten stronger on those DB flat bench and militarys, I get better initial drive off my chest (benching touch n go) and my sticking point has actually moved up by about 1.5-2 inches.
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Same thing happened to me.
[quote]dan81 wrote:
Also, my shoulder strength is lagging, both in hypertrophy of delts and strength as measured by military press, compared to my bench. When I hit the 120kg bench, my military press was 52.5kg for 8 reps strict, so going by that my 1RM military I estimate would be around 60 to 65kg. This is barely 50% of my bench and unless I’m mistaken, this is lagging. With dips on the even numbered bench workouts, I’ve been able to increase my poundages on these too. At the top of the movement, I don’t lock completely out - just keep a slight bend in the elbow - lesson learned from past elbow strain. In the 2nd cycle of this program, I’m keeping the same exercises and the poundages are still going up. If it’s working, keep doing it imo.
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Where do you fail on OH press. I used to think my shoulders were lacking too, but I have discovered that my tris are very week in this plane of motion. I can pretty much launch anything to right above my head and then I get stuck. Same thing with bench. I didn’t suspect my tris were the problem because stuff like dips and decline close grip were always strong. I don’t get any carry over to bench working my tris like this. I started doing more things that target the area right around my elbow…Smith machine JM press, tates press…ect…and both my bench and overhead exploded. I don’t know if this is your weakness too, but it is some food for thought.
Another thing that I found very effective is floor press lockouts. The pins in my rack at the lowest point are still a little too high, so I lie on a couple of plates to raise my body.
Update - yesterday I was on decline, I did 4 sets of 4 @ 265 - felt really good about this. Again, I know decline is easier than flat but moving 265 16 times had me pretty pumped up. It will fall eventually!
Thats interesting. I haven’t had much success with decline bench even as an accessory movement, but I’m generaly a tri-delt type of bencher with not much chest involvement.
I have always figured my decline is so much stronger because of the length of my arms. At 6’3" I have long arms even for my height. Obviously this translates to having to move the weight a long ways when doing bench. When I am on decline the distance is decreased leading to a much stronger lift for me. I guess I have always assumed this is the same for everyone.
[quote]slazeagle wrote:
I have always figured my decline is so much stronger because of the length of my arms. At 6’3" I have long arms even for my height. Obviously this translates to having to move the weight a long ways when doing bench. When I am on decline the distance is decreased leading to a much stronger lift for me. I guess I have always assumed this is the same for everyone.[/quote]
It is the same for everyone. Decline is simply a shorter ROM. This is why powerlifters arch their backs, it essentially creates a decline bench where the touching point is much higher than the point at which the shoulder articulate.
[quote]dan81 wrote:
Although on paper the pressing movements don’t change and are too frequent, for me, judging by the first cycle of the program, they helped. [/quote]
If it’s working for you, by all means keep doing it. It worked for me but caused other issues mainly because of bad shoulders. One shoulder and both elbows have been worked on so I feel like I have a pretty good sense of what exercises are good for shoulder and elbow health. I guess you could say that I am more sensitive to harmful exercises. If you are doing DB Tri extensions, I would make them more of a press than an extension. Take a peek at some of the WSB videos on youtube. Some may say this is cheating but your elbows will thank you and you can go heavy.
Excellent idea. side laterals, front raises, and reverse flys are subpar exercises in my mind. Unnecessary stress on the elbows and can cause impingements in the shoulder. I am not sure if I should be doing overhead presses or not but I really like them and it hasn’t been an issue yet. If you have access to KBs you should try doing military presses with them. Do them with the bell part facing the ceiling and you will work your entire back and grip. I can only do 35s in this fashion. Another good one is to use a single KB and use both hands to grab either side of the handle. The KB will be upside down on this one as well. Press from the top of your chest/face to overhead. Great for front delts if you need it.
[quote]
Also, my shoulder strength is lagging, both in hypertrophy of delts and strength as measured by military press, compared to my bench. [/quote]
If your military press stalls, try the exercises above, H-rolls, and/or seated DB or KB cleans.
[quote]
For dips, I aimed for 6 reps and only increased weight if I got 8 or more on the final set. [/quote]
Do you feel like these help your bench? I have put a focus on these in past and it never worked for me. I got really strong on dips but not on anything else. One of my favorite exercises so I may try them again at some point. My elbows don’t like these much either for some reason.
If you make these more a press you can go heavy without elbow pain. Basically keep the neutral grip, bring them down to the top of your shoulders and then tip them back so that one “bell” is resting on your shoulder and the other is on the bench with your knuckles also facing the bench. During the consentric phase, pull your elbows forward into a pressing motion while you extend. Kind of a half press/half extension. Will allow you to go heavy and will save your elbows. Don’t be afraid of the burning sensation in the lower tricep. It may feel like the elbow, but this is the sensation you are looking for. Just like JM pressess if done correctly.
The trick is to get the triceps to fire early in bottom portion of the lift. Going low on the chest, pushing the bar towards your feet, and using exercised that hit the bottom of the tris will all help. I have put a focus on back and shoulders for the first time and it seems to be paying off.
