23 and Broken? Depressing MRI Results

Training Injuries
1

So a couple of days ago I got my results back from an MRI. I don’t know what to make of it. I had my brother in law who is a chiropractor explain everything to be and all I got from it was never put anything heavy on my back or pick up anything heavy…ever… As of right now in all honesty all I feel is very mild sciatica but I’m more worried about how I will feel 20 40 years from now. What I’m asking is are all major compound exercises for back and legs out the question for me? Any and all help is greatly appreciated, thank you.

Techniques: T1, STIR and T2-weighted sagittal, T1 and T2-weighted axial sequences of lumbar spine.

Findings: Mild congenital lumbar spine canal stenosis. The lumbar vertebae are nomal in signal, stature and alignment. The conus medullaris is normal.

At L5-S1, There is severe disc space narrowing with disc desiccation. There is a disc bulge. There is also a large central disc herniation with resultant severe spinal canal stenosis. There is a borderline or mild compression of the left S1 nerve root. There is mild to moderate bilateral neural canal stenosis.

At L1-L2, and L2-L3, the discs are normal.

At L3-L4, and L4-L5, there is a very mild disc bulge, respectively. There is minimal neural canal stenosis bilaterally at those levels.

Extraspinal findings: No significant abnormalities noted.

Impression: Severe disc space narrowing with disc desiccation at L5-S1 with a disc bulge and a large size central disc herniation with resultant severe canal stenosis and borderline or mild compression of the left S1 nerve root. No other significant abnormality is noted. Mild congenital lumbar spinal stenosis.

2

[quote]TheCONQ516 wrote:
So a couple of days ago I got my results back from an MRI. I don’t know what to make of it. I had my brother in law who is a chiropractor explain everything to be and all I got from it was never put anything heavy on my back or pick up anything heavy…ever… As of right now in all honesty all I feel is very mild sciatica but I’m more worried about how I will feel 20 40 years from now. What I’m asking is are all major compound exercises for back and legs out the question for me? Any and all help is greatly appreciated, thank you.

Techniques: T1, STIR and T2-weighted sagittal, T1 and T2-weighted axial sequences of lumbar spine.

Findings: Mild congenital lumbar spine canal stenosis. The lumbar vertebae are nomal in signal, stature and alignment. The conus medullaris is normal.

At L5-S1, There is severe disc space narrowing with disc desiccation. There is a disc bulge. There is also a large central disc herniation with resultant severe spinal canal stenosis. There is a borderline or mild compression of the left S1 nerve root. There is mild to moderate bilateral neural canal stenosis.

At L1-L2, and L2-L3, the discs are normal.

At L3-L4, and L4-L5, there is a very mild disc bulge, respectively. There is minimal neural canal stenosis bilaterally at those levels.

Extraspinal findings: No significant abnormalities noted.

Impression: Severe disc space narrowing with disc desiccation at L5-S1 with a disc bulge and a large size central disc herniation with resultant severe canal stenosis and borderline or mild compression of the left S1 nerve root. No other significant abnormality is noted. Mild congenital lumbar spinal stenosis.[/quote]

Bro, I feel for you but before jumping in a wheelchair and calling it game, get another orthopedic to look at it. I assume you already spoke to one about this?

And if it’s going to effect your lifting or quality of life, work around it. There’s a boatload of guys who can no longer deadlift the house but still look massive. And if a 500 lb squat isn’t in your future, big deal!

What caused you to have the MRI in the first place?

3

I’ll be having orthopedic look at me soon I’m just waiting for a letter telling me when my appointment is. The reason I got the MRI was because I just felt like seeing if it was okay for me to push myself hard again in the gym since I’ve been cruising along for the last year. I started getting sciatic pain down my left glute and leg and it got pretty bad pretty quick so I went to a chiro and a pt and now I’m feeling great but up to this point I never had an MRI done so before I went hard again I wanted to make sure it wasn’t a bad idea. There was no specific moment or anything where I can say this all happened I might have had this for years without knowing it.

4

[quote]TheCONQ516 wrote:
I’ll be having orthopedic look at me soon I’m just waiting for a letter telling me when my appointment is. The reason I got the MRI was because I just felt like seeing if it was okay for me to push myself hard again in the gym since I’ve been cruising along for the last year. I started getting sciatic pain down my left glute and leg and it got pretty bad pretty quick so I went to a chiro and a pt and now I’m feeling great but up to this point I never had an MRI done so before I went hard again I wanted to make sure it wasn’t a bad idea. There was no specific moment or anything where I can say this all happened I might have had this for years without knowing it. [/quote]

I think you can relax for the time being. See what the Doc says and talk to some guys here about your pain. There are some smart dudes here that have been around the block. Repost in this forum and keep it brief, you’ll get more responses with less verbiage.

BTW, I don’t think anyone gets an “A” when they have an MRI of the spine, just my opinion.

5

I’d encourage you to find Dave Tate’s full list of injuries. He’s been through some super insane stuff and he’s still training! I know it may seem bleak at this point but you’ll find a way to do what you need to in order to accomplish the things you want. Try and be hopefully, find that list, and focus on the things you can control now like attitude, mindset, nutrition etc.

6

Most athletes have all kinds of herniations and bulges and have no pain and no problem training, or are able to train around it. It shouldn’t have to hold you back.

50% percent of normal healthy people without back pain have disc abnormalities including herniations, dessication, bulges, as well as areas of stenosis.

So welcome to the human race. Many of your training buddies probably would have just as ugly-looking MRIs if they went to take them.

I would recommend that you get hold of the books by Stuart McGill. He explains all this very well and discusses the correct ways to lift without injuring the back. He also discusses “nerve flossing”, a treatment for sciatica that is often quite effective.

7

I think you are greatly over reacting. I was forced to leave the military due to back issues very close to your. I ruptured my L4-L5 and L5-S1 Discs. L3-L4 has a tear completely around the disc where it began bulging so bad. I had siatic nerve impingment from all of this that caused my right leg from glute to my pinky toe to become on fucking fire any time I sat longer than 5 minutes.

Once I was released I started reading articles about how Messed up Louis Simmons of Westsides back was and how he fixed it. Once I started training my core specifically and heavy and started to increase my bodyweight and muscle mass around the area I became more and more pain free up to where now I almost never have a problem in the slightest.

I have since Squat and Deadlifted well into the 500s and have used 700+ yoke in competition and am fine. So before you decide you can’t do anything except water aerobics maybe you should try Trying.

8

It’s very simple: At this point, your MRI and spinal condition have not been fully evaluated. Thus, the prudent course of action is, no heavy lifting (involving axial loading) until your orthopod give you his/her professional opinion regarding the risks of doing so.

9

Ok, I have been a long time follower of this site but have never commented on anything because these dudes are intimidatingly strong. However, I would like to share my story with you to see if it might change your outlook. I began to experience similar pain when I was in my 20’s. I was in medical school and planning on a career in neurosurgery.

I got an MRI and this is verbatim what the MRI report said:

  1. Five Lumbar Segments
  2. Chronic spondylitic marrow changes to the endplate of L3-4
  3. Bone cyst to the posterior aspect of the L3 vertebral body. No cortical break.
  4. Disc degeneration at L2-3, L3-4, L4-5, and L5-S1 with loss of signal to the discs and mild decreased disc space height loss at L4-5 and especially at L5-S1.
  5. Acute lumbosacral angulation- developmental
  6. Grade I spondylolisthesis of L5 over S1 with probable bilateral spondylolysis but without marrow edema to the levels of pars defect
  7. Minimal annular bulging at L2-3 and L3-4 with minimal smooth effacement of the anterior thecal sac.
  8. Mild circumferential bulging at L4-5-only into the anterior epidural space. Mild bilateral neural foraminal encroachment
  9. Broad circumferential bulgint at L5-S1. Again into the anterior epidural space, but there is bilateral neural foraminal encroachment from this circumferential bulging of disc and also from the listhesis.
  10. No focal soft tissue disc protrusion

There is actually more there but I will spare you. After reading that I thought “how the fuck am I even walking?” I saw a surgeon who basically told me that I could never be either a neurosurgeon or an orthopaedic surgeon because of the physical demands. I declined surgery because I didn’t ahve the time or the money.

This news set me back emotionally, and I had off and on pain throughout the rest of medical school especially if I had to stand for prolonged periods of time. It would go down my leg and if I had to assist on a surgery lasting longer than a few hours I would have to sleep for an hour in my car until the pain subsided enough for me to drive home. But to hell if I wasn’t finishing what I started. I ended up graduating and going into physical medicine and rehabilitation (best choice I have ever made-except maybe my marriage and awesome kids).

Eventually, I got fat and mushy which is something that I couldn’t live with any longer. Now I’ve got to say that when I started lifting before my back pain I didn’t have the internet for tips and was relying on other idiots at the local gym and I was an absolute disgrace. There were no squat racks only curl stations and my nutrition was closer to a supermodel than a strongman. If only I could go back in time and slap myself in the face.

Anyway, eventually I met someone who convinced me to try some real weightlifting and recommended a book Starting Strength by Rippetoe. At this point…Fuck it…I’m in…what do I have to lose? I’m turning into every other lard ass that I see in clinic asking for disability for his back. It wasn’t pretty(really probably still isn’t) but as my mobility improved and I could squat to depth my flare ups were less frequent. I added deadlifts and some olympic lifts…I thought: well I guess I’m not going to crumble under a weighted bar, this migh tbe ok.

Now I am ramping up on Wendler’s program and feeling like a man. I still get tweaks…but: a. who doesn’t? b. They don’t last long. c. I now rarely get any leg pain. d. I no longer see a limit to how much I can do in training.

I would echo the advice of everyone elso to get an expert opinion (and another one if you’re not sure) Consider a rehab doctor because they aren’t surgeons and will have a different perspective on your function. I would also add that just because you are having leg issues it doesn’t automatically imply that you have a spine problem (SI, pirformis,…). I hope you get better.

Don’t lose 7 years of training because a machine tells you that you are broken. The best things any of us can do (MRI or not) to maintain function is to lift with proper form (and heavy because heavy is awesome) and maintain good mobility and core stabilization. Get yourself looked at and get back to it with confidence. Hope this helps.

10

[quote]TheCONQ516 wrote:
So a couple of days ago I got my results back from an MRI. I don’t know what to make of it. [/quote]

O geez. I’ve had two MRIs done. The first one was because of radiating pain down my left arm and weakness to the point I could not hold a cup of coffee even. MRI showed narrowing of spaces. Their suggestion: cervical fusion at several points. I decided to get a second opinion from a trainer (oh and their PT exercises were total crap and didn’t seem to address any issue they said I had) who pointed out (within about 2 minutes of meeting him) that I had a hip issue, causing me to jut my head forward, thereby stretching the major nerve going to the arm. Fast forward one month – a few hip mobilizations and some repatterning and I was pain free and have been for a couple of years. Note that the cervical fusion they wanted to do would have ended my sports career. Period.

Second one was on my shoulder after a fall. It didn’t show much, so they said to ignore it. Fast forward to last June when I re-injured it. MRI then showed there was probably a rip in one of the rotator cuff muscles. Get on the table and … only one muscle was intact, everything else had ripped long ago. Five hours of surgery and a very grueling recovery. Had it been diagnosed right, the repair would have been a lot smaller. The surgeon then warned me that MRIs can be misleading and they can be very hard even for a professional to read right. Good advice that.

Point is that I am batting 1000 for MRI failures. The first nearly got me spinal surgery and the second pair missed a frikkin huge injury. Get another opinion or two.

– jj

11

So ya wow thanks for all the advise I appreciate it all. I’m definitely going to get another opinion or two and do all the proper work to keep my back as healthy as possible but I do feel good so I guess I shouldn’t treat myself as broken.

12

[quote]kilgoretrout007 wrote:
Ok, I have been a long time follower of this site but have never commented on anything because these dudes are intimidatingly strong. However, I would like to share my story with you to see if it might change your outlook. I began to experience similar pain when I was in my 20’s. I was in medical school and planning on a career in neurosurgery.

I got an MRI and this is verbatim what the MRI report said:

  1. Five Lumbar Segments
  2. Chronic spondylitic marrow changes to the endplate of L3-4
  3. Bone cyst to the posterior aspect of the L3 vertebral body. No cortical break.
  4. Disc degeneration at L2-3, L3-4, L4-5, and L5-S1 with loss of signal to the discs and mild decreased disc space height loss at L4-5 and especially at L5-S1.
  5. Acute lumbosacral angulation- developmental
  6. Grade I spondylolisthesis of L5 over S1 with probable bilateral spondylolysis but without marrow edema to the levels of pars defect
  7. Minimal annular bulging at L2-3 and L3-4 with minimal smooth effacement of the anterior thecal sac.
  8. Mild circumferential bulging at L4-5-only into the anterior epidural space. Mild bilateral neural foraminal encroachment
  9. Broad circumferential bulgint at L5-S1. Again into the anterior epidural space, but there is bilateral neural foraminal encroachment from this circumferential bulging of disc and also from the listhesis.
  10. No focal soft tissue disc protrusion

There is actually more there but I will spare you. After reading that I thought “how the fuck am I even walking?” I saw a surgeon who basically told me that I could never be either a neurosurgeon or an orthopaedic surgeon because of the physical demands. I declined surgery because I didn’t ahve the time or the money.

This news set me back emotionally, and I had off and on pain throughout the rest of medical school especially if I had to stand for prolonged periods of time. It would go down my leg and if I had to assist on a surgery lasting longer than a few hours I would have to sleep for an hour in my car until the pain subsided enough for me to drive home. But to hell if I wasn’t finishing what I started. I ended up graduating and going into physical medicine and rehabilitation (best choice I have ever made-except maybe my marriage and awesome kids).

Eventually, I got fat and mushy which is something that I couldn’t live with any longer. Now I’ve got to say that when I started lifting before my back pain I didn’t have the internet for tips and was relying on other idiots at the local gym and I was an absolute disgrace. There were no squat racks only curl stations and my nutrition was closer to a supermodel than a strongman. If only I could go back in time and slap myself in the face.

Anyway, eventually I met someone who convinced me to try some real weightlifting and recommended a book Starting Strength by Rippetoe. At this point…Fuck it…I’m in…what do I have to lose? I’m turning into every other lard ass that I see in clinic asking for disability for his back. It wasn’t pretty(really probably still isn’t) but as my mobility improved and I could squat to depth my flare ups were less frequent. I added deadlifts and some olympic lifts…I thought: well I guess I’m not going to crumble under a weighted bar, this migh tbe ok.

Now I am ramping up on Wendler’s program and feeling like a man. I still get tweaks…but: a. who doesn’t? b. They don’t last long. c. I now rarely get any leg pain. d. I no longer see a limit to how much I can do in training.

I would echo the advice of everyone elso to get an expert opinion (and another one if you’re not sure) Consider a rehab doctor because they aren’t surgeons and will have a different perspective on your function. I would also add that just because you are having leg issues it doesn’t automatically imply that you have a spine problem (SI, pirformis,…). I hope you get better.

Don’t lose 7 years of training because a machine tells you that you are broken. The best things any of us can do (MRI or not) to maintain function is to lift with proper form (and heavy because heavy is awesome) and maintain good mobility and core stabilization. Get yourself looked at and get back to it with confidence. Hope this helps.[/quote]

love this post,

lose weight, get strong, learn to activate your core prior to ANY lifting

13

[quote]jj-dude wrote:

[quote]TheCONQ516 wrote:
So a couple of days ago I got my results back from an MRI. I don’t know what to make of it. [/quote]

O geez. I’ve had two MRIs done. [/quote]

Just remembered something else. After my shoulder surgery my doctor (not at all the one that got the original diagnosis wrong) warned me that because the repair put things back in very slightly different locations, any subsequent MRIs would show I had no rotator cuff at all, so I shouldn’t panic and I emphatically should not let some doctor later tell me I need another repair. More to the point, MRIs are taken from very specific perspectives and if you are more than a bit outside average, this can make them worthless.

14

This is all great advice, and it is important to not have the initial reaction that the world is crashing down around you.

1 - not being able to dead lift and squat huge #s right away isn’t the worst thing that can happen - if you remember how upset you were about being injured right now, it should be easy to convince yourself to work on mobility and form.
2 - I have had back injuries before from overuse where my initial reaction was that it was broken or i had a serious disc injury - the best thing to do before reacting to any news is see a handful of DOCTORS (not chiropractors)
3 - whatever the injury is - give yourself time to heal and then work on just movements - then wait until you feel better - then wait some more - then start weights if you think you’ve been ready for some time. Rushing out of a back injury is the worst mistake you can make - much worse than your initial injury