Again, I’m no expert but I’ve tried a lot of things to minimize trauma to my shoulders and elbows. Hopefully this will help others to avoid the issues I had. I would be interested in hearing from others that have had issues as well and what has worked for them.
Pemdas, I’m the same for military press, I can get good drive to just above my head explosively, but then I grind the next few inches then lockout fast (assuming a heavy-ish weight of course). My military grip is about 2 inches from the smooth part of the bar, much narrower than my regular bench grip which is pinkly on rings.
I would have never expected my tris to be a problem…because back when my 1RM was 137.5kg, I could CG press (index on smooth) around 120kg for 2 to 3, and also back then my regular bench grip back then was quite close too, with index 2 to 2.5 inches from smooth. When you say that your bench and OH press exploded, exactly how much increase did you get, just out of curiosity?
When I do my militarys, I don’t lock completely out each rep except the last one. I probably do the bottom 2/3 of the movement then let it come back down.
Dhickey, yes I plan to keep using the same exercises until I stop to see progress. If it means I can stay with a given movement for as long as 6 mths or as short as 3 wks so be it. I train at home and dont have KBs unfortunately, but I do have adjustable DBs. When the military stalls, my plan is to either substitute with standing DB press, standing BTN press or BB clean and press. Most likely DB press or BTN press since clean n press is very demanding and cleans in the past have aggravated my wrists. Alternatively, I could go lighter on CnP so I can bastardize the clean movement into a pseudo cheated reverse curl to save my wrists…
With dips, well it’s hard to say conclusively if they definitely help since I’ve changes several exercises doing this MM2K program. I’ve managed to stave off any elbow problems and I’m improving week to week on dip poundages so I can definitely say they aren’t hindering my bench : ) My bench is on the improve atm and I plan to keep these in for as long as I see continued progress. FWIW The dip handles I use attach to the side of the safety rails of my rack, they are parallel and not very wide at all, probably only marginally wider than my shoulder width. I can get a decent forward lean on the movement and I “feel” it hits my chest and tris very hard.
What’s a H-roll btw? I’ve never heard of that one. And I’ll definitely give those rolling extensions a try. I’ve been basically de-prioritising my tris lately, and this discussion has got me thinking that it’s probably time to change that.
[quote]Uber N3wb wrote:
I remember when I hit 300, it was cool for like a day and then I was off to a new max. If your at 265+ one well placed bench program can take you to 300. It dosent have to be 6 months or a year.
If anyone has the time I might suggest a program, mostly because I love typeing programs…
10 weeks long, 2 bench workouts per week. Start off with 100lbs under your bench max, do 1 set to failure, we are talking all out max reps realy pushing your self.
So for a 275 bencher it would look like this
Bench: 175x?
Shoulderpress: 10rm realy pushing your self
Close grip: 10rm realy pushing your self
Bench: 180x?
Different kind of shoulderpress: 10rm +5-10lbs
Dips: 10rm realy pushing your self
2-3 workouts a week of back, traps, rear delts, rotator cuffs and hammer curls always useing more weight.
Basicaly repeat this while adding 5lbs to your bench set every workout, and adding 5-10lbs to your shoulderpress, dips and close grip every workout. I would think this could easily turn your 1rm into a 3rm which would = a 300lb bench.
Try to gain 10-20lbs over the 10 weeks and keep squat work to a minimum, couple sets of 10 to maintain strength and maybe pack on some mass, no need to put any unneeded stress on the CNS.
Just a thought.
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I put about 100lbs on my bench since I wrote this, I probably had 370 tops, where as the day after tommorow Im gonna be going for 8-10 reps with 405 (bouncing off my chest, what ever) And Im still training the same way.
Still picking a few good exercises, starting with a weight I can get for 10-12 reps, adding a little weight every workout progressivley until I peak, and then starting over but doing things slightly different.
Any one else who was a origional poster on the thread care to speak of their bench progress?
[quote]dan81 wrote:
Pemdas, I’m the same for military press, I can get good drive to just above my head explosively, but then I grind the next few inches then lockout fast (assuming a heavy-ish weight of course). My military grip is about 2 inches from the smooth part of the bar, much narrower than my regular bench grip which is pinkly on rings.
I would have never expected my tris to be a problem…because back when my 1RM was 137.5kg, I could CG press (index on smooth) around 120kg for 2 to 3, and also back then my regular bench grip back then was quite close too, with index 2 to 2.5 inches from smooth. When you say that your bench and OH press exploded, exactly how much increase did you get, just out of curiosity?
As I said before my weakness was in one particular direction, or at least it was exemplified in one direction.
All of this happened in the same month. Also, I haven’t gained weight in like 9 months, so food intake had nothing to do with it.
Bench 285 - 300. I was stuck at 285 for like 2 months and while 15lbs doesn’t seem like a lot, I can’t remember seeing that much progress in a month on bench in long time, so to me that is exploding.
OH 135x5 to 150x5. I never really max out on OH press.
Incline 215 to 235
